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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 21/03/2013 20:56

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
TheSilveryPussycat · 24/03/2013 10:43

He isn't going to change. You are angry. Keep hold of the anger, with a smile on your face if need be, and use its energy to power your escape plan.

arthriticfingers · 24/03/2013 10:45

Alice first of all :( :( at what you are going through.
Keep posting.
Read what you post and slowly you will realize that you cannot let this FW drag you or the children down any further.
And have a

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 24/03/2013 10:52

I have to be honest - he's had so many "second chances" that I suspect he feels I will never actually leave. It's reached the point where he now says "well, I'll just pack up and leave then" when we've had an argument. I don't do the whole "oh please stay" thing. I refuse to do that. He has said a number of times "It's obvious you don't want me here. You weren't really giving me a chance at all."

I'm waiting actually. Money says he'll ring early saying he has had to leave work as he couldn't cope/was having a panic attack/wasn't feeling well.

BreatheandFlyAway · 24/03/2013 11:18

Alice once you've made your decision (and it sounds like your sub conscious already has?!) then it's much easier to detach, inwardly curl a lip and ignore Smile. That sounds awful, specially with the cocklodging. But in a way, perhaps that makes it easier, as it can't be more difficult without him Grin - sorry making presumptions from my own situation, probably projecting. So glad you're here, amongst true friends (even if we are ether, we're still real somewhere IYSWIM!). You will slowly gain strength to do what you know is the only long term solution. xxx

trustissues75 · 24/03/2013 11:22

What's cocklodging?

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 24/03/2013 11:30

I'll admit he's not a "cocklodger" in that sense. He was home from work due to a flare up of COPD, which he has been diagnosed with. The first GP was negligent, which meant he was home longer and took longer to be diagnosed and given appropriate meds, which really isn't H's fault.

But he was off work for so long because he kept panicking about going back and his breathing would get worse. Between that and his depression, the GP kept writing him off for a couple weeks at a time. But the best thing for him is to get back to work IMO.

The last couple days he has gone ballistic over the smallest things. The pattern is still there - he is worse during the times that the children are home (better when they are in bed or at school). It's very obvious - he shouts at them, I tell him to stop, he turns on me. Like clockwork. I imagine he'd not turn on me if I let him continue to tear strips off the children, but there's no way in hell I'm going to test that theory, obviously. Miserable bully (which he resents being called, by the way).

minkembra · 24/03/2013 11:34

Alice i know only too well the Nancy who expects everyone to put up with his stress with no thought fir the stress he causes. he did not deserve a kiss. don't feel guilty.

And next time he threatens to leave, open the front door for him see what he does. big bairn that he is.

trust cocklodging is letting someone else pay all the bills and earn the money while you do feck all except have a cock. Technically my ex was not a fulltime cocklodger as he had a house and job. but he thought coming to my house was doing me a favour even though most of the time when he was there he did nothing other than eat, complain, shout and swear. he never paid any bills but expected me to have broadband so he could use it etc. Only looked after the kids a few hours per week and washed a few dishes. when i threw him out he actually had the cheek to complain that it was not fair as he now had to pay to heat his house!!!

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 24/03/2013 12:07

The thing with the children is that he rages at them, when I intervene, he goes off at me saying "so their behaviour is okay? You don't want them to behave? Fine let them run wild!" Well, no. But I hardly think repeatedly shouting at them for everything is appropriate either. Oh, for a penny for every time I've said "You can deal with discipline without shouting and swearing." Hmm

Sorry. Minor rant.

Tethering · 24/03/2013 12:30

Alice the arguments over discipline sound so familiar and it's so hard.

I'm rubbish at being on this thread. I can't keep up and I just feel so stuck at home. Whenever I try to talk to H about our relationship he says we don't have one. It's as though we're waiting to see who will leave first but he won't (despite constantly threatening to leave) because his solicitor told him he'd be in a better position if he didn't leave the house. . .

Now, he has asked me to book a holiday for us all. I'm just Hmm we don't have a relationship, you treat us like shit when you feel like it, you admit you don't want to have an equal relationship and that this is your relationship not our's so I can leave if I don't like it . . .and then you want to play happy families with a holiday.

I feel like I'm going mad. I know I should emotionally detach and see a solicitor but I'm scared. I'm scared of him, and of being on opposite sides (because he plays the unstable card so well) . . . sorry I'm just ranting . . .Time to read some more Lundy or do more of the freedom programme I think. Sad

snowshapes · 24/03/2013 12:32

mink seriously, I think our FWs must be related. Broadband package - tick. International call package, heating always up, massive food bill with expensive stuff - tick. Contribution to household costs - nope. I kind of justified it post DC by thinking he was paying commuting costs (we also kept our houses) but I also knew how much money he was saving each month. I did ask that we sit down and jointly look at our respective outgoings. It didn't happen.

Alice I also got 'well you will be rid of me [whenever his train was]' or well, I will just leave then. Except he had no intention of going, it is just a way to get you to feel bad. Not that you should, of course.

I still do not get why in all of this. I mean, FW can scarcely have been happy in all of this. Or maybe he was, having everyone dance to his tune when he deigned to descend. Who knows?

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 24/03/2013 12:45

snow I don't get the "why" either. It can't be fun for them either. Maybe it is and I just don't get it. I don't know anymore.

