Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Aw, cross-post Leclerc - great news! Hurrah for lovely friends.

Ah, am finally settling down for evening, kids in bed, in hand, mn on lap (as it were), dcat lounging over my legs. Good evening one and all in Vixens! Which band is playing tonight? Not the Boaky Tongues, obviously, they have a prior engagement in the FSOF

Butter, hope you're ok? Time to vent yet?

Bounty hope your Talk went well. I haven't done mine, not ready yet - had very difficult and overly energetic day and things are complicated. But had a very good sesh with my counsellor. Things are really moving along apace in that regard.

Leclerc your luffly friend deserves a pew in the Vixens glad about your new telly.

pony, tether, nini, fool, silver and everyone, hello

Right, now I'm going to scroll up and have a listen to all the anthems, yay.

Probably inappropriate but isn't there a song called "fuck off, bollocks, you're a c*"? A footie or rugby song? Or am I imagining it wishfully? Anyway, at the moment that's my anthem

Right. Pep-talk to self.

FW is not only a FW (a nice one at the moment - oh, but helpfully an absent one, too), but a narc. Abusiveness is just part of him. He could get help to change, but probably won't. He certainly isn't atm.

He brings regular stress into my life and there are only benefits when I demand them (and he feels like complying: say, ooh, if I've just said I'm leaving or something like that). I can't develop and be the person I could be while I'm tied to him.

My main worry is the effect on the dcs. Lightbulb moment: this is probably fears fed by him in many little comments over the past two months. Actually, I am worrying already that they are all too like him, so I can't argue that I should stay with him for their sake!!

It's two months ago that I had The Talk. I have undone all the secret filing I did (sad but necessary) and have shut the escape fund I set up (he found out - worse, I accidentally showed him). I have to do it all again. Work out when to tell him, for a start. Cut communication right down straight away, this time. And pray MN doesn't go offline ever for the next 6 months. :o

We could write it together Breathe! One line each?

I'm not drinking anything tonight. I'm still trying to shift a few lbs so I'm saving my drinks for tomorrow night. The luffly friend is the one whose birthday it is so I reckon I owe her one or two!

PS off topic but am trying to teach dcat to miouw "hello" - not as mad as it sounds (well, yes it is in fact now I think about it) but there are Youtube videos of people who have taught their cats to miouw hello! If you're having an idle moment on YT, a good one to look up!

Charlotte a brave decision lovely. MN only ever goes offline for brief periods (esp when someone asks for all their posts to be deleted ) so we'll always be here.

Chin up lovely girl. You've done it once. You can do it again. At least this time you will be totally aware of the pitfalls. x

charlotte everything you did before still has value, because it's all part of your build up to your eventual escape - like giving up smoking, generally it doesn't work the very first time, requires a few attempts, so each attempt is one step nearer and a necessary part of the journey.

Leclerc your luffly telly friend definitely deserves a good night out YY to writing the anthem together!

Lots of encouraging thoughts. Thank you both. 'Night all.

No here today, am an my third Fast Day on the 5:2 diet, but I can pretend. hic!

Go Charlotte. Nice pep-talk. If he's not actually doing anything to change atm, with all the promises and the hoovering then he never will. And never mind him, more important is you: I can't develop and be the person I could be while I'm tied to him. This. And the kids can't develop into the people they could be either.

Nothing is irreversible. Your secret filing can be done again. Another fund can be set up. You can do this.

breathe it goes my old man said follow the van, I said FOBYAC.

winnie me too. weirdly. and it is what I want played at mine as when I go that is what I want people to know that I thought. (plus it lets anyone who want a good greet to get it over with) but everytime I feel a bit weary just now I sing it to remind myself it is wonderful and I am lucky.

Every practice...in your head, in reality whatever...makes your eventual escape more likely to succeed.

"It will be ok in the end, and if it's not ok it's not the end"

I am worried about bounty and breathe, I hope they are getting support from RL friends.
tis glad you have got the TV sorted. And do keep posting about your sanctuary, it gives me some heart to get back to work on mine, which got derailed when FW flipped about me getting my sol involved and his subsequent harrassment, disregarding requests etc.
Well, I did call 101 a couple of days ago, and then told him I would call if need be. Literally within 48 hours, he has found a sol and they have sent a substantial missive, demanding a response within a week, no, actually, a four way meeting within a week.
Do not really want to say more, apart from I need to focus on dc and strip away the crap, and there is crap in there, mostly which signals he does not recognise at all the impact of his behaviour and still wishes things on his terms, except with lawyers behind him.
On the plus side, there are I think concrete proposals which could be developed which is why I need to focus on what is important for dc. But it takes such a lot because the letter rewrites reality on his terms, and I have to accept that for dc sake. Though am tempted to add to my bill by having a carefully worded paragraph which calls a spade a spade and makes clear I am setting that aside for dc sake in any response.
It is the knowledge that he will never ever acknowledge my reality, therefore me as a person, whilst still professing to love me. Plus he is now proposing things which he did not do when we were together, he did the opposite, when if he had done then, what he proposes now, life might have been easier. It shows me that he could have made the effort if he had wanted to. But he was happy to see me literally on the floor trying to keep things together while he made sure he was alright. I was not worth making the effort for. But the good thing is, dc is, at least after he has been faced with losing out there.
I could go on. I won't. I will write a long memo to myself at some point over the next few days to clear it out and be clear on goals for dc when I meet sol.
Then I will heed my own advice and focus on my own goals, the first of which is to have a lovely weekend with dc.
At every stage, there is a new layer to be dealt with. I am hoping this one is the start of reasonable negotiation and an end to the nightmare of the last few weeks, despite the crap it comes with.

