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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

999 replies

foolonthehill · 04/05/2013 11:49

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
minkembra · 16/05/2013 16:14

the w word was last week. accompanied by i hope you die.

the lesbian rant was in response to me telling him that he can ask me a question but if i decline to answer there is nothing he can do to make me.

the CSA came up. he tried to plead poverty and that it was not fair on the dscs etc.

told him i was interested in his finances.

he basically threw all kinds of nonsense at me and i pretty much stuck to the matter in hand. the usual won't be able to afford to see the kids Hmm blah blah blah

no apology. just the usual i cannot help it if i get angry. i cannot change at my age. i cannot take the kids out if i am angry. (as if that us what he was thinking at the time)

so i told him not to talk to me in future and then he won't be angry. he is there to pick up his kids not to start arguments with me.

i told him he can explain to them they had none nothing to deserve what he did to them. as it a good thing to teach kids that when you have done something wrong you apologise. (well i tried)

on the whole i am a bit grr but i was assertive i made my point i countered all his nonsense and got a lot off my chest. plus the call will have cost him a small fortune Grin

obviously he won't change.

FairyFi · 16/05/2013 17:57

'I'm like a man' dontcha know! (so if I'm like a man, how does his interest in me fit into that?) and 'I'll die alone of cancer' (lovely, thanks).... these were just some of the beauties Mink that s EA!

this: he basically threw all kinds of nonsense at me this is exactly right, its nonsense. Mine speaks nonsense. Even when you stand and say everything completely rationally, and try every way you can to make yourself clear, like you did, and still irrational rubbish spews force, that EA!

He did it in front of the kids thats bad father behaviour and EA to them.

for you making your point regardless of his nonsense. and noting 'he won't change'! Hmm indeed

I wouldn't expect apologies from him tho Sad, that ain't the way it works sadly. he's got to do what he does. We apologise to them, at times when its necessary, so they can feel the difference.

love the rising both hands to stick fingers up Pony great childish gesture of non-acceptance and rebellion against it.

I did a lengthy post before that (seems to have gone up in MN smoke, and hadn't ctrl C'd Angry ).

...was basically to do a wave hello to all lovely ladies, and sending ((hugs)).

ME taking control of MY life, is ME taking control of mine, not HIS! still find that a shocker, have spent so long listening to my assertions for myself being turned into controls of him! I'll stop jumping eventually, like when someone keeps saying boo.

Great to hear you ranting Tis... keep at it Smile.

hope Match and mini match ((hugs)) and all who suffering along with LOs xx

thanks for kind words xxxx

minkembra · 16/05/2013 18:08

match you are not palming your kids off and you are actually entitled to expect your coparent to give you some time off. it is what normal people do.
obviously the reality of coparenting with a FW is That you put dcs first and don't always get the time off. but don't go feeling guilty for what time you do get. it is what would normally be expected it is part of the control that they do such a shit job of parenting they cannot be trusted with it.

ColinCaterpillar · 16/05/2013 18:30

Match, glad DD could talk to you. Reading yours and pony's posts, I'm sad that FWs are still FWs where their kids are concerned. Hope they are ok

mink what a charming rant! FW will be telling people I'm a lesbian too, which for someone with a PhD in gender studies is quite funny, I'm only bicurious at the moment.

Still decidedly eeyore like today, feels relentless. Really want him back and it's hit me that he isn't.

minkembra · 16/05/2013 19:10

your FW has A phd in gender studies!?!?!?

ColinCaterpillar · 16/05/2013 19:22

Oh yes. The irony.

TheSilveryPussycat · 16/05/2013 19:30

Am agog to know his thesis topic and conclusions Colin. Unless it is too identifying.

minkembra · 16/05/2013 19:40

lol Colin. i thought it bad enough that my racist sexist FW was his works equal ops officer. (after today i can add homophobic to that last. he is not great with mh issues either)

really though Colin.
is it know thine enemy?? or some kind of practical research 'gender relations of a sexist FW'

ColinCaterpillar · 16/05/2013 19:45

He's not interested in women's issues you won't be surprised to know and thinks feminism redundant

minkembra · 16/05/2013 19:54

redundant because women don't exist?

or because of the overflowing equality that we experience every fucking dayHmm

more likely because the overwhelming societal balance in favour of men suits him just fine.

i pointed out to FW he has 3 dds HE should be a feminist.

just as well you don't have kids with him Colin he'd be a shoo in for FFJ and those frothing loons in justice for men and boys.

ColinCaterpillar · 16/05/2013 19:57

Thinks the genders should be equal and that feminism too focused on women and should include men too.

Behind closed doors of course, balance in his favour is definitely fine because I was always secondary character, well more a prop in the FW Show.

Obviously being a cocklodger, he's happy for women to work.

butterflymeadow · 16/05/2013 20:50

My personal view is that the turn to gender studies rather than women's studies or feminism, accepting that the latter two are not synonymous, depoliticised things because of the emphasis on masculinity as well as well as breaking down the category 'woman' into multiple categories. I think it is perfectly possible to have a Phd in gender studies and accept prevailing power structures, whilst arguing men have a hard time because 'men' are not a unitary category either.

It is like the argument that there is a gender pay gap because women tend to do more of the childcare, your right-on gender studies person will point to the struggling single dad, never mind this struggling single dad is in the minority and not subject to the same stigma as single mothers, and likely paid more regardless.

