Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

pony It's the RL consequences that are holding me back. The finality of leaving. The fear of going it alone. And the biggest stress is that whatever decision I make not only affects me but also will change DDs life forever.

bounty I read about your FW catching up earlier and was just and then realised how similar to my FW he is regarding looks. FW 'only' dislikes my teeth but is pretty much obsessed with the rest of my body. A couple of years ago on our longest break he sent me an email when trying to Hoover me, I'd said 'you only think you want me for my arse but we both know its not going to stay the same, so let's save us both the hassle'. He replied something about it being my heart he loved, but he would enjoy my arse as long as it was there, though my heart is more important. I knew it was all shit. He's quite open about how important looks are now. He's very good looking himself, he whines he's never had a truly stunning girlfriend but I suspect he needs girls with low self esteem and can't handle really, really attractive girls for jealousy. But anyway, your FW is FW and it's always glaring to an outsider.

Get well pie

mink I particularly hate your FW today. Aaaaargh so vile. There are no words.

I need to give serious consideration to changing my number. Switched it off and had a lovely weekend with my friend. Got several messages today. FW claims to want to meet, started off saying he missed me, but then ended up saying he left because of me and if I change, be less angry etc. he will come back. Unfortunately I replied, 'no you left because you were shagging OW'. His reply - 'you always think the worst of me'. Er yeah, wonder why you FW! He says can we talk face to face and go to a hotel tomorrow night. I definitely don't want to have sex with him. I don't want to see him but I do sort of want to draw a line under it all but there's no reason to. I'm worried I will weaken and I don't understand why I would feel obligated to meet him. I am now posting here thinking I'm not even being EA, I am just consistently going back for more even though I know what will happen. He will attempt to make me responsible for everything.

Charlotte I think its worth saying somethng more than its over, if you are feeling that something needs to be said whilst he's away (which I completely get!).

Like, its over and you do not want to discuss it be hoovered again and for the dcs benefits some boundaries must be agreed about not discussing things in front of them, like letting you live your separate life, no name-calling, threats, intimidation, or whateveryou feel is are suitable boundaries for your situation? Which are things he should think about and agreed to over email, whilst he is away, and that you are no longer prepared to discuss face to face, but in writing evidence of it all-

Disney Dad can't afford to be disney dad, so much stringing along.

bounty, the thing is, you can make the decision but you cannot ever know the consequences. All you can know is the reasons you made the decision at the time and believe they were right. You do not know the long term consequences of staying on you and DD either.

Night all, am going to bed, hoping tomorrow is a better day for all those who are struggling.

Now he's gone and I can see more clearly again, I suspect that the consequences of staying will be worse for DD.

Who would want a daughter growing up thinking that men will only love her if she's thin. Probably unhealthily thin as I have a low normal BMI. It has anorexia written all over it :(

colin yes it's so obvious when it's not you isn't it. So glad that you've had a lovely weekend with a friend. I'm not sure much will be gained by meeting up with him. It just kind of plays into his hands. And a hotel (presumably with bedrooms?!?) I think we know what he's thinking about .... If you decide you want to go then I would have a friend drop you off and come to collect you at a prearranged time (e.g. after an hour) so that there is no chance of you falling under his spell again (not that I think you will as you sound so strong)

Right I'm off to bed having unloaded some of my stress from the weekend.

Colin - he can claim you are responsible for everything till he's blue in the face. But who cares? Him saying it doesn't make it so. Don't go and meet him, please. You want to draw a line, and that would be fine with a normal relationship, but with an abusive one you are vulnerable and laying yourself open to him. In fact, maybe change your number and don't give him the new one.

bounty I can completely understand the fear of the unknown. It kept me paralysed and by default in the relationship for ages. I know that desire for a crystal ball, wanting to know which of two paths will work out the best for you. But like it's been said on here before - there is a kind of prediction. Stay, and things stay the same. Leave, and things will definitely be difficult, but might also be better. You know how things will be if you stay. Like this. The only chance of things being better is to leave.

