support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 20

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Nini hi - and, as is said often on MN - 'No' is a complete sentence.
And, no, you don't need either to apologize or to explain.
I don't want this to sound brusque - but this has to stop.
You are not unreasonable - you are right.

nini - how would your FW react if you had bought him the tickets at a busy time for him. If he's anything like mine (and he probably is as they're all the same) then chances are he would say 'nice idea but just not practical'

So I don't think it is wrong not to go and you're hardly going to enjoy it if you're worrying about DD being with FIL and knackered having sorted all the sheets etc.

Could you sell the tickets on ebay so the money isn't wasted? and but the dvd that you wanted

Or do you have other friends that would actually want to go?

I'm not sure of the answers but I don't think your response or thoughts are inappropriate. It'll be interesting to see what others say.

Hi Fingers. I know it has to stop, you're right, it's like one of those horrible carousel rides that just won't end. I want to get off! Just when I think I've got a handle on him he ties me in knots again.

Probably a bit late to sell them on eBay Bounty. I could offer them to my friend who was supposed to be going with me, but unless I go I face his wrath even if I got the full price of the tickets back.

I make it sound like he bought me this tickets 'out of love' but so much of it stinks of his control - choosing something he wanted me to have rather than what I wanted, deciding which friend was going with me etc.

Hi, ''Tis :)

I agree it is control just wrapped up in an 'aren't I so thoughtful' gift.

What would happen if you just didn't go? Shouting, silent treatment, violence?

If it's just shouting/sulking then I would be tempted to just say no. It's not practical. I can't leave DD. I thinking clawing a bit of control back and doing what you want is the way to go.

Not if he's likely to be physically aggressive.

I don't really know is the short answer. He has form with physical violence but on one occasion alcohol was involved, the other he just totally lost it, so I doubt he'd get violent (has a good guy persona to maintain don't you know).

Who knows. Too tired to think. Put me in front of the Vixens' log fire so I can sleep

Am with your fucking FW on your behalf, Nini, although I know I don't need to be, as I'm sure you're feeling quite livid yourself.

My suggestion is this:

Do. Not. Go.

Face the wrath. Pah. You know it's coming and you know HE's the unreasonable one. Could you handle that? Could you let it wash over you and still think: "You, sir, are a FW."?

Otoh, I know that I personally would not follow that advice but go through with it all, feel too stressed to enjoy it much, but minimise it on my return so that I felt I'd made a bit of a fuss about nothing and he was probably right.

((hugs)) and keep going with the planning, love.

A rock and a hard place Nini I don't know what I would do. Mainly because I cannot conceive of FW having ever done such a thing, whether through true generosity or to create a no-win situation

Right, I'm off to watch a little Twilight (dd1 is making me watch them all!) but I'll check in before bed and my inevitable return underground (thank you once again SiL for removing me from this group of lovelies... and you too FW for being such a, well, a FW )

It's been lovely popping in. I shall continue to keep a weather eye on everyone. Perhaps I should make it my tradition to pop in when anyone escapes? Who's next??!!

I was livid Charlotte, now I'm just tired. Probably going to toddle off to bed in a bit, another long day beckons tomorrow.

And you're totally right, I should face the wrath, but equally can see myself going.

Baby steps, baby steps...

Thanks Nini and Bounty, it helps to get it out. I just keep howling in pain. I just can't believe he's actually gone. Never to be seen again. So sad.

Take care Leclerc, enjoy Twilight if you can

colin soon you'll be able to see what we can all see clearly. That it is not sad that he has gone. that you are a million times better off without him and that he does not deserve you.

leclerc me next please god well maybe not out out, but telling FW that I want out.

Ahhh!

Nini my blood boiled on reading that . Yes it is control. No you are not being unreasonable. What a fucking palaver he's dumped on you.

I agree - do not go. But if it's difficult to contemplate his response, could you tell your friend the truth but tell fw you have tummy flu and cannot travel, groan and loll a bit (taking leaf out of the men's book). So even if he's pissed off, in his la la land of pretence and double lying, you are in the clear and he can't really complain apart from to say (if it was my fw for instance) "Why are you always ill" (untrue), "you never wanted to go in the first place, you've been against it from the start, because you hate anything I do, because you hate me!" (all true but denied virtuously).

