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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

am I being assertive or unreasonable

294 replies

skatingonice · 03/05/2013 09:12

After a tough couple of years have decided to make ago of my relationship (of 12 years) but realised for my sanity I needed to be more assertive with what I want from the relationship.
There have been positive changes with house work (he can do some without being asked!) And a few other things too.

The sticking point is now sex. The has been a bit of a drout whist things were settling down but the last few times we have started we always stop as I want him to spend some time caressing me and turning me on, without just grabbing my breasts or putting his hand between my legs... Not saying he can't do these or I don't like them, just don't want him to start there. I have spoken to him, explained this, but he doesn't seem to get it, the other night I tried moving his hand on to my stomach (which I have said I like been stroked), another time I asked him to kiss my neck.... These are met with a blunt end to proceedings... He says I'm been unreasonable, those things don't turn him on so he shouldn't have to do them. I should just be turned on or be happy with where/how he wants to touch me. If I say please can you do x, the reply will be "well what are you going to do to turn me on? " but he is obviously already more turned on then me...He says I can only ask for things that are mutually enjoyable (I pointed out sex with both of us turned on would be mutually enjoyable)

I think he is obviously turned on enough for PIV sex from much less then I am. Is it unreasonable for me to expect him to spend some time getting me turned on too?)

OP posts:
Jengnr · 31/05/2013 09:24

Skating, I'm not going to focus on the abuser angle now because the label is obviously causing you some problems and I don't think it's helpful so I'm going to put it aside for this post.

The other issue here is that you are clearly not happy. Look at why.

You go and do something nice for him in getting the groceries while you're away. You weren't sure you had enough money on you to get him beer and all of a sudden you're all wrong (didn't he say 'what is the point of you?).

You want to have a pleasurable sex life. What you consider pleasurable is irrelevant as 'you should be happy with what turns him on' regardless of how you feel about it.

He had what you consider to be an EA (I use those words not to minimise the impact of the EA because other posters have hinted that it was probably sexual but you consider it not to be. Either way it's an affair of some sort). This EA hasn't ended, it's just 'reduced'. Why? Is that not a blurring of boundaries? How much contact would you need to consider it restarted?

When you split up one of the reasons you had him back was because he said nobody else would ever want you.

If you have an opinion you are a 'selfish bitch' who puts yourself before the relationship. The only way you can amend this is by deferring to him at all times.

If you don't answer a Facebook message within the requisite time scale you are also being a 'selfish bitch' .

You walk on eggshells to avoid being a 'selfish bitch' but get picked up on if you don't look happy enough.

These are the things I have picked out from reading the last few pages of this thread. I'd bet my house, car and baby there's plenty more of the same ilk.

Whether you consider this to be abuse or not it is obvious that this relationship is not bringing you any joy. And you deserve joy, and happiness and contentment. You don't deserve a slimeball knobhead like this who makes you feel so conflicted and insecure that you doubt yourself at every turn.

A good relationship makes you feel secure, relaxed, happy and confident.

LTB!

xxxxx

Jengnr · 31/05/2013 09:27

Fuck me, I missed the naked pics on the internet bit.

Run, run like the wind.

BerylStreep · 31/05/2013 09:33

Skating, I vehemently despise your H, and I don't even know him.

He is doing a complete number on you, and I think (hope) you are beginning to see it. It is all about him, isn't it? You didn't reply quick enough to a Facebook message? FFS - that is sceaming out that his ego needed stroked, there and then, and you weren't damn quick enough to do it!

It's all about how he feels, what he wants.

And it is a classic trick to make it hard work for you to stay in contact with friends, male or female. Or if you do see them, there will always be a manufactured row before or after, or both.

I would be grateful for the fact that you aren't married and don't have DC together (sorry, don't mean it to be insensitive). Have you a joint mortgage? He isn't all powerful, and there is nothing to prevent you putting a stop to his horrible treatment of you and walking away.

AgathaF · 31/05/2013 09:55

You're obviously not happy. Why do you stay with someone who doesn't give you happiness in your life?

BerylStreep · 31/05/2013 10:03

Can you order the Lundy Bancroft book from the library? Or from Amazon and get it sent to your work address?

Can anyone recommend some good websites in the absence of the book?

skatingonice · 31/05/2013 10:19

I thought I was happy...

My post is opened at work before it reaches me.

OP posts:
Teeb · 31/05/2013 10:47

Who opens your post? He does? If that's true it's totally 100% unacceptable.

Lweji · 31/05/2013 11:00

I'd be quite tempted to agree with him, that I was a bitch, and that I'd do him a favour and break up with him.

Cherriesarelovely · 31/05/2013 11:10

He does sound dreadful and imature. His responses sound so selfish and uncaring. He is basically saying he doesn't care enough to consider your feelings. Sorry but that would be it for me I'm afraid.

Cherriesarelovely · 31/05/2013 11:13

Oh no, just read the rest.....hideous. Please leave him. You will be so much happier on your own or with someone else. Don't waste any more of your life with this idiot.

pinkyredrose · 31/05/2013 11:13

Who opens your post at work?!

skatingonice · 31/05/2013 11:21

Admin staff open and distribute post at work. I'm not in the office every day, They need to to check for client things that need dealing with and things from Amazon could be gifts so would need recording. Everyone's post gets opened at work not just mine.

At home he doesn't open my post (or his own!) I deal with all Paper work but he gets home first and would ask what I had received from Amazon.... Don't think it's reasonable to not answer that... That's just normal conversation and I would ask the same the other way round.