charlotte consider first time a practise run. second time you will be practise perfect and you know that you really, really did try. he has had his chance. kids are more resilient than we think.

That took me so long to type on phone that the thread has moved on. breathe happy to sink into sofa. Wish it was real at the moment and all the FWs were away at the FSOF Fing OSM.

mink, what a - curious song.

butterfly that's all really hard. The thing is, as much as he can demand a response within a week, I don't know if you really are obligated to do that? Don't let him start by bullying you. What's your sol saying to his demands and the proposals he's put forward.
Also, don't let him rewrite history in an official doc!

But you're right, just so sad to see that he could make that effort if he really wanted to. He just didn't want to.

No, pony, I just realised there is a difference in what he is proposing, without going into details, current proposals benefit him, and shaft me, in financial terms whilst being in dcs best interests therefore hard to argue against. Had he done it before, it would have made my life easier practically and the money part would be joint. Probably makes no sense without the detail, but it wasn't in his interests before, it is now; and I can't argue against it for financial reasons without making things hard for dc.

Sol, bless her, sent letter with an email saying either to call her Monday or come in on Friday. Guess which I chose?

Well it didn't go well :( I said that I thought he was having an affair. He laughed and said why? I told him about the texts I'd seen. He basically said that he thought it was normal to text night night each night to a good friend. I asked about another text she sent to him saying Happy first K A to which he replied Do you regret it a bit? He claims he can't remember what KA stands for. I think it's kiss anniversary.

Throughout this he kept laughing at a tv programme. He was spread on the sofa looking really confident and I was curled in a ball on the chair. I showed him a screen shot of the KA text to jog his memory and he just said I'd been snooping

Then I said he's not nice to me. He said it takes 2 and I'm not nice to him either. I said I never call him fat or ugly and he replied that he'd not mentioned my weight recently. I pointed out that only the other day he'd said I needed to watch what I eat. The reply was that I'm piling on wt, have stopped trying and now have a fat belly.

I said he should love me however I am. He replied that I'd said I wouldn't get fat if I had a kid. I'm not fat. I wear all my pre-preg clothes. People comment on my good figure. I'm not going to look 20 forever.

At this point I should have said that I don't want to be married to someone who thinks so little of me. But I didn't I just clammed up.

I was feeling so strong and now I feel broken. I stupidly thought he'd admit the affair and beg forgiveness. Now I feel wrong for snooping and he's flounced off to bed in the spare room

And yes, the paragraph telling it like it is in polite lawyer language will go in.

Oh and he said I treat him like crap and ignore his feelings and font value his opinion.

bounty we need so much to be "the one" for them...because we've poured ourselves out to empty in loving them. It's ok to feel rubbish...but it does not mean that you are rubbish.

You are an amazing, insightful, giving person. You deserve better than you have been given. You deserve to be loved for who you are and admired for all you have achieved.

This was not a victory for him...this was one small step on the way to where YOU decide what you want and how to get there.

Don't know about you...but i would agree with the last of those statements...his opinion is not to be valued...BECAUSE HE IS WRONG!

Thanks fool. I feel really lonely lying here tonight. Maybe tomorrow I just need to be blunt and say I'm not happy, I want a divorce and am moving out. Cos really whether he is or isn't cheating is irrelevant. It's the fat comments that really hurt :(

Okay,bounty, can I tell you, I seriously tried to talk to FW with a view to ending things for 3 weeks before I did and I knew in my head a good whiwhile before that and we had conversations where I really wanted to say, it is over, but in reality, it is hard. You are doing it inch by inch. You know what the next line would be, you will find the confidence to say it soon.
Here is another thought. Start small little day to day things, for yourself, to build up your internal confidence so that you know you deserve to stand up tall.
(Hugs)

charlotte i dont want FOByAC played at my funeral although i suppose if the mourners insist I won't be there to argue

butterfly that sounds stressful. is he serious though or just thinking that you will argue the toss. would not surprise me if he majesty all kinds of commitments that he does not keep. all abpit the public face. lets hope he does do the right thing for dc. it ducks though Thst's usually we are the ones that have to do the right thing.