Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

oops, x-posted with loads of people. Will go back and read.

bounty maybe view that lovely day as your swan song?
because him being arsey about your weight is in his words 'as good as it gets' with him being a FW.

charlotte yes under the circumstances it is ok by email. you do what you got to do.

oops, x-posted, awe bounty he's a shit. He won't change unless he acknowledges he has a problem and gets help for it. I'm not seeing any signs of that . . .and, even if he does go to counselling it still might not help (my nsdh just uses his counselling to explain why he's superior to me and has such insight into the human condition )

winnie good point- is asking for a read receipt too cold?

thanks all for support re. Fwittery. I had a bit of rant at dm and put phone down on her because she was not being supportive. then felt dreadful. so sent her an email saying I now it is boring but my life is quite hard just now. i need support. i did apologise about phone first though. anyway she had already left message on phone saying sorry. and i called back and apologised again. and she realised it is hard and he is a tw4t. phew. so much easier to sort things out with normal ppl!

winnie re counselling- yy. it is an indulgence of their entitlement. last thing an FW needs is validation.

mink I suppose the last 10 minutes (ie final conversation) was the only time today that re discussed anything not even remotely neutral. It was just a lovely day as we spent it together as a family, not me looking after DD and him floating around as and when it suited him. But that's classic EA 'give-you-what-you-want-for-a-bit-to-suck-you-back-in' hoovering isn't it. I'm going to talk it through with my only RL friend to know anything. At least I have 5 spaghetti-head free days now

By the way Mink I am too at your FW's behaviour today. I mean that 'looking after them for you' line is just unbelievable.

charlotte TBH I am half considering an email. I seem to be in a similar position to you with a FW that works away for periods. And it is scary how clear you think when they're not here and how quickly it fogs in. At least then you can carefully word exactly what you want to say. And as others say, we don't really owe them anything. Their behaviour is not exactly perfect relationship material

winnie TBH I don't think my FW is the counselling type. I suggested going lots and lots when I knew our relationship was poor but before I knew why and that couples counselling is contra-indicated in EA. He always said that he wasn't discussing his thoughts with a stranger anyway.

mink yes it's always so 'nice' falling out with normal people because the reaction and fall out is so much easier

bounty every single time FW was nice and normal, it would sway me back to not wanting to leave. But that was his plan. But also - that kind of day should be standard, not a 'hallelujah' happy brilliant day. Our perceptions are skewed. I've also been pulled in by letting him hug me when he's been awful and abusive, and just melted into his arms because I want to be there, I wanted him to love me normally. Luckily for you, he reverted to being a FW by saying all that crappy stuff about you appearance! What a shit. I would be willing to bet he's no Brad Pitt? What if he had promised not to go bald, or grey, and then started thinning and getting peppery temples - you think you'd be behaving as if he'd reneged on promises made?

What do you want to happen, in an ideal world? I mean, not in the ideal whereby he becomes magically non-abusive. Let's assume he is and you can't live with it any more. What do you want to happen with you, him, the house, etc? Work out that, and do it. If for no other reason than to get some space for him - if he's decent and loving, he'll give you space and prove to you that he's a good man worthy of your love. If he's not, he'll show you in many, many ways.

mink - I laughed a lot at 'frigmen'!!!! Send them round here when you're done with them!

Charlotte - that's a point about not knowing if he's received it. Unless you put something in it that you know he'll need to respond to/have to acknowledge - eg, please call early tonight as DCs are going to their friends' houses... or something like that.

pony I think maybe he does think that I won't go through with it. This is the third time we've had the 'this isn't working conversation' and each time I haven't gone. What frightens me is though this time I was certain that I would go ....but I haven't....AND I've agreed to a holiday next week. I feel like my head is spinning and I'm not sure how it happened.

sending you all , lovely ladies. I'm feeling a bit tonight because I'm not sure why I'm still in this relationship or what is going to happen to make me change it. There always seems to be a reason to procrastinate . . .I know I have made teeny tiny steps forward . . .I think I'm just overtired so I'm going to leave the Vixens early with a round of drinks at the bar for you all. Hoping we all have a happy, FW-free week ahead of us

:o :o at mink's almost-posted typo.

bounty, this shaky feeling after a great day together is actually good, because it should hopefully suggest to you that you should not on any account go on that holiday with him. Anyone spotting a raw nerve? I just think from painful recent experience that it would not be a good idea. Spend the week with Lundy instead?

Seriously, he is such an awful man. He makes excuses for those texts, which are dodgy dodgy (without admitting they are dodgy dodgy, I suppose) - oh, echoes of past behaviour from my FW again. And as soon as you stand your ground, very mildly, about the fat comments, he turns from lovely to FW. In the blink of an eye! Gah! He wants you to agree to go on a diet - that you don't want to do. Just to please him. Total ownership of your body, he seems to think he has.

Fi, I want to stay in the house with the dcs, so I do need to say something. And he will be living in the house in between trips until the end of July. I'm not sure I'm ready for solicitors yet - I'm not in a hurry to divorce and may do the 2 year thing if it works. I guess it depends how much of a FW he is about finances and contact? Paying a solicitor scares me: it looks like it could quickly get out of control, money-wise! I need to speak to my WA worker a lot, still. I was thinking I'd just email, "It's over" (or words to that effect) and then let that sink in for two or three weeks before doing anything more.

bounty, imo, yes, you need to end it. His comments and attitude to your (brave btw) revisit of the weight issue were callous and cruel. As good as it gets is that he has a lovely wife who is so kind-hearted she is looking for ways to excuse his cruelty at the end of a beautiful day many men would give their arm for. It is inexcusable.

charlotte,bounty, can you do it when they are leaving and there is no chance of hoovering. It may be tough to get through the time when they are there, but if they are leaving for work, they need to go. Reiterate by text, email, phone call whatever. And then do not let them back.