To answer earlier questions, yes joint mortgage, totally joint finances. I earn more so not reliant on him.

OP posts:
Cherriesarelovely · 31/05/2013 11:31

A good relationship makes you feel secure, relaxed, happy and confident.

^ This along with the rest of Jengnr's last post^

skatingonice · 31/05/2013 12:37

Thanks Jengnr,

Someone I can take what you have said and agree 100%.

Other times I doubt myself so much, wonder if I am the cause of the problems. Or I will think actually I should be happy with what I have, we do (did?) have good times together, this is what relationships are like and I should be grateful for the support (?) I get and realise things can't be great all the time.

I honestly can't imagine a relationship where the things I have mentioned are not an issue.

OP posts:
Brillig · 31/05/2013 13:11

There may be similar issues, OP, but not to this really quite horrifying extreme. And in 'normal' relationships they can generally be resolved in a mature and mutually loving/respectful way.

Forgive me, I'm a lurker and late to this (very rarely post in Relationships), but I've read your whole thread and it's very sad. You are so bedevilled by this awful man and his mind games that you just aren't thinking straight.

I think you know this in your heart of hearts but I realise that action is harder to initiate.

I do think you need to escape this situation, though. Agree 100% with so many of the very wise comments on this thread.

Spero · 31/05/2013 14:11

This was precisely the trap into which I fell. I thought - but aren't relationships supposed to be hard work? It can't always be rainbows and sunshine can it?

True, it can't. There will be times in any relationship when you are annoyed or bored with each other or snap at each other.

But in a good relationship, worth having, you will say sorry to each other and resolve to make it up to your partner.

You won't insult them, degrade them, denigrate them, refuse to kiss them, tell them 'no one else will have you', try to isolate them from their friends,

etc. etc. etc.

As everyone has said - you are not happy. If you can't cope with the label 'abusive relationship' just yet, ask yourself. Am I happy? When I die and look back on my life will I be glad that I chose to spend it in this way with this man? Is being single really so awful and frightening that this life is better?

Charbon · 31/05/2013 15:21

I can assure that no healthy relationship would have any of the issues you've mentioned in this thread, let alone all of them.

It's profoundly sad that you think that every relationship is characterised by a bad sex life, denied multiple infidelities, criminal abuse of your image for others to masturbate to, control over friendships and constant surveillance of your demeanour and every action.

Can you afford some therapy? Have you considered talking to Women's Aid or your GP about this hell that you think is normal?

I often advise women in your position to get off the internet and into a room with a real-life person, so that you can see their facial reactions when you describe your life. I think you need to see how we have probably all recoiled with horror at some of the things you've described. If you could have seen our faces, maybe then you'd see how bad this is.

Your partner is revolting. You need to leave this relationship.

skatingonice · 31/05/2013 15:51

Have spoken to someone IRL. Reaction and comments were very similar to on here... somethings almost word for word. They were given some different examples to I gave on here but still reached same conclusion.

Why can't I see it all the time. Sometimes I can. I'm just so worried I'm making a mistake.

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 31/05/2013 15:59

Seeing the relationship as unhealthy sometimes and thinking that's an overreaction at other times is totally normal. You realise that what seems clearly abusive to others seems normal to you because you're used to it. Unfortunately, there's a limit to how much clearer it'll get while you're still in it.

Have you lurked on the EA support thread or read through the links at the top? You may well find some things familiar and some things making you feel "well he doesn't do that", so I'm hesitant to point you there. If you lurk on the thread, you will find that most of us can see it sometimes and wonder if we're making a big mistake at others.

That's great that you've spoken to somebody irl and got support from them. Would you be able to get the Lundy book sent to their address?

This thing he says about putting your own needs above the relationship - it says something about his (unhealthy) approach to boundaries, I think, but I can't quite get my head round what. Maybe someone else has something more helpful to say about that.

Spero · 31/05/2013 16:09

These kinds of abusive men will continually try to put you in your place and not to investigate what YOU want or need. Because the moment you do that you will see the relationship for the abusive one sided mess it is.
Anyone worth being in a relationship with will want you to be the best person you can be, they will celebrate that and be happy for you.

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 31/05/2013 16:26

It seems he doesn't see you as your own person. You're just the other half of him. Hmm

Do you re-read this thread? That could help a bit with clarity. But go easy on yourself - as you've said yourself upthread, adjusting to a new perspective takes time.

AgathaF · 31/05/2013 16:52

What about taking all the horrible stuff he does that you have documented on this thread and writing it down in a list. Maybe add some of the stuff that you haven't mentioned on here. Have a look at the list and ask yourself if staying with him is worth putting up with everything that you have written down.

BerylStreep · 31/05/2013 20:52

He seems to think that your needs and his needs are mutually exclusive.

In a normal relationship, your partner would be happy to support you in whatever aspirations and dreams you have. Instead he appears sulky and selfish, trying to dampen any self worth you have.

clam · 31/05/2013 22:39

Ask yourself this: do you think for one moment he is sitting agonising over whether he's being assertive or unreasonable or selfish towards you?

YoniBottsBumgina · 01/06/2013 00:04

If it helps I (and other mumsnetters I am sure) can tell you about the reality of a relationship where these things are not an issue. I know how it feels to not be able to believe that the "perfect" relationship exists - and no, it doesn't, no relationship is hollywood blissful happiness constantly all the time, but a healthy, normal relationship does exist and one of those really feels like perfection after being with someone who pulls your heart and your emotions every which way like this.

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