am I being assertive or unreasonable

[skatingonice]

After a tough couple of years have decided to make ago of my relationship (of 12 years) but realised for my sanity I needed to be more assertive with what I want from the relationship.
There have been positive changes with house work (he can do some without being asked!) And a few other things too.

The sticking point is now sex. The has been a bit of a drout whist things were settling down but the last few times we have started we always stop as I want him to spend some time caressing me and turning me on, without just grabbing my breasts or putting his hand between my legs... Not saying he can't do these or I don't like them, just don't want him to start there. I have spoken to him, explained this, but he doesn't seem to get it, the other night I tried moving his hand on to my stomach (which I have said I like been stroked), another time I asked him to kiss my neck.... These are met with a blunt end to proceedings... He says I'm been unreasonable, those things don't turn him on so he shouldn't have to do them. I should just be turned on or be happy with where/how he wants to touch me. If I say please can you do x, the reply will be "well what are you going to do to turn me on? " but he is obviously already more turned on then me...He says I can only ask for things that are mutually enjoyable (I pointed out sex with both of us turned on would be mutually enjoyable)

I think he is obviously turned on enough for PIV sex from much less then I am. Is it unreasonable for me to expect him to spend some time getting me turned on too?)

" But there is another voice in my head going what if I'm wrong, what if this is normal and I trade it in over nothing."

That's really just insecurity. Living with an emotional bully is very stressful and corrosive. They create an atmosphere of insecurity as a way to keep you close. The pretend arguments, the nit-picking, the demands that you 'act like you're pleased to see me', 'no-one else would want you', 'you'd be nothing without me', 'I'm the only one that loves you', 'I'm only so jealous because I love you so much' (I'm guessing the last few but they are standard bullshit) etc... that's all designed to unsettle so that you cling to them, grateful, hoping they'll cheer up, get back to the good times and be the lovely person you know he can be.

Your insecurity is saying you might be wrong... but you're not. Your insecurity is trying to say this is normal... so that you're wrong again... but it's not. And as for 'trading it in over nothing'... if you didn't have this man you'd have yourself plus a lifetime of opportunities that you are currently missing out on. If you don't like yourself, if you don't trust yourself to choose a non-abusive partner next time around, if you think someone exhibiting this behaviour is the best you can do, if you are sticking with him because you're getting on a bit and you think he's your best shot at having kids ... that's insecurity.

In that case I have insecurity down to a T!!

Would an option be too stand up to the controlling. If it has no effect surely he'll stop.

I don't think it will escalate, is only ever being worse when I was not as strong and didn't stand up for myself as much as I should have.

Always stand up to the controlling. Goes without saying. However, be very conscious this is not an even match. You may be stronger than you were in the past (and well done for that) but you're still tolerating the fake arguments and the bad atmosphere. Put it this way. He doesn't sit nights fretting about whether he should modify his behaviour, whether it makes life worse being assertive, worrying whether it's normal, questioning his judgement and posting on message boards does he? Unlike you, he's quite complacent and probably rather satisfied with the outcome.

If it has no effect he won't stop, he'll just persist. He's done it for 12 years and it's his default setting.

I forget. Do you have children?

Not married, no children. MMC last summer and now isn't the right time to try again.

So sorry about the MMC but please don't under any circumstances have children with this man. If he's bad now, once you've produced a child and your options are more limited, he'll crucify you...

OP, you come accross as eminently reasonable, maybe almost too much so, always willing to see the other side of the story.

Do you have any idea how badly your DP comes across? From your posts, and I have nothing to go on but your posts as obviously I do not know you or your DP, it appears your DP is a selfish, manipulating dick.

So if this is as good as it is going to get, is that fine with you?

Hmm. I have read your other thread.

I truly think this relationship is not fixable. He is the problem, not you.

He treats you dreadfully. :(

You can stand up to the controlling behaviour.
It may even improve and not escalate. Although I suspect it will become more insidious and less difficult for you to stand up to.

What do you think will happen if you get pregnant and have a child?
He will use your child to control you, in all likelihood.
He'll be likely to leave you holding the baby, because that's what mums do.
You'll be more worried about leaving him because of the child.

Think about it.

Sorry, more difficult for you to stand up to. Doh!

I have just read your other thread too. At the end of it you split up I think. What made you go back to him?

Why did we try again, the main contributing factor for the split was the number of text being send to another woman. After break up he accepted some responsibly, did the whole I love you, we are good together, no one else like us, etc, plus no one else would have me (sure they would, I'm lovely!). Guess a big part of me believes that we are good together and wants it to work.

I have faults to. I was distant towards the end of last year, couple of things had happened that i wasn't happy with and hadn't been happy with him over (not going to discuss on public forum) and instead of taking to him I probably withdrew a bit, this contributed to the excessive texts to OW.

He's reduced the number of text messages. I promised to be more open when things bother me and not keep it to myself - hence calling him on things I don't like about his behaviour this year. Well trying to anyway.

