Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships...coming of age:21

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Is this the sound of the Hoover being plugged in? Or genuine apology? He's never said sorry ever, two weeks ago I was the abusive one!

COLIN - you ok?
NINI - glad to hear you are ok too!

Oh dear - speaking of emails I have just sent one of my own. After asking him to take the dog this morning as I am not his unpaid skivvy or dogwalker (to which he replied he has paid me - I presume he means the wages in joint account) he left the dog for me to walk when I returned from work along with an arrogant letter that told me to think about what I write (i.e - my note this morning - the unpaid skivvy one) So in anger I emailed. Total anger I mean.
"GO GET FUCKED" and "HA HA HA - that'll be me laughing when you leave" I know I KNOW it was wrong but I have been called a bitch, whore and had abuse now which I have sat on for 3 days. That anger had to come out. THIS is what I mean about the abusee turns abuser. Now, does that make me verbally and emotionally abusive or is that anger retaliation and a cornered pissed off woman who wants her husband to get the fuck away from her????

PONY - He said he was leaving Monday. Fingers crossed. I don't know what he said to the kids. I am too afraid to bring it up with them in case I hear something awful! God, I wish he would just GO!

Here's hoping for some peace for all of us - eventuallyx

Indeed, and I have to say ex FW here ignored me completely after the final one, before suddenly realising, oh shit, that might have been the final straw, she's suddenly acting real serious about this! Then all the, sorries, promises, love you shite started falling from his mouth.

And now I am really dreading him coming home except I feel rock solid today so I WILL be alright.....

I wish my anger had come out like yours Sam the only downside I can see is that you speak of, where it can make it more difficult to separate out your validation of his abuses from your anger not that he's less abusive IYKWIM?

FairyFi - Yes I think I know what you mean. The anger and abuse is all just one big blur. Him abusing, me angry, me abusing - then he can justify his own abuse. Ahhhh. I just have to reiterate that I am NEVER like this with anybody else. That I have never felt this kind of anger at anybody else...so this makes me think that his abuse is the root of my anger/return abuse??

I told myself it wasn't ME by knowing all the different tactics I tried in order to somehow make a difference to his abusive behaviours! .. and guess what... yeah... no difference.. so here I am STILL believing its my fault as I can still hear his voice, altho I've got a voice in there now challenging it. Maybe you have tried to handle things differently? especially earlier on? as it does get beyon the point where wood can be seen for trees.

got to sign off now and give myself a break! FP was tough and I need to try to get back on that balancing wheel again. Strength for ignoring ladies, and believing in selves (me too). xx

... just before I go, been thinking bout you Tis and the comment you made about faking, etc. These two very different persona's the 'front' and the 'back', if you like. Where the front is the fake it til you make it, and the back is so far behind that. I am currently hoping that I might be meeting myself somewhere in the middle ... well thats just weird, right? Its the 'back' that goes to FP, took front just the once, was weird.

Colin. You know yourself, I think, that it's a great big hoover being plugged in. The best thing you can do is completely ignore it and not reply. He's looking to engage you - perhaps his current squeeze is not working out and he's hoping the way is still open with you. Or else he wants to make sure you are still on the back-burner in case of emergencies. Either way, this is no apology, it's a calculated effort to make sure he stays on top and keeps getting what he wants.

Hope you are managing to resist the pull, I know it's hard...

Fi, meant to say earlier, glad you went along to the FP. It's like the stretches after a hard aerobics class - they hurt like hell but you know you have to do them or you'll hurt a whole lot more tomorrow.

Gotta run, in the middle of dinner trying to get dinner arranged while a poorly DS2 screams and clings to me, back later, lovelies. xx

At the very least, Colin, he is easing his conscience, so that he can tell others this is what he said to you, to show what a great guy he is.

There's nothing genuine about it. As you spotted. You're not going to reply, are you? For all he knows, you've yawned and thought, "Him? That's ancient history!" before putting your phone away again and getting on with your life. :o You will get there...

Sam, I'd say your email is TOTALLY understandable. But still wrong, ultimately. Totally understandable, as you are trapped and it's almost impossible in your situation to keep on behaving like a decent human being. No-one here blames you for it. But it's probably best that you don't justify it too much - just say, that wasn't my finest hour and I'll try not to repeat it; and then forgive yourself.

Hope that doesn't come across as too harsh!!

"trapped so that nothing you do leads to any improvement" I meant to say.

I've not responded. I'm just flabbergasted. He's texted as well now saying he hopes I'm ok. FFS.

This is the time to keep being really strong Colin do expect more of the same, as he's probably gonna be pretty insistent about this now, so steel yourself! sending you strength.

thank v much Pony - I really think it needs going through, so that it won't define me anymore. It will stop... I just know it will, I know it will... it will...

Hi Charlotte Yes you are right. Now feel utterly crap about stooping to his level. It's almost like if someone keeps telling you you are a bitch you actually start acting like one. And I was so bloody angry. Now he has every right to call me a bitch and a screaming crazy banshee. I can't do this calm act......I'm just so angry at his treatment of me and the fact that I have tried and tried and have given up with it all :(
Colin - it's all a tactic to confuse the hell out of you - and it is working. Ignore them (not like me who can't help but respond with nasty emails :( learn from my mistakes :)

I'm ignoring it as he ignored my desperate texts and emails when it suited him. To be fair, it doesn't ask any questions, just says hopes I'm ok and sorry, well I'm not ok and I don't accept his apology. Pretty confident he won't persist now

Stay strong Colin. I wonder if he might up it now that you haven't responded, determined to keep you under his control if he can. Keep ignoring! The minute you engage, you give him what he wants - it's like a naughty toddler, better bad attention than no attention at all!