And the fact that the latter statements are true is OK!! Because his plan is setting you up for a fall with lots of nice little booby traps along the way - he knows your distrust of FiL, he knows the money situation, he knows you're knackered, he's even invited FiL into your bed so you have to turn room upside down and change sheets, plus with visitors invited by him at the w/e!!!! If it wasn't so bloody appalling I'd be slightly in awe of his masters degree in fwittery!

Tis lovely to see you! Here, have some (sorry about drinking from the bottle )

maggie, how's you? It's such a treat to be able to write that sentence, we were hoping all was well but were worried for you, lovey, so glad it's a good outcome

Colin so glad you've got some support. It WILL get better, keep putting one foot in front of the other and the pain will subside (((hug))) And interesting and hopefully validating to hear what his ex said.

You don't have to decide tonight nini sleep on it.
colin I havn't had chance to catch up on all the thread but hope the docs went ok and it you cut your knee it doesn't heal straight away but it will, it really will and you will think that this pain now is worth your great life ahead. Try to sleep well.
maggie enjoy your own bed tonight.
I hope when I post tomorrow that things have gone ok, I want to read my post tomorrow today - so scared, I want to know what happened and then I can prepare sleep now C tomorrow.

Ah better so sorry you're feeling so worried. Can we help? xxx I know that feeling of wanting to jump forward a day to see how it turned out instead of living through it Don't forget the Kitchen Implement Army is behind you

How on earth did it get to this time???? I've completely missed Nini and the too brief return of Leclerc.

Nini - rock and hard place is right. If you go, you'll be stressed about spending money, stressed about DD and fuming with FW. If you don't go, your FW will be v mad. Neither is very appealing, so, on balance, do whichever you want and disregard what anyone else wants. If FW had really wanted you to go, he'd be springing you the travel (and a hotel) as well. He knew it was just a grand gesture with no thought as to the actual practicalities. It was a selfish present, it was a gift from him to him, not for you at all. So if you don't want to go, don't worry about what his reaction will be, don't worry about his hurt feelings, because he never never considers yours. And you'll be out soon anyway, so who cares!!!!!

Leclerc - miss you, lovely lady.

Colin, glad you got some help from the docs. Your friend is very right in her interpretation of him. Give yourself time to feel better, and be kind to yourself. Grieve. Miss him. Wait. It will get better.

Maggie, feel happier going to sleep tonight knowing you and your DCs are safe. Still such, such good news. How are you enjoying having your own bed, or is it too comfortable, do you miss the lumpy sofa???

Thanks bounty I just hate my poor DS's life being controlled by people I don't know. I don't even control it and I have looked after him every day since he was conceived. He is his own person, I wish these strangers would leave him alone and stop talking about him.

Nini if you can face it, say no, and say its because its because of his deep lack of insight or empathy into your life! which is also the reason you'll be leaving! then refuse to speak of it ever again, and be resolute no matter what he says.

could hear that rewarding glug and sigh from here Fly good for you!

to all, and hearty welcome to all, especially old friends, long-standing I mean, not 'old'

I hope your health will be rapidly on the mend now Maggie amazeballs.

Your physical pain sounds like the fallout from trauma bonding, which really does pass. Do everything you can to nurture and comfort yourself. All the things you can ever remember you love apart from FW to treat yourself and indulge yourself and pamper yourself... Re-read my prescription in previous posting! Repeat more often than necessary hun warmest (((hugs))) it will pass.

Do speak to WA, as they are familiar, and will very likely have good practical help, in fact sure they will.

Bounty what will telling him serve? What would you like to hear him say? Just plan and go? You owe him nothing now hun. xxx

Evening all please wish me a happy anniversary (19 years ) as I hope it will be the last one married to FW! Had a lovely day , had my hair done, lunch with DM, flowers from MIL and dinner out with kids tonight. Just going to pour myself a .
Had to email FW and managed to drop in that it was today, sure he'd forgotten and he was even almost pleasant to me for once ( but another day tomorrow)
Hope you all had a good day and no Fwittery xx

raising a glass to that Raenbow having pampered yourself had precious time with DM & DC not FW

better, we'll all be there with you, waving our whisks and garlic presses at your ex until he is a gibbering wreck. Picture us with you and stand strong. xx

Breathe - love your assessment of Nini's situation, and your advice of how to get out of the trap going.

