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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

am I being assertive or unreasonable

294 replies

skatingonice · 03/05/2013 09:12

After a tough couple of years have decided to make ago of my relationship (of 12 years) but realised for my sanity I needed to be more assertive with what I want from the relationship.
There have been positive changes with house work (he can do some without being asked!) And a few other things too.

The sticking point is now sex. The has been a bit of a drout whist things were settling down but the last few times we have started we always stop as I want him to spend some time caressing me and turning me on, without just grabbing my breasts or putting his hand between my legs... Not saying he can't do these or I don't like them, just don't want him to start there. I have spoken to him, explained this, but he doesn't seem to get it, the other night I tried moving his hand on to my stomach (which I have said I like been stroked), another time I asked him to kiss my neck.... These are met with a blunt end to proceedings... He says I'm been unreasonable, those things don't turn him on so he shouldn't have to do them. I should just be turned on or be happy with where/how he wants to touch me. If I say please can you do x, the reply will be "well what are you going to do to turn me on? " but he is obviously already more turned on then me...He says I can only ask for things that are mutually enjoyable (I pointed out sex with both of us turned on would be mutually enjoyable)

I think he is obviously turned on enough for PIV sex from much less then I am. Is it unreasonable for me to expect him to spend some time getting me turned on too?)

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 01/06/2013 09:42

Yes Yoni, it's true, no relationship is perfect. But I think abusers hide behind this when they are called out on their behaviour.

onefewernow · 01/06/2013 10:31

I wonder whether it isn't that you are afraid of making a mistake, but that you fear being alone?

I did notice about your posts that you do something I did fir years. You say and make a great claim to being assertive and holding your own, and that is your undoing. Because you are NOT assertive. Eg you refused to get the beer, he fussed, you got the beer.

Don't you see that you are able to start being verbally assertive ie step 1, then he uses manipulative tactics to get you to back down. So you do.

That's why he does it. Because he wins every time. Because he cares a lot about that. Because he sees himself as in charge. Because he doesn't want an equal relationship.

In reality you put up with it but complain.

Start to notice that and buy yourself a book on boundaries, as you have them but you don't manage them.

YoniBottsBumgina · 01/06/2013 12:57

I know Beryl :(

Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:13

In the sprit of going round in circles the sex theme comes up again.

TMI but i'll have forgotten about this in a few days otherwise.

Its my fault if i'm not wet enough for penetration as i'm obviously letting my mood get in the way. So repeat of the earlier conversations on this thread, he needs to spend some time turning me on etc etc. Grrr. Its my fault if i'm not in the mood for sex, my fault if i'm not 'ready' when he is, my fault if I don't orgasm.

BUT with regard to sex I do now feel like he is acting like he is entitled, he will try and enter me even if i'm not ready, regardless of whether this causes me discomfort. Again, something I have let go on for too long. So as I think this I am acting differently, so hes right. But hes also being unreasonable. He cant see why I just cant go back to how things were, I cant explain why ive changed. Again, its me expecting him to change now. Me wanting my own way again.

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 04/06/2013 16:20

Skating, stop taking the blame for this. It is not you wanting your own way. It is perfectly reasonable to want a loving fulfilling relationship with mutual love and respect.

I'm sorry to be crude, but this sounds like he is treating you like a warm hole to stick his cock.

It's great that you are posting on here - it helps to document it. But when are you going to do something about this in RL and get rid of him?

Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:27

Also what if i'm the controlling one?

I am a bit of a control freak :) but i am aware of it. I also always like to get my point of view across, but then again that's normally cos hes accusing me of something that's not true.

Think i need to back off from debates with him. If i'm right, i'm still right regardless of whether I've told him or not. that's way i can take time to consider if there is anything valid in what he says.

Or am i not just stopping arguing with him as he has told me i never let him have a point, always think im right, never listen to his point of view etc etc, so is this him just making me shut up?

I cant tell when i'm doing the right thing and when i'm doing something for an easy life. Least ive noticed there is a difference :)

OP posts:
Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:28

Beryl - that the big question isn't it.

When i'm sure it isn't me.

OP posts:
Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:31

Right now its like, well if i wasn't thinking all this negative stuff about the relationship i would be more in the mood for sex, and he wouldn't have to do as much to turn me on, so actually this is my fault (partly).

