Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

999 replies

CharlotteCollinsismovingon · 21/03/2013 20:56

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
minkembra · 23/03/2013 09:45

So true. best behaviour was just token. it was never you sit down i will cook the tea or why don't i organise a day out for a change nor even is there anything i can give you a hand with. not even hey it is my turn to get the kids ready for school. sigh.

I never actually wished him dead. but i did used to think i imagine some day i will meet someone comfortable who makes my heart sing after this is over. and then feel guilty.

TisILeclerc · 23/03/2013 09:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowshapes · 23/03/2013 10:25

Good news tis

Flying visit from me, Fw is here seeing DC2. Stress. He has just said that his ex and her DH to be are bringing SD over in a couple of months and we need to talk about how the children are going to see each other. It is the middle of term time. Obviously want children to see each other but feel ambushed. Advice? Please?

snowshapes · 23/03/2013 10:26

Sorry am panicking find his presence so stressful anyway cannot think straight.

TheSilveryPussycat · 23/03/2013 10:43

Ask him to give specifics of what he is proposing. Jot it down in note form, and check verbally that what you have noted is what he's proposing.

Then say "I'll need some time to think about that. I'll email you about it."

Do not get drawn into discussion or put forward objections or anything yet. Just get his detailed plan and make it clear it is for consideration only.

snowshapes · 23/03/2013 11:15

Thanks phone just swalowed longer reply but appreciate advice. Taking deep breaths and about to go out with DD. Will update later.
Are you in Ireland this weekend? If so double thanks for reply!

TheSilveryPussycat · 23/03/2013 11:22

Am supposed to be packing. Instead am procrastinating MNetting Blush

TisILeclerc · 23/03/2013 12:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSilveryPussycat · 23/03/2013 13:01

I see now Grin well done to those involved Grin

Bertiebassett · 23/03/2013 18:41

Hi everyone...these threads are moving so fast I can hardly keep up!

Just a quick update from me. FW is moving out in two weeks time (earlier than planned...hurrah! Smile).

Unfortunate (but as expected) he is upping the pressure as the deadline approaches...trying to get a reaction from me I think. I'm doing my best not to respond to any of his comments but its really hard. A few choice comments I got this week were:

  • "everybody thinks you've overreacted and are making a huge mistake by divorcing me" (he's telling people I'm having a 'crisis'...either midlife or menopausal...)
  • "my advice is that you stop fussing over DS and pay more attention to your cat...you're not looking after her properly" (this is after he stormed into my bedroom at 6am on Tuesday and physically dragged a just woken up DS from my bed at 6am because it was the start of a 'daddy day'...the next night DS was scared to come into my room when he had a nightmare as he didn't want daddy to get angry again Hmm)

I keep thinking that part of me might be sad when he leaves...but TBH at the moment all I feel is a sense of relief that its nearly over.

Hugs to all of you x

TisILeclerc · 23/03/2013 19:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minkembra · 23/03/2013 20:34

tis great need re. GB.
bertie not long nowSmile.

I am amazed how little I miss ex now too. after 2 short months.

previous long-term ex took 5 years to get over. because he was actually worth the love.

foolonthehill · 23/03/2013 21:34

don't miss him at all, have not since he left...can't believe I spent so long salvaging the salvageable.

TisILeclerc · 23/03/2013 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

snowshapes · 23/03/2013 21:39

bertie what a shame for your little one. Count down the days! You won't miss him, more the idea of what your relationship should have been, iyswim.

I'm just going to have a little self-indulgent rant, if you don't mind, just to get it out my system, so that I can get on with the rest of the weekend. Just want to update on my rather panicked post earlier, probably just over-reacting, in fact, I feel like I am compared to what others go through on here, but I find it very difficult to think in any way clearly when FW is here.

And I kind of hope if I write things down, it will not be in my head, and I can enjoy the rest of the week with DCs. If someone could post something, anything after this post, so it doesn?t stay the last one, that would be great ? I want to hide it in here. Because it would be very obvious to him who I am should he find it.