Cross posts - yes you're all quite correct that he's not ugly but certainly no adonis. Fairly slim but no six pack or ripped muscles. Slight bulge around his middle though apparantly he's eating 1200 calories a day to get rid (hence the helpful lets diet together comment)

I know I'm being a pain and annoying. If I was all of you I'd be shouting at the screen saying get out get out but somehow I'm not.

My ideal solution (apart from him miracuously changing) would be to discover that he is having an affair and him admit it so I can leave knowing there was nothing more I can do. Now I can see he's never going to admit that if he is cheating purely for that reason that it lets me leave with zero guilt.

So assuming that I need some guilt then I want to leave this house as a)I can't afford it and b) although we bought it together it feels like his. I'd like to rent for 6 motnhs to sort myself out and then buy a smallish modern semi ideally 3 bedrooms, small garden for DD and the dog, get a cat. And it wouald be decorated and painted throughout and no clutter (FW is a terrible hoarder)

That is my dream. I thought I'd be looking at that now but I cannopt believe how my emotions have let me down :(

Re solicitor, yes, it is expensive but not much choice with a FW if you think he will not accept anything you say, including that the marriage is over recent and ongoing experience

charlotte I actually have had you and your holiday on my mind today. I've kind of justified it that it is only 1 week and in the UK so I can escape at any time.

I don't actually own a lundy yet

I stupidly thought I was doing so well that I didn't need one

reply to bounty upthread - then will catch up.

How old are you bounty? Does your FW honestly think you can stay that age forever? It sounds like he has not come to terms with the fact that we all age (if we are lucky), our bodies more than our minds (if we are lucky).

Done I've bought it. I mean business this time

I'm 33 silvery I've been with him since I was 20. He's 10 years older than me. He is a Mr Average. It wasn't his body I loved. He's not bad looking but not great and certainly not about to feature on a hollyoaks hunks calendar.

tether - thanks for the drink. Hope you are feeling better tomorrow. You are making plans, and that's good. Focus on yourself.

bounty - just because you've agreed to go on the holiday next week, doesn't mean you actually do have to do that. You can change your mind, any time you like. I think Charlotte is right - he will use the opportunity to hoover you right up. From what you say, not wanting to stay in the house - carry on with your own plans. Find somewhere to rent, then leave. It'll probably be a six-month lease, so if your H is really serious (and not a FW) then that's an opportunity for him to prove himself before you declare it well and truly over. but he wont, cos he a FW tru say

please call early tonight as DCs are going to their friends' houses Ha, couldn't say that pony as the only three times I remember him phoning to speak to the dcs in the past year were during the week he was away while we were split!

bounty, you're not being a pain. Or annoying. hth :o

Well, if you decide to go on the holiday, take Lundy with you (will he arrive in time?) and steal away often to read chunks. Have a pencil with you as you will want to underline lots. :o

bounty, the question is what you feel guilty about? Zero guilt is never going to happen. XH1 left me for OW, the guiltt I felt about not being a good enough wife for him to stay and that dd only had me (as he was a crap NRP) far outweighs anything I felt re leaving FW. FW had ground me down into nothing and started bullying DD. I feel guilty about bringing him into her life. And for bringing ds into a relationship I knew on some level was not right. I do not feel guilty about ending it. So, have a think about what you feel guilty about and why.

Sorry, I probably sound harsh, I am tired and grumpy with FWs, all of them. You have no reason to feel bad, or annoying or anything like that. Think about your dream as a goal, then think about the stages to get there. Maybe just accept that your emotions will be all over the shop.

It's in the Bill of Rights - we have the right to change our minds.

Just after I served divorce, FW and I looked at houses for me based on a 50-50 split (not what I originally asked for), just for one day. That night I lay awake, and realised that an old memory of how it was long ago and how I hoped it would be, had caused me to consider this possibility - but, and here's the thing, I knew by the end of the night that I would not settle for 50-50, and I wanted to keep this house. Despite me telling him of this decision the next morning, for the rest of the following year (the time it took to divorce, settle and get him out, in that order) he persistently griped that I had gone back on my word!! I had done no such thing.

Hi all,
I have some disgusting stomach bug. This morning was grim but dm came in the pm and took dd1 for a bit so I survived. Whenever I struggle on my own for whatever reason I always remind myself how much worse it was with exh. This should make me feel better but it doesn't it just makes me feel sad that things were so bad in the first place. Though no one looking after you is better than abused a bit extra because you are vulnerable.

Aw thanks for saying I'm not annoying. I kind of know that I'm not but i suspect you feel about me like i did about colin. When she wrote that awful awful list of things he did/expected/demanded and then asked "is he really a FW?" I found myself yelling yes yes yes as it was so glaringly obvious to us as an outsider. But when you are in the relationship if just isn't so black and white.

pie Hope you're feeling better soon. So pleased that your DM has helped out/ A good Mother is worth a million FWs. Actually a good dog is worth a million FWs. Actually anythgin is worth a million FWs as they are totally, utterly useless

bounty - I think it's not so much that it's not black and white when you're in the relationship, more that you are tied up by things you can't explain, haven't mentioned, etc. There are real, heart-wrenching emotions involved, and every decision taken has a RL consequence. So you can't see the wood for the trees.

Pie I know what you mean - even though you know that if you were ill and still with the FW, he wouldn't have helped/made the situation any easier, there's still anger and sorrow that this is the case, that he wasn't a husband who would bring you water/soup/whatever you needed and get on with looking after the kids - ie what you expect from a normalhusband. Glad your mum is helping you though. You'll feel better tomorrow, hopefully.