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 04/06/2013 16:33

This is not a normal way to live.

Sad

I've forgotten - have you spoken to anyone in RL about this? What have they said?

lottiegarbanzo · 04/06/2013 16:34

And you are having to think about all this negative stuff because... of his crappy attitude. That's what needs to change.

BerylStreep · 04/06/2013 16:35

X post skating - I think you need to stop and have a look at what you have just posted. Do you really think this is your fault?

Read back through all of your posts.

Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:36

Yeah, They said he was emotionally abusing me, the things he did and how he treated me made them angry, said i could see it too but couldn't accept it, lots of other things you guys have said too...

Just me that cant see it

OP posts:
Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:37

Read them all. Doesn't look good does it.

So why am i convinced i must be to blame!

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 04/06/2013 16:43

So your friends and some random people on the internet aren't going to convince you. Can you get some personal counselling? Does your work have an OHW facility? Could you pay for some counselling?

I can see clearly that you are not to blame here. However, ultimately, it doesn't matter who is to blame. It's not some court proceedings where the other person can sue. It's your life. He's a complete knob towards you. Does it matter who is at fault?

I honestly believe that if you got away from him, your self belief would increase, and you would see what we see.

Spero · 04/06/2013 16:46

Because for 12 years you have been in a dysfunctional and abusive relationship. It is your 'normal'. You are beginning to struggle to the light, but it is hard.

But please, read this all again in a few months if you need to - no loving, decent man would ever blame his partner for not being sufficiently moist to 'enjoy' his loveless foreplayless shagging. He is using you as something to wank into.

Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:51

I can see where he isn't behaving in the best way.

I can also see where i have my faults. Just want to be sure its not me causing him to behave how he does.

Work have something, will look. Not keen to go down the counselling route, no logical reasoning behind that, just not really for that step. Will think about it.

OP posts:
Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:55

Spero - totally agree, i can see that's wrong. But he'll always have a reason why i'm to blame and theres always enough of a point there for me to doubt myself.

And what do i say, "we're not having sex unless you spend time on foreplay with me first" That's demanding in itself isn't it? And how do i explain why i have allowed this to go on for years unchecked? Why i am changing the rules now?

OP posts:
Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 16:59

And we were out at the weekend with another friend who commented on how well we get on and how loving / affectionate we are towards each other.

They were surprised as i had mentioned a couple of little things that had pissed me off lately.

So things look good from the outside.

Just feels like one big game where no-one told me it started or even explained the rules. I just want to stop playing.

OP posts:
AgathaF · 04/06/2013 17:06

I just want to stop playing - you can do. You don't have to participate in it if you don't want to.

Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 17:14

It feels very selfish to walk away. I'm not there yet.

Still waiting for the clarity on what i can do to fix things, without compromising myself. (Or the realisation that its not fix-able)

Still trying to get my head around not doing things to please others when its not what i want (and that this is okay despite what i'm told)

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 04/06/2013 17:14

Skating, forgive me for referring to your other thread, but in that you said:

'I'm feeling stronger then i have in years and would be off like a shot if i had evidence of something. Starting to consider that i dont need evidence and that just being unhappy is good enough.'

Then you ended it with him. What are the circumstances of you getting back together?

I think if you are honest with yourself, it is because the counselling may force you to acknowledge the blindingly obvious - he is emotionally abusive and unfaithful.

Original poster
skatingonice · 04/06/2013 17:15

I feel very very guilty for changing and moving the boundaries of the relationship.

OP posts:
BerylStreep · 04/06/2013 17:18

Well he doesn't sound very guilty for having at least 2 sexually explicit affairs, and in all probability getting one of the women pregnant.

Dozer · 04/06/2013 17:19

Skating on ice, this is clearly emotional and sexual abuse Sad. Bet there is loads more you've not revealed. You are not causing his behaviour!

you think you are being unreasonable because he has messed with your head over a long period of time.

So he can put on a show in front of family friends, that's part of it all.

If you can, tell more stuff to the people who were concerned about you in RL, try counselling. Don't have sex with him at all!

You don't have to play games, but he won't change (he clearly likes things this way, and abusers rarely do). the best way is out!

Dozer · 04/06/2013 17:22

You need to move your boundaries a loooooong way further, skating, like "never darken my door again"!

You're being irrational, caught up in horrible confusing exhaustion, created by him.