Basically, I offered some weeks ago to take DCs down to his over Easter and stay in a hotel, so that the children (DCs and his DD (my SD)) could see each other. My DD and SD are very close, and one reason I hesitated over ending the relationship. But he said he was away the fortnight (he is taking his DD to his parents. I also figure that he is going to his exes (SD?s mums) wedding as it falls in the time he is away? we were all invited, but I basically said I did not want to go and one of the things which precipitated the end of our relationship was the fact that he then tried to rather aggressively persuade me.

Anyway, what he said this morning when he was here to see DC2 was that his ex and her DH to be are coming over in a couple of months and he will be having DD while they are here and he wants the children to see each other (this all sounds very reasonable, but he lives several hours away, so it is not like he can just pop round and his ex and her DH to be are coming to where I live, not where he lives). He said this in front of DD, when we had not discussed it. I was going out with DD, and he brought it up again before we left, and then again at the end of his time with DC2. I followed silver?s advice and asked him to email me the dates and what he proposed and did not depart from this stance.

At the end of the day, he also asked me about the Easter weekend and I said I had changed my plans. He then started shouting at me for not telling him, and I said I was telling him now. (I have had a stressful week at work, big car bills and am very tired, at this point, I also had a headache. I have changed plans at the last minute based on what my sister is doing, and my level of fatigue and just wanting to be at home, but did not really want to go into the whys and wherefores (again in front of DCs) so when he pressed me on why I had changed my plans, I just said several reasons). He asked me if I was not going to tell him what those reasons were. I said no, I?m not, cue more shouting about me not talking to him, I said, well, I am talking to you, he said, no you are not, I said, well, I?m sorry that you feel that, he said, no, you don?t need to be sorry, except this was said still in a quite aggressive manner, so clearly I should be sorry.

The thing with SD?s visit is that by the third iteration of this conversation (before he left) he said he was not going to stay here in a hotel with SD (I had not said anything). I feel like if he really wanted DCs to see each other, he would not be going away over Easter, he would have discussed it with me, but he didn?t, I just found out he wouldn?t be here when I asked him about Easter. When SD is here, it is in DDs term time. No-one has asked me about dates. I don?t know what I am supposed to do.

Then there are other things like there was no food in the house because I had not been shopping yet, so I went out to get things so that he could make DC2 lunch, when he said he was not going to take DC2 out in the morning, but then I didn?t have the right stuff so he was complaining about that; him snapping at DD when she answered a question intended for me, snapping at DD for not tidying away her things from the table, when they (he and DC2) had also been doing stuff at the table, these kind of things, small things, but I?m just tired and the level of anxiety I have when he is here makes me feel ill, and that doesn't help.

So, yes, on one hand, I think I am overreacting, he is just reacting badly to the fact that I have ended the relationship and I don?t deserve any better treatment, on the other hand, I think well, it was like this before I ended it, this is why I ended it ? though it is not obviously abusive, it is not nice either. And I somehow need to find the strength to draw more boundaries, without damaging his relationship with DC2. I?m feeling bad because I didn?t call him out on snapping at DD when she was trying to be helpful. I do just want to tell her at some point that he is a bully and it?s not her, and she need s to recognise that, but I can?t because he is DC2?s dad.

That apart, I hope that silver is not snowed in anywhere in Ireland, weather looks dreadful, though maybe being snowed in would be a good thing for her! tis, I haven't been following GB's thread, but I wish her well, by the sounds of it. I wish everyone well.

foolonthehill · 23/03/2013 21:53

I was musing on the fact that here is a great place to hide facts and knowledge in an easily retrievable and yet highly anonymous place.

foolonthehill · 23/03/2013 22:00

on the other hand, I think well, it was like this before I ended it, this is why I ended it ? though it is not obviously abusive, it is not nice either. And I somehow need to find the strength to draw more boundaries

this hand is right

and the boundaries will not affect your ex's ability to have a relationship with DC, unless he chooses to punish you through her (quite likely)...and if that happens it would have happened anyway.

he is an ex for a reason, and he keeps showing you how right you were!

minkembra · 23/03/2013 22:33

After post on previous thread re. reading over back story and sending out a search party if they are not back by Christmas, does anyone fancy doing a quick round up of their current status for new arrivals, lurked and regulars. i am ashamed to admit i still get muddled up who is where sometimes.