He just rang me from work during his break. All chirpy cheerful like nothing happened earlier. Either trying to pretend it didn't happen or there are workmates sitting around while he was on phone.

That's how he'll be when I pick him up from work as well. All cheerful and chatty, as if yesterday and this morning never happened. And if I'm quiet or not willing to "chat" then I'm being unreasonable and trying to ruin the evening and drag up old unpleasantness. Yes, HIS unpleasantness. If I even mention how he behaved it will be "are you going to drag that up forever? throw it in my face for days now, right? Because YOU're perfect!" and on and on... sigh

Doesn't matter what I do anymore, I'm fucked. Really. Just fucked.

(and yes, I can't help it. Am down and can't swear out loud, as the children are in the room, so I had to say it here. My apologies for my colourful language. Blush)

minkembra · 24/03/2013 13:28

Alice colour use of French is perfectly acceptable here.

Re. discipline. tick. followed by well that is why i don't take an interest in the kids i don't get a say in the way they are brought up. i tried explaining that discipline is positive, control is not discipline. otherwise once you can no longer control them they have no discipline and they won't like you. (once his eldest got old enough that he could no.longer make her do as he said they fell out)

Alice you are darned if you darned if you don't get but there is a 3rd way. don't engage and let the door slap him on the arse on the way out. hopefully at least if he is fine at work he will be out a bit more.

minkembra · 24/03/2013 13:34

tetheriiing holiday wtf. what exactly is stopping him from organizing a holiday. oh yeah because if he does it he won't be able to complain about it and to say well you made me come on holiday.

Every single holiday with ex had at least one miserable incident.

I remember a holiday where he went out for a run much to my relief after an incident the day before when he totally bawled me out over something he later had to admit was not my fault. he ran into a tree branch and allegedly almost fell off a cliff. came back in with a cut on forehead. Part of me thought omg what if he had not come back and part thought well that serves you right you fucking twunt.

FairyFi · 24/03/2013 14:50

tethering welcome, I'm rubbish at this thread too Wink. It does move very fast, we all just doing our best to keep up failing sadly/badly at the mo! tick tick tick, for the confusions, sadnesses, and fears. All of those hun. You'll get there. Lots of support for you here. You've got the best book for the unravelling/clarity req'd.

Cocklodger = HUGE entitlements and absolutely NO responsibilities -

WARNING: French alert

FUCKING FWs!!!

big luffs to everyone xxx

TisILeclerc · 24/03/2013 15:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowshapes · 24/03/2013 19:47

tis I am glad you got an apology, really glad, I hope your Church wiBBll begin to support you better. I was going to say don't worry about your response, but actually I think you are right to note it. On one hand, it shows you to be gracious and concerned about minimising the other person's possible awkwardness (a kind and good thing), on the other, you are minimising the hurt people's responses caused you. I do the same thing, say it's okay, don't worry.

Alice swear away, the situation merits it. I remember the pointless arguments FW would start at 11pm, then he would kiss me goodnight and go to sleep, I would be so upset i could not sleep, still trying to work it out in the morning, and he would be chirpy as a spring day. As far as that is possible for someone of a grumpy disposition. It makes you feel unreasonable for ruminating on things he has forgotten, or like you are losing it because it is clearly not worth being upset about. How many times did this happen, how many night's sleep ruined, how many mornings. But then I would be expected to smile, make conversation, and if I happened to mention the disagreement, tben in some way I would have misunderstood.

My thread resolution is to work on getting FW out of my head. I am going to try being like I want to be, rather than how I feel.

Love and strength to all.

snowshapes · 24/03/2013 19:50

tis sorry, that sounds like I was analysing your behaviour, which was not my intention. It was more a reflection on it, because I was thinking about people pleasing.

minkembra · 24/03/2013 20:06

Anyone seen the thread in AIBU. yes he is. FW!!!!! I am not going to link to it in case he follows the link back here.

I can totally see why she is doing this

One to watch out for though. has really weird posting and sock puppet history and keeps popping up very randomly.

So watch out for him trolling threads.

If that is anyone who visits/lurks here well done for getting out. Not buying a word of his self centered self pitying nonsense.

minkembra · 24/03/2013 20:08

Sorry should say if that is the ex of anyone who visits here.

TisILeclerc · 24/03/2013 20:35

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra · 24/03/2013 20:57

Awwwww. Grin
They are cute.
And TOD is well TOD

snowshapes · 24/03/2013 21:17

Lovely photos of DCs, thank you for sharing, very cute.

And OMG at TOD. I think I started lurking on this thread at around the time TOD made his appearance. He lives up to his name.

TisILeclerc · 24/03/2013 21:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foolonthehill · 24/03/2013 21:29

Gorgeous....cake and boys!

TOD still looks doomful.

wish me luck everyone, tomorrow I am going to listen to meet FW so he can't say i haven't heard him out any more and in the vague hope that I can get him to hear IT'S OVER< I AM NEVER< EVER LETTING YOU BACK IN".

Suspect he will be doing the metaphorical fingers in ears and going lalalalalalalalala thus enabling him to IGNORE ME AGAIN.

will report back on the physical state and progress of his hunger strike (hahahahah) as I am sure you are all ever so worried about him.

TisILeclerc · 24/03/2013 21:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.