Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Breathe
Saying that is just pure meanness, designed to hurt you. What a catch he will be for any future gf!

And your counsellor is right, he is being so horribly abusive. I wonder if he would have bothered to say all that if he didn't have his little audience (ie your vulnerable DCs). Just awful. Sending you ((hugs)). Was DD's anxiety related to what he said/did? (Probably a daft question, how could she not have been anxious after him saying all that.)

mink, what a coincidence that he's fallen out with DC1 now that you are not around to arrange everything and make it right! What you said about you all staying with your parents reminded me that FW would take his DDs on holiday every year. And would invariably cut the holiday short and come home early. He told me he just found it too much on his own - then why go away for a whole week, year after year? Why make the poor girls feel awful again that their holiday is being cut short and feeling responsible? It's all about being seen to take them on holiday and being such a great dad. The girls told me once that their gran came for a few days on one holiday, and they had to beg her to speak to their Dad about his constant shouting at them. Doesn't sound like much of a holiday for them, but I guess FW got what he needed out of it, so that's all that matters.

Yes, the shouting in front of (and at) the children is daily here as well.

Yesterday I told him he was responsible for his own behaviour and he needed to stop shouting and swearing in front of the children. Apparently, since he's getting counselling, he's "working" on it, and until he figures out why he's doing it and gets a plan to stop, I'm supposed to "deal with it." Like hell, I am.

And he said today he wants a "day off from responsibility". I said "when's my day off?" His response - you will get all day off in september when they are both in school. But they won't be in school all day, they get up at 5am and are up until 7, and then after they go to bed, I have to clean kitchen and get more laundry done. And they're up during the night as well. And I do ALL school runs, because I can drive and he can't. What a FW.

mink - meant to say that DS1 finally got his first appointment with the WA child support services yesterday. A lovely lady came to the house and talked to the both of us. And DS1 made me really proud how he coped and dealt with all she was saying, and was able to make decisions for how he wanted his sessions to 'look' (in terms of length of time and where they would take place). It's taken a while, because their resources are sadly stretched, but I am glad he's finally getting some help. Would your local WA offer something similar?

Feeling a bit... funny today. Had a counselling session, went into it thinking 'not much has happened lately, what will I talk about?'. Yet, somehow, we got onto talking about the thing that has been on my mind lately. We talked about I feel stuck, my mind is still whirling with all the things that happened and replaying the incidents, I can't seem to move on or move past. And she said: 'It puts me in mind of what happens in cases of sexual assault.'
And I have been thinking a lot about what happened in that department. I still struggle with labelling it what it was (and really, it wasn't anything like as bad as others have been through), but it's been playing on my mind. I can now say that he was abusive. I can say he was sexually abusive. But I still can't apply it to me in terms of 'I was sexually abused' ... whatever. I am not even sure if it was. (Even though I know in my heart it probably was.)

Anyway. later!!!!!

Alice, that's just so self-centred and selfish, it's stunning! You do not have to 'deal with it', that's not how it works. You are entitled to expect that you (and the DCs) can live free from abuse, whether he's abusing because he's depressed (unlikely) or whether he's abusing because he's abusive (much more likely). If it was physical abuse, even he would know that it's not on for him to say 'until I know why I am hitting you and work out how to stop, I will continue to hit you, and you just need to put up with that.'

How's the exit planning coming?

Alice indeed. perhaps as he does not know why he is shouting, He should stop doing it until he knows he has a good enough reason to do it.

Pony he actually fell out with dc1 over a year and a half ago. it was a constant source of arguments between us as i took dc1 s side mostly. he had a point but he insisted on making his point so badly and unpleasantly that see was never going to see it. we split up not ling after they fell out partly because it was all he could talk about. and because he could nite get at her he took it out on me- verbally. so obviously when we got back together he tried to tell her it was all her fault that we split. naturally. could not be his.

Year and half later he is still sulking.
Had similar issues with dc2 few years back when he could not pursue same interests as ex he said well in that case i won't see him. i tried explaining that you are the parent, the grown up.

He likes to make ultimatums.

Glad your ds is getting counselling.

My 2 were not exposed to too much, i hope, so mostly they need to talk about how they feel about the split i think. i don't want to label their dad as abusive in front of them as it will be traumatic. The school has an informal drop in service. so i will try to get them that.

pony v sorry you are still unearthing abuse iyswim. but i suppose it is better out than in. and brave of you to name.

Aw mink, still sulking??? Who's the adult here? (But not surprising, really, that he blames the problems on something/someone else)

That's odd though, you say I'm brave to name it, makes me immediately want to deny that I have and say 'nooooo, it's all fine....'. Ishooooooos!

breathe . I'm and for your DC and what your Fws have said in front of them. Can you take a glimmer of hope from what greengrass says about her DS being totally transformed since leaving? There is hope for all our DC. Life without FW will be so much better for them as well as us. It'll just take time.

pony glad your son is getting the help he needs. You must be so proud of him handling it so well. And well done for naming the sexual abuse. Sometimes naming the abuse and forcing yourself to admit and recognise it is the hardest part. But it's still tough

alice a 'day off' is definitely a FW staple phrase. Obviously as mothers a day at home looking after the children is a day off until in my case H is at home for a while as a SAHP and suddenly is soooo tired after looking after DD all day

mink* a year and a half sulk! Wowsers. That's impressive, even by FW standards

pony ishoos that you is dealing with though onwards and upwards!