G'night butterfly, sleep well. I am off now too, I think. DS2 beat his previous record last night and saw his total for number of times waking in one night shoot into the teens. I am shattered. Don't even know what I'm still doing up. Argh! Time for bed, zebedee. Night all. xx

Colin, don't go. Wanting closure is perfectly normal, but he will not give it to you. You will just get frustrated; he will do anything he can to draw you into conversation again. Swear black is white and the like. I thought your "no you left because you were shagging OW" was quite calm and firm and indisputable - but he twists and shapeshifts and escapes capture like trying to grasp mist. Leave it where it is. Changing your number is an excellent idea.

Fi, shall give that some thought - that sounds like good advice.

Nini, thinking of you.

A good evening had here

Tho I spent far too much time watching Angelina Jolie in a mediocre at best film. Why did I have to watch it all tho? It was rubbish!

Off to bed now. Hopefully tomorrow will be better - it looks like there's been muchos fwittery going on this evening.

Love to all x

Glad you had a good evening tis!

I am feeling utterly rubbish at the moment because I keep going over the million possible responses to his sol letter. I feel better when I am not in the house and out and about with dcs. But I need to concentrate on work and making it better somehow. So, I am just posting to get that off my chest. 'We' had difficulties, but it was me curled up on the floor, it was me who was utterly broken. What basis was that for anything? I feel like he damaged the very core of me.

Okay, deep breaths. Goals, goals, goals. Counting the steps forward. He is not here. He has (finally) gone to sol. He will never, ever get my pov or acknowledge how damaging things were, so I need to concentrate on the practicals. This is not going to take over my life.

All the best to everyone dealing with fuckwittery.

colin you're not going to get any closure in a hotel room.
Change your number.
!

bounty I was at a party yesterday and noted another couple there- they had two young dcs and he was getting food for them all. He made one 'joky' weight/ food comment to his dp after another, and also join fly offered her a crisp then snatched it away. I just thought FW!! FW!!!
I thought of you, and every other woman who's got a dp making her feel crap about herself and her body.

Join fly??? I meant Finally!!!!!

hi everyone is it ok to join in with you lovely ladies? havebeen lurking and just reading the thread has helped so much. these fw's are so insane to act like this they dont deserve even a fraction of our love or tears.

at the moment i am at the stage where it is finally sinking in that he doesnt actually love me and is not going to ever change or show me the level of respect that i deserve. the last incident a few weeks ago was the last straw i think. i just thought you know what thats the last time you call me a fat ugly cow. i cant hear being called fat again and the get your ugly face out of my face accompanied by the pushing and attacking. its the first time i tried to fight back physically and i know it makes it worse but something inside just snapped.

that was the first time i rang the police. he came back and had absolutely no remorse whatsoever it was all 'you put me in jail with criminals and drunks' no mate you did that. from then on thats kind of it. he has killed that last little bit of hope that you have that oh he will change etc etc. he wont.

at least before there were the nice inbetween periods now there isnt even that. plus he hates the fact i am stronger and is ramping up the abuse but i actually dont care now he is just like white noise in my ear.

he is living away in the week and coming at weekends to see kids. but is nasty when he is here unable to talk to me about basic day to day things without throwing a cuss in there.

i am just building my plan speaking to solicitors housing people etc etc and trying not to let on to him.

his latest fw thing is closing the joint account and giving me cash in hand for groceries. he wants to do this as i asked him for proof he is going to contact respect or another help organisation. i am refusing to sign the form he is tryig to bully me into it. tough.

luckily i have my own account and money but he should be responsible for providing for the kids at least

some days i feel very strong and empowered but when he is in the house i am tense and nervous waiting for the next thing and cant think straight. then when he goes i an so relieved that it takes one day to calm down and think and plan. plus only have access to a computer at work and dont want to spend money on a computer when i need it for possible living expenses and legal fees

wow it helps so much to get it out its so so draining living with these fw's and i can totally relate to bounty about the not knowing which way is up or down as they are nice one day and that feels so good that you clutch on to that but you know what it should be like that every day and with these men it will never be.

also mink thats insane of him to leave the kids but then i have had that that a trip to swimming or wherever was planned we are in the car he goes off on one and we have to come back home. they dont deserve the joy of children.

anyway turned into an essay but i hope that we can all find a better future together because noone deserves this shit

yummy sorry you find yourself needing this thread but welcome
sounds like you are doing well making a plan to get out although it does sound as though you need to be out asap.