Monte - hope your evening is ok. It's really hard to do what you are doing. But you must detach or else he'll continue to drag you down (don't give him the satisfaction of being able to justify his accusations). You stay strong too.

Thanks Pony I have just done some deep breathing. First breath I have taken all day! I understand now what has happened; he has gone on and on for days - calling me names, coming at me with fists raised. I have acted like a victim; practically hid away from him feeling anxious and scared. And now in true sam style I have struck back. He wins - now he can say what a bitch I am all over again. So I too need to ignore. So hard! How do you detach??!!

really good quote from chocoraisin- nothing can drag you down if you aren't holding on

re the abusee resorting to abusive behaviour:

The aim of an abuser is CONTROL of the other person, the methods used (emotional manipulation, anger, physical punishment, hoovering, gaslighting, mr nice/nasty) vary but the aim is the same and the cause/root is his or her entitlement.....

nearly all "normal" people are capable of using abusive behaviours (emotional blackmail, hitting in anger, put downs etc.) usually learnt during their upbringing or during significant other relationships BUT the aim is not to control the other person but to get out of the particular situation/fight/stress. On challenging or by self reflection the person realises the action/reaction is wrong, is able to take responsibility for their actions and think through alternatives.

SO don;t label/be labelled as an abuser unless the result is that the other person is avoiding conflict, unable to express themselves or you are controlling them as a person.

DETACH and you will be neither the victim, nor abusive.... imagine you are in a bubble with all his words pinging against the outside of it: you can hear them but they can't reach you. Remember his favourite put downs and play Fuckwit bingo, look at Lundy's list and mentally tick off his behaviours...become an observer in your own life for a while...a journalist who writes what she sees. Clarity and control (of yourself) will come!

what a very wise post fool

hello to all, too glowing from reuniting with friend to post much, but am reading and thinking of you all

Ooh! I like that quote mink (quietly files it away for later use/motivation).

Maybe it's something to do with the weather that all the FWs have upped their antics.

Colin sending you lots of strength and resolve. In a way, you don't need to wait now to see if he'll come back/when he'll come back, you're already on to the next stage and you can be proud that you've reached it. If he's anything like my nsdh then he will up his attempts to 'apologise' and engage you. Try to remember it's about control not love and that you don't want to have to go through all the pain of a detox again by slipping back into contact.

Hello to all the new faces. It's so sad that so many FWs exist and that they all use the same techniques but despite what the newspapers say it's brilliant that MN and this thread are here to support us

Had a long conversation with nsdh last night and was able to stay quite detached. It was interesting because I could see him deliberately trying to rile me and I just didn't rise to it. I just said 'you seem angry.' 'that comment was a bit patronising' and then brought the conversation back on track.

I also noticed that when he was angry, I felt a little wave of love towards him which made me think wtf is that all about?! But I think it's about my childhood and telling myself when I was a child that even when df was shouting at me or hitting me that he still loved me. I'm going to have to work so hard to try to break down that conditioning.

Sorry, that was all me, me, me. and to all. (and sam try not to feel too bad about the email. We're all human. I sometimes write long emails or notes but don't send them. It just helps to get it out and acts as a reminder about the bad times during the good times iyswim . Although speaking of which, I've been thinking about the cognitive dissonance and realising that quite often 'good' times are just times when nsdh isn't shouting, criticising, being moody so really they're normal times not good time ).

You've got a good grasp of what's going on, Monte, that's a good start - when you can see through all the fog to the reality of what he's trying to do to you. Next time you see him, before you say anything just think to yourself 'I see you now' and smile to yourself. And instead of reacting to what he's saying/doing, just smile, or say something non-committal like 'that's nice dear' or 'ok, if you say so'.

Anyone got any better tips on detaching? I'm not really sure how to go about it, mine came through time, really. But mink's quote from choco is a good place to start - let go of them. Decide that it doesn't matter what they say, not any more, because it's over anyway and you are just biding your time. So it doesn't matter if they shout or swear or call you names or beg or plead. It's all water off a duck's back arse.

Silvery

tether that's great that you were able to see so much. And you are completely right about that sense of us feeling so grateful and happy when they are nice to us - when for everyone else, that's just normal behaviour, not special behaviour that's rarely seen.

Silvery you are totally my hero right now

tether (and pony) there's a bit in Lundy about that - where you're looking for progress, they make a tiny move not even in the right direction but away from the wrong one (paraphrasing!) and you go 'hey! an inch! that's progress!' forgetting that they are so many miles away from acceptable that the inch is insignificant and entirely meaningless.

You know, thinking about it, have we ever come across a situation where St Lundy of Bancroft does not have the answer?

I'm firmly sat down in my chair at the Vixens tonight. I'll watch what I drink so I don't get too loose lipped, but I'm here!