Who is the adult?

That was what actually did it for me. there was not a lot to choose between my dt2 having a strop at age 5 and her df. and i thought at least she will grow out of it. plus she wad copying his style and it had to stop. choice between him or my dcs, no contest.

also choice between grin and bear it through 2 kids growing up through difficult stages or 3 kids one if whom is over 6 ft and never going to grow out of
this particular annoying phase. Another no brainer.

Question- does anyone else ever tthink their FW is actually 2 different people who.look very alike?

I used to joke about FW and other FW (although to be fair other FW was the one who was not actually a FW iyswim)

it was actually like there were 2 people in there. i would say something to one of them and then half an hour later be talking to the other one and he had no recollection of the conversation having happened. i used to say 'oh that is right I told other FW' or 'ask other FW he knows all about it'. It really was a standing joke early on and when his ex heard it once she obviously knew exactly what it meant.

Yes in the sense that there is 'nice' FW and 'nasty' FW. So if he is in a good mood then he can be lovely, great fun, even thoughtful. But sadly nice FW only surfaces when everything is going his way and noone is questioning him.

And I do think he ignores me/zones out and rewrites history so that previous conversations didn't happen.

I don't know any of his exes so haven't ever managed another point of view. Would be intresting to find out though ...

Even when neither of them was being nasty there still seemed to be times when things just did not connect. he seemed genuinely baffled sometimes.

i think he does have some kind of disorder. but it is not my problem. just hope it is not hereditary.

alice yy to them thinking being at home with dcs is our day off. I am working now but when I was still searching for work, I was still running our small on the side business, running the house, doing some freelancing etc etc and most importantly looking after dcs. But no, I was ?swanning around all day reading magazines?

pony for you re the weird time you had in counselling. You are doing so well, I?m full of admiration

bounty and everyone, thank you for your kind words and support re fw?s latest.

mink yy to dcs and fws having similar strops, but the difference being several decades and feet! I said to my counsellor that I feel like I live with a 13 YO husband (in a non weird way btw!) And also yy to the two different fws. I used to feel that too and even commented on it - ie where's the nice H today? But now they've merged into one fw! But it's disconcerting and wobble making when the old, nice H pops his head out occasionally IYSWIM. I think that's where the underlying sadness (apart from obvious causes like kids' suffering and abuse etc) comes from

Anyway I am on sofa near roaring fire in the Vixens, with my electric blanket on the sofa under me, the cat on his little tartan blanket on top of me and a plate of ryvita, marmite and olives (weird but that?s all the snackage that was available!). Also of course a nice Cheers!

Bounty, But sadly nice FW only surfaces when everything is going his way and noone is questioning him. And I do think he ignores me/zones out and rewrites history so that previous conversations didn't happen.

OMG you ARE married to my fw too, eh?!? Spot on re the first point, that put paid to any lingering maudlin thoughts on my part

Yy to nice FW being wobble inducing! I guess that's the charmer we fell in love with. Now my decision is made and plan in action I actually feel relieved when nasty FW returns as I then know I've made the right decision.

And yes they are all tiny variants of the same. Quite funny really when they ALL think that they are unique and better than everyone else.

I'll have marmite on toast to go with a nice large wine. Marmite is banned in our house as h does not like it and it makes me stink (allegedly). Another thing to enjoy introducing dd to once we have our own house with no fw rules.

In this house I will always use the hot tap to wash my hands (gasp). This is a Terrible Thing in our house!

bounty, the hot tap was also banned for me. It must not be used to wash the dishes. I was supposed to boil the kettle.

Match that has made me laugh a bit cos I honestly thought that only my FW could have such a ridiculous rule. Now please tell me that you also have to use crockery at least twice before washing it up and preferably 3 times cos then I will definitely have fw bingo full house.

Hot tap wtf?!?
Ex used to fill kettle to the top boil it so it spilled all over the work top and then use the hot water anyway. 1) to make the point he was doing the my dishes 2) because i paid the bills 3) cleaning the work top. Not his job. Ffs he gas just done the my dishes what is he? like a domestic slave.

Also removing plug from sink after dishes. clearly not his job. no way he could ever actually do something without leaving me to do some of it.

maybe i was the control freak in my house.

We cannot be 'wasteful' in this house which using hot water clearly is! Mink I hope you thanked him as he oh so clearly deserved everytime he was so wonderful to do the dishes be your slave . But then this is the man who thinks time with his own dc equals free childcare for you isn't it!

Mink my h always manages to never quite finish a job so that I end up having to do something. It's so it never quite seems worth asking him to do anything as it's quicker just to do it myself properly in the first place.

Well I can use it but every time I do I get a big tut and he says "it's pointless using the hot tap cos it won't be running hot by the time you've finished" and then chunters about my wasteful ways. Especially if I leave it to run before using it like a normal person so that it's warm. And major strop alert if he happens to notice me using the hot tap and then later in the day there is not enough hot water if he suddenly fancies a shower.

These are the things i am working on with the kids-
-they should do things that they can do for themselves and not leave bits of their tasks for me.
-dc1 can do her own things without dc2 jumping in and doing them for her ( even if it is quicker as dc1 is getting lazy)
No sentences involving 'you [insert name calling]'
And
'never sometimes happens and always rarely occurs'. as in don't say 'you never do this', she is always first etc.
Never is a special word only used in sentences where it matters like NEVER get in a car with a stranger.

trying to give them some boundaries.