Confused not sure where I was going with that. Probably that the phd in gender studies does not in itself mean a sympathy with feminism. But also, and here is the thing, your truly skilled FW will present himself as defending women's rights whilst doing his utmost through his actual behaviour to erode the career and professional chances of the woman closest to him.

Am not even going into the double-think FW employed to achieve this.

FairyFi · 16/05/2013 20:54

Gender Phd ... equal ops officer! added to the list of childrens teacher FW and MH advisor FW, and DHead Special Needs school FW, and most, importantly, fathers!...

TheSilveryPussycat · 16/05/2013 20:56

I assumed mine thought the same as me with regards to equality, being hippies in the 70's and all that. I took it for granted in the face of evidence to the contrary - yeah, wrong-footed by a cocklodger, like Colin was.

butterflymeadow · 16/05/2013 20:56

Oh mink don't. I can see the F4J thing happening

match I know it is different, but dd would choose one on one time with me over going out with FW, she really enjoys that time and so do I. But he is not her dad, so there is no issue with her staying with me whilst dc2 goes out with FW.

bountyicecream · 16/05/2013 21:08

Just logging my mini update and then I'll go back for a catch up next :) .....

So went to see the rental house yesterday. It is quite small and doesnt really have much storage space (but as I think about it I don't have much stuff anyway!!!) but there is a nice living room which is 4m by 4.5m, a little kitchen and 2 decent sized bedrooms.

I left feeling that it could be home for a while at least.

So went to see my DParents and my lovel Dad helped me measure out the main living space and I think there is comfotable enough room for a small dining table, a small sofa and DD's toys. Anyway we don't spend all that much time at home anyway. The biggest downside is that there's no garden, just a yard area but it is very near to a park. And it is next door to a livery yard so there are horses in fields all around.

Today I went into the estate agents and have rented it. I should be getting the keys in the start of June and hopefully I'll have the guts to move in shortly afterwards.

As I was driving in and sat in the estate agents my head was screaming to me 'what are you doing, what are you doing' and I felt sick. But I forced myself to go through with it and now a few hours later I feel relaxed and settled in the decision.

So I'm slowly realising that that seems to be the normal pattern for me. If I can fight through the no no no voice and sick feeling then once it's done I will feel at peace. So I'm hoping that knowledge will carry me through with the 'biggie' of actually going. ie I'm fairly confident that I will be thinking 'don't do it' and feeling sick but if i force myself through it then I know the peace and happiness will come.

Right, now I've off loaded that I'm off to find out about the rest of you!

butterflymeadow · 16/05/2013 21:12

That is really interesting silver, because I think sexism in the protest movements of the 1960s was one driver for the emergence of second wave feminism. I hadn't thought about the hippie movement

But yes, I made the mistake of thinking that because FW and I were in the same field, and that he talked the talk, he would be supportive of me and equality. I only slowly realised he wasn't. And without going into detail, I am also realising the extent he wasn't. The worst is that I work in a white, male middle class dominated field (and it is a certain type) and I was married to what I am surrounded by so I really do not know why I expected him to be different.

I will stop now because I am probably making no sense to anyone but myself! If that.

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 16/05/2013 21:13

DD says she wants to stay with me tomorrow night and Saturday. I asked her how she feels about ds being at FW's and not her. I'm being very careful to ask open questions ( teacher training/CP training paying off!) and she says she likes it just being me and her as we can have girls' time without any little boys interfering. Then reeled off a list of things we can do. So I don't think she will be jealous of ds being there-quite the opposite!
DS asks to go to FW's a lot as FW actually plays well with the stuff ds likes. I guess I will let him have his 1 night and day there unless he starts to tell me he is unhappy.

ponygirlcurtis · 16/05/2013 21:15

Wow bounty, well done - no messing around, fantastic. Grin Probably best - if you'd waited, that voice in your head might have gotten a little more persuasive. The fact you feel relaxed and settled now speaks volumes.

If you were in Scotland, I'd be able to help you out with some furniture. But you'll get it from somewhere, Freecycle is great for that kind of thing. The house sounds lovely with horses next to it, DD will love that!

Next step - freedom!!!!

ponygirlcurtis · 16/05/2013 21:17

That sounds like a good solution for this weekend, Match, your DD will have a lovely, restorative time with you. Hope I didn't upset you more earlier, sorry if I did, hard sometimes to not only see your own situation in front of you. Sad

butterflymeadow · 16/05/2013 21:17

bounty, the need to fight the no no voice is because you have been conditioned not to stand up to him and do things for yourself. Carrying through on important to you decisions even when you feel sick and you know there will be fall-out gives you strength to face the next stomach churning moment. And eventually, I think, the level of stomach churning gets less, I don't know, for me, it gradually has though I am still fighting to maintain every boundary I have set so far. FW.

butterflymeadow · 16/05/2013 21:19

Oh and my house is teeny too. But it is mine. Well done.

MatchsticksForMyEyes · 16/05/2013 21:20

No you didn't upset me pony. Sometimes I find it so hard to know what to do for the best. At least I have managed to clarify for dd wants a little more.

WinnieFosterTether · 16/05/2013 21:26

bounty well done! It sounds great and here's some Flowers to make up for the lack of garden.

ponygirlcurtis · 16/05/2013 21:27

I'm glad about that Match. And me too, me too. Smile