Okay scrap that, on reflection this is more accurate: why did I go back... I left because I felt unloved and not respected. I wanted him to fight for me, he did, I when back. Then it all starts again.

skatingonice,

I previously asked you what you learnt about relationships when growing up.

This is what you replied:-

"Growing up, that's an interesting angle. Learnt that men are in charge and should be obeyed. Also used to wish my parents would split up as they weren't suited to each other, lots of rows and bad mouthing and put downs. Don't really have a relationship with either now".

See the continuation of same now in your own adult dysfunctional relationship?.

Did your mother also believe that they were good together and wanted it to work?. This mindset of wanting it to work is so damaging to you.

Your parents certainly taught you some very damaging lessons and I am not at all surprised this man has been in your life for the last 12 years. My guess too is that you met this person not long after you moved out, you were in a bad place and after life at home this person seemed like manna from heaven. Unfortunately he has turned out to be the man from hell. He does not value you one bit, he uses all the tactics that abusive men use (those include getting you to feel that you are at fault) to keep you where you are in the hole that he dug for you.

This person you are now with is really Your Dad/Mum Mark 2, it would not surprise me if this man was a carbon copy of your Dad and you are replicating what you saw growing up. He is just as damaging to you as they were.

I think you've always felt unloved and disrespected tbh. That rot started at home.

Don't know what my mother believed. Neither of them were blame less. She resented me for having a good relationship with my dad. She couldn't match me with intelligence so would try and manage me emotionally. Still would so I very rarely see her now. Actually rarely see any family, once a year maybe. Not healthy to see them more often.

I don't see obvious similarities.... theirs was a very different relationship dynamic to mine.

Met partner whist I lived at home.

Previous b/f would put himself in hospital if I didn't give him enough attention and kept threatening to kill himself when I left. (I knew that wasn't healthy and left)

Didn't have great early childhood experiences with men either...

Theres a pattern isn't there.

Or am I looking for a pattern and this is actually okay, and I'm making it into something is not.

I'm not this indecisive in the rest of my life!

I really, really hope it doesn't take much longer for you to see your relationship is not normal at all. Your partner is horrible to you and frankly sounds like a horrible person. If he treated everyone in his life the way he treats you he'd have no family, friends, job, nothing. He reserves it all for you.
He's got you examining every facet of your being and finding yourself wanting. Trying to improve yourself and change to please him when he can never be satisfied, because he will move the goalposts and find something else to nag and sulk and bully you about.
You are a decent intelligent caring human and do NOT DESERVE to have this millstone of a man round your neck.

He wooed you back by saying he loved you, you were great together ... and no one else would have you????

Why, why WHY are you still with this man? 95% of what you have said about him makes me feel sick.

And it will escalate. It always does. If he feels he is losing control of you, it will escalate. My abusive ex started with verbal abuse, when I stood up to that, he pushed me over and put a pillow over my face. I finally managed to end the relationship.

I really really hope that this thread is the start of an awakening for you. You don't sound remotely unreasonable. In fact you sound far too ready to bend to his every whim.

he treats you horribly. No one deserves this.

Yes there is a pattern and no this is not okay at all. Your current man hit paydirt when he met you because he has and is playing you for a fool. I think you were targeted by him because he saw your vulnerable state, abusive men like your current man can spot vulnerable and previously abused women a mile off.

All the men in your life to date including this man you've shackled yourself to now have failed you. The rot did start at home because your parents taught you damaging lessons on relationships. These were carried forward into your adult life unsurprisingly because you did not know any different.

Once you are free of this man and I sincerely hope that happens sooner rather than later, you need to enrol on Womens Aid Freedom Programme as this could well help you further. Such men can take years to recover from.

But I don't feel like a victim of an abusive relationship, or feel that hard done by compared with others.

It's just some things aren't that fair and stress me out.

No things aren't always okay, but I don't want things to get blown out of perspective. They aren't dire by a long shot.

Many victims of abuse do try and rationalise or minimise it all. Its certainly not just a question of some things not being fair and stressing you out.

Things are certainly dire and he has you precisely where he wants you; in the hole you have also partly dug for yourself.

I really think you need to read your opening post back to yourself again.

You say now No things aren't always okay, but I don't want things to get blown out of perspective. They aren't dire by a long shot

But you said when you started After a tough couple of years have decided to make ago of my relationship (of 12 years) but realised for my sanity I needed to be more assertive with what I want from the relationship.

So is your 'sanity' at stake or not?

Sounds like you are attempting to back pedal once you realise the unanimous advice is that this is an abusive relationship. I know it is very scarey to think about leaving, but surely staying is worse.

And this I find quite frightening
It's just some things aren't that fair and stress me out.

You are not describing things that are not fair - you are describing things which are clearly abusive - refusing to kiss you, telling you no one else would have you, picking fights and making you tread on egg shells all the time, etc, etc, etc.

When/if you get out, go and look at the Freedom Program.

You deserve more than this.