or would it be possible to get an exclusion order -sorry i don't know much about these things- but I know some ladies who do and I am sure they will be along soon with sage advice.

stay safe and keep posting.

me. today. still furious.
I know I shouldn't even waste my emotions on him. I wouldn't if it were me but I am so angry for my dcs.

what he taught them is:
daddy does not really have very much time for them
their sister is more important than they are
punishing me is more important than they are
daddy is prepared to use them
that they cannot rely on daddy
daddy does not really love them.

they were mostly fine about it yesterday but in the long term I don't think it will have done a huge amount for their self esteem.

but how to bolster their self esteem without saying he is a twunt of the first order who does not deserve you. or to breath

anyway, my prediction is he will realise he has made an enormous fuck up and try to gaslight us into thinking it never happened in a few weeks/months time (whilst also blaming me). I can't guarantee to stop him from doing it again because even if I don't let them know he is coming if once they have seen him he walks off again the damage is done.

However, I am thinking if he does get in touch I may insist that he apologises to them as what does it teach them if he can behave like that and then just act like it never happened. then again chances of him apologising....

I am also half minded to send him the list above of what his behaviour has taught them.

did I mention

ahhhh. i feel better for that release of emoticons

tick tick tick bloody tick Mink soooo v for that. and plenty Let it roar Mink !!!

What a lovely supportive family guy 2013 to be fetching all their food for them, to the outside world and to all intents and purposes a genuinely lovely guy to be thinking of them like this and sooo helpful, but that scrutiny from the wiser eyes, WHAT A FW!!!!!

I did wonder about the 'join fly'! predictive grrr.... (not so bad as my profound shit tho still about that)

welcome Yummy sorry to hear of the abuses, and well done for your planning. If he's gonna bully you over the 'form' perhaps he could set up a dd for his 'contribution to the family' before you go to CSA and have it taken from him? at least you can tell him that will remove a little of the financial abuse from the growing list?

Might also be worth removing your name from debts, before they are run up, like credit cards? loans?

take care all

Sending out hugs and warmest wishes to Maggie in hopes that her life is going well in these early stages of clawing it back for herself and DC. Happy days and long peaceful nights hun xxxx

butter it's ok to think about sol's letter, and think of possible replies, you will have plenty of ideas, but do not act yet. Let it simmer, think it through but with no effort. (yes it can be done!)

What facts are in the letter? What is the letter asking you do in reply? Does it contain any proposals for settlement? (Sorry, can't remember which stage you are at)

min you are coming up with lots of possible responses, that's good, again I say, think to yourself Not Yet. I think you can rule out him apologising for a start.

As to kids, you can't do anything about his relnshp with them. But you can be a beacon of honestly, without badmouthing him. They will model you, and come to their own understanding of FW, based on their own interactions with him. And of course they will always love him, in a way that you don't, the love of children for their father.

butterfly - yy to FWs never understanding our pov or acknowledging how bad things were. I'm finding that really hard at the moment.

Hello yummy. Have you posted before? If not, it was someone with a very similar name! Welcome either way! If it was you, you're sounding a lot stronger now. You are doing the right thing!

mink - if only we could teach FWs decent behaviour... But you know that any attempt would be sabotaged and leave things just as bad if not worse. "Mummy wants me to apologise for getting upset at her abuse of me." That kind of thing is the most likely response, isn't it?

I write on here a lot, I think. I read somewhere the other day (in a book about narcissists) that feeling drained and unable to act is a type of anger. Weird, but makes sense.

I don't think I'm going to send the email just yet. Number of reasons. One being he's here for 2 weeks when he comes back... might be easier to send it when he goes away again, like someone suggested the other day. Don't like the idea of dtd but will raise suspicions instantly if I don't, so think I'm going to have to. Eeurgh.

you've got vag'itis Charlotte? oooo dear, that will need some antibiotics and at least a couple of weeks to clear up? Certainly no friction, as will aggravate it - if i've read you right? If not, gonna look pretty mad!

Validation/understanding comes from other directions, but definitely not from them.

Read any Modesty Blaise books Charlotte? They are get out of that thrillers, and she has had to DTD to keep surviving and get out. Though complete escapist hokum, MB has been a great role model for me.

Though in real life, tis sad to have to DTD with someone you used to love but no longer do. Keep safe.