Me. minkembra was with my ex for 7 years although for various reasons we kept our on houses. we have 2 dcs plus to more much older dcs who are his.

Split up just over 2 months ago. at which point i realised he was EA (and from EA background). main forms of abuse-chronic failure to take responsibility for himself, cocklodging, scapegoat goating treating me like a skivvy and lots of shouting, ranting and swearing.

He sees the dcs for a few hours a week.

And as the song says 'ain't missing you at all'. and i am starting to feel ok having got my head round the realisation he won't change and it wasn't what I deserved.

Feel very lucky to have found this thread, Thanks to gave good friends in RL and that getting rid of ex was pretty painless as we had no assets to sort out.

...and i can knit my way outta most things. (nellie styleGrin)

BreatheandFlyAway · 23/03/2013 22:43

Fool how right you are. I printed out my notes from here (mine only, no-one else's privacy breached btw Smile, the wonders of C&P) to take to cafcass meeting. I didn't show them but was able to glance at notes and have it all to hand. It's contemporaneous and I would imagine valid therefore in legal terms.

Tis great news re GB, you have obviously done a wonderful amount of helping so Thanks for you! Also well done to your pupils, great news! Smile

Snow I have that issue, too, with not wanting to slag off fw but needing to let dcs know that some things are fucking ridiculous wrong that he says/does. I have given in to it more recently because I feel it is important for them to know that manipulation and bullying and wrong footed dogmatism are not acceptable - and neither are physical intimidation or roughness of any type. I think as long as we're not doing what I myself experienced as a child - constant belittling and vicious slagging off of both parents about the other. Trouble is, I have guarded too well against this, so now I am trying to ensure kids get balanced view in that they see a reasonable and calm POV from me.

BreatheandFlyAway · 23/03/2013 22:49

Good idea mink.

I have been with fw for around 20 years, two dcs. We are separated but under same roof while I seek divorce. Have experienced intense EA, occasional dv, constant VA, much gas lighting. I have been lying on the bottom of the ocean for a long time since straw that broke camel's back in 2010 (violent and degrading incident). Since then I've slowly climbed to the surface thanks to this thread, some relate counselling by myself, a mega blow up with police reports and a court prohibitive steps order, cafcass meeting and now our separation is very well established and my next step is issuing D. But waiting till fw is back at work (on holiday at home now) because otherwise he'd be even more unbearable if I serve while he's at home 24/7.

BreatheandFlyAway · 23/03/2013 22:50
foolonthehill · 23/03/2013 22:57

I am married to NSDH 15 years but finally got him out of the house 18 months agoShock. We have 4 DC all at primary school. Following some spectacular fuckwittery post separation they do not have face to face contact, only skype and phone. he is blocking my divorce and at this point i may have to roll over as no money to drag out a contested divorce.

He is lazy, entitled mostly EA, VA and Financially A..but extended this to DCs as well as me. His brother is same. Both use faith and religion to excuse their actions and to keep their women folk in check.

he is OUT of the family home.
And in the words of the very lovely Miss swift...we are never, ever getting back together...he just hasn't realised i mean it yet!

minkembra · 23/03/2013 22:59

breath good metaphor re. coming to surface. can just about picture you swimming to the surface and getting lungfuls of fresh air. what a journey. but nearly there. good luck issuing D.

Thanks Wine the bar is quiet tonight but the fire is roaring in the corner drinks are on the bar and the fWS are barred.

minkembra · 23/03/2013 23:01

fool Wine here is to having a LAF (life after fuckwit).

TheSilveryPussycat · 23/03/2013 23:04

Not going till tomorrow, and little snow is forecast, if any, touch wood!

snow well done for not giving reasons re plan change - none of his business. Don't worry about the other plan till you get his detailed proposal. (It sounds like he was hoping to railroad you into letting him stay - not a thing that's easy to put in writing without sounding like a dick)

He's visiting at your house? If no food for DC lunch, maybe you could text him to buy something on the way.