Funny day today. Since it was a nice day (shock horror!) my dad decided we should go up to my old house and take stock of what needs to come out of the garage - I am allowed in the garage, presumabley (since FW gave me a key for it several weeks ago), but not in the house I am still being asked to pay for. So we did, and I guess this is the beginning of the end, seeing some of my stuff on the pavement, before piling it into my dad's garage again.... It made me feel pretty sad, and especially to see some of DS1's stuff on the garage floor like rubbish, all rotting away with the damp and mould because it had been left there for so long.

At DS1's sports class this evening, talking to one of the other parents who is a teacher, same as my FW. We were talking about disciplining kids who are taller and bigger than us (from me talking about how DS2 is going to be really tall), he told me a few 'teacher' tactics - make sure you are higher than them, ie standing if they are sitting. Get up really close to them while they are sitting. Lean into them or lean over them. I felt myself go cold and funny all over, I nearly burst into tears. Instead I laughed (although it was a weird sounding one) and said that was interesting because that's what my husband used to do to me. Then I blurted out that I was no longer with him, because of his intimidation. (Think this fella must've thought I was loopers, he was about 10 years younger than me, there with his step-son.) I felt really shaky for ages after that, and got me wondering if that was a specific discipline tactic that they teach to people at teacher training. Not that my FW would need to worry about the kids being bigger than him, he is over 6ft tall (I'm just over 5ft, so I can see why he felt the need to make sure he was standing over me, etc...). Gah. Just a funny day.

Right, that's my turn with the rant baton had now. Enough!!!!!

Happy last anniversary raenbow. Glad you made the last one count! That's the way, see it off in style.

I love you ladies not prompted by alcohol I swear. You all make it much easier to see through the fog. Love Breathes idea of faking illness (although telling friend the truth not an option I'm afraid). Think I will follow betters advice and sleep on it tonight - he's gone to bed without speaking to me anyway.

Curtis you're totally right - if it was a real gesture he'd have offered to pay for transport etc. Not that he's ever done that, I have to act grateful for whatever scraps he throws me.

Big hugs better, will be thinking of you tomorrow. Hope it all goes ok.

To your good health!

Not surprised that unsettled you Curtis, I had a boss once who used to do that, it IS very intimidating and no wonder you were unsettled. I hope that isn't a common tactic in teaching! As for the stuff in the garage, maybe try to see it as another step away from FW?Glad your Dad was around to help

I need sleeeeeeeep. Another long day tomorrow. Night all, save the last drop of for me!

I've managed an hour of Twilight! At this rate I'll still be watching them come Christmas...

And now I'm off to bed. DS is sleeping lots better, but somehow it seems to have made me not less, but more tired than before

Good night to all, both lovely ladies here and various assembled Fuckwits and Arsewipes lurking in the corners. I'll be watching. And posting occasionally.

Love you all x

Hi ladies, just checking in. On serious countdown now. 7 days left with fw! I get the keys on Friday, officially move in the following Tuesday. Had to be during the week as fw said he would create a fuss!!

Talking of which, did any of your fws go from being nice as pie to downright nasty on the build up to moving out? My fw has scared me a couple of times this week now, but then the next day he is as nice as pie! Don't really know which way to hop tbh.

Dd is coping really well. She has had a few tears, but keeps asking questions which I answer as honestly as I safely can. Bless her, she has been so helpful in packing stuff up. Fw hates me for that!

Haven't read much of the thread.

Colin the pain will go in time. I hope the docs are able to help. Therapy for me has quiet literally been a life saver.

tis best wishes to you I hope all is OK. I have the voodoo dolls ready

maggie good to hear from you and that you are now safe. Look after yourself

Don't know about you ladies, but I need a couple of