Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Oh and i am having dark rye ryvita with beetroot. Mmmmnnn. and vodka. and Miranda.

bounty yy to FW not finishing a job he has taken on. (Was going to write 'grudgingly taken on' but actually that goes without saying.) In particular putting away washing up (I let it air dry on drainer). There would always be a few things left on the drainer, so I could never tick a job off my mental list when he'd agreed to do it. Also if he did agree he'd do it, that meant he'd do it sometime in the next day or two if I was lucky.

silvery so true. it is rule 1 in the book of entitlement.
And Yy to saying thankyou. the number of times i got told i did not thank him enough.
If he did empty dishwasher or drainer he just left the dishes lying out for me to sort.

Once, once in his house i put a spoon in the fork section in the drawer. did i hear the end of it??

Okay. I must put this in writing before I lose it. Mainly because of history rewrites.

So. as I said previously H says he cannot control his behaviour (ie shouting and swearing at me and the children) but that he is in counselling to learn why he does it and to figure out a plan to stop, so we just have to deal with it until then. Even though he is perfectly capable of controlling it in public or in front of other people (and I think we ALL know what THAT means, don't we?). He only seems unable to control it when we are alone.

But...

He was ranting at our 6yo yesterday, who has SNs/disability and literally CANNOT control himself. He was saying that DS needed to control his behaviour. If I hadn't heard it myself, I would never have believed anyone could be so utterly stupid.

He is an adult, but cannot be expected to control his nasty behaviour, however, he expects his disabled 6yo son to control his?

It's a really good thing he's gone most of today (and the next few days) due to work, or there would be a huge huge blow up here. Oh, for a minute or two alone with his counsellor, because I am willing to bet she's not getting the full story.

Alice just awful! terrible for DS . Again, could be statement made by any FW! certainly ex here. I agree, probably wasting his time at counsellor, and be prepared for him coming back with things the 'counsellor said' about you, and how its your fault (mine did - such obviously uncounsellor thngs to say, and very nasty).

at least he's gone! FW!

Hi Alice..is there any plan for his counsellor to discuss with you at any point? If its all around treatment of family, surely they only get his warped perspective?

No. He goes to individual counselling. I can't see him agreeing to me being there. lol

Oh. Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book? I took from that that any decent programme for domestic a users has to involve the wronged party, otherwise it's all hearsay and often more manipulation?

to Dippy's comment. Depends on the counsellor too, and what the counsellor 'thinks/is told' the client FW is there for???!!! (cos my wife is horrible to me/made me see you/is insane/would drive anyone mad/poor me I need help because I live with her/I get a bit cross sometimes and I'm an amazingly virtuous man to admit that-but she would drive anyone to it).

Oh, ok sorry..I joined the thread late. That's a shame. My xh had massive anger issues..when he finally agreed to mention to doctor, he came out with a referral to relate and gp saying how difficult life had been for him!

One of the reasons I had to break away from xh was because I could not stand his treatment of my dc especially the one with special needs, I thought of the future and shuddered.

that's pretty much where I am headed right now Dippy. He's all concerned and patient in front of others though. Definitely massive anger issues - he can get annoyed at someone else and I get the lecture/rant.

I told a friend about his behaviour and H was horrified that I'd said something. "What will they think?" Well, that you're an abusive twat? You could just SEE him mentally trying to put that in a "I can't help my behaviour, I'm depressed" box.

I'm letting the ball drop here and there. Not great consequences, I'll admit, sometimes, but I simply cannot be his "responsible adult" anymore. So he's run out of his meds (and is now scrambling to sort that) and he has not checked to see if his work uniform is washed (it is, but only because I've caught up on the laundry - it's under a pile of clean washing, so he'll have to find it).

He'll come home this afternoon to tell me he's making "real progress" in his counselling, but then when I say "so the shouting should be a thing of the past, right?" he'll say "oh, well, we're not THAT far..." do we have a "roll eyes and yell bullshit" smiley? We really need one!

LeClerc seems like those abusers programmes just teach them how to avoid getting caught or how to do it more effectively. Or maybe that's just my view... I don't think I'm up to joint therapy with him - He would only be happy with someone that would support his views.

I think if you can get away with telling others of his actions without fear of his actions escalating against you, this is a good way to keep you safe as public/peer pressure is huge, but only you can know whether his actions will escalate, and actually many of us probably would have sworn to their actions not getting worse, and then they did.

I am smiling and thinking 'go girl' about facing him with it, but i'm also worrying about how much it might take to make him think you need 'properly telling' ??? very scarey!

You're spot on about only trying to manipulate therapy into supporting his views, joint therapy doesn't work in abuse situations, and you're right about the abuser prog too, aka how to become a happy abuser

Fi I told myself recently that I was not going to just allow it to continue unchallenged. Still not ready for split yet, but until I am, I am challenging the behaviour. I will not sit back and allow verbal abuse of my children. Thank goodness he is back to work and that lowers the confrontation level a bit. Keeps my sanity to be honest.

Yes, I suppose the escalation is there slightly. But not nearly the level other people are dealing with. I'll watch my step. Have been in much worse situations with previous relationship, so I'm careful to some extent. But I AM pushing back now. If I didn't, I think I'd go mad.

I think you also get a whole new guilt trip when you stop being thei responsible adult! Concerned and patient in front of others, mine was too. Lovely socially then I too would get the rant! Makes you feel you are going mad as spend ages trying to work out which person they really are. Took me ages to understand that trying to hold a mirror up to his behaviour makes very little difference as he will always feel entitled and justified to behave that way!
I also was lectured on not discussing the details of my concerns, his behaviour, our arguments, with others as 'they only get your perspective and are bound to take your side as friends' (subtext: your perspective is wrong and I need to undermine and manipulate you so you don't get outside validation). then moves nicely into the ' no one knows you like I do, if they did, they would not be able to put with your pregnancy hormones/unfair questioning as to why it takes two hours to go and buy a loaf of bread/unfair protests about me wanting to,spend all my spare time stoned'. Oh the joys!
Is no better as an ex but it vastly limits my exposure to him. Still tries the sympathy card and I've got caught up in it, but eventually if I am totally neutral I know I will just go away (off into the night, my fault that he just could not stay in touch with our children...he told me this is on the cards in the next year, will return to home country and 'will not be able to support dcs financially or keep in touch then...WHAT DO I DO WITH THAT?
Sorry, turned into a rant there :)

Er, he will just go away, not me

compleley get that! and thats what makes me think, go girl!

the level of escalation can be dangerous tho, thats a serious worry, it doesn't take much to badly injure a child - we've all thought they wouldn't do that; I used to think he was a good dad - just heard about cruel manipulations where he promised DD money toward a special somthing being saved for, if school results were good, school results were very good (more important, and only thing that matters to me is the amount of dedication and effort made against a very difficult background of FW this year, so i treated for that), when she asked outright for the promised contracted money deal to appear, the answer... 'educaton has its own rewards' nasty nasty FW. How cruel.

but anyway, that was my rant. I'm not sure how well we know the monsters that we have cohabited with, and to stay safe at all costs. Does that make sense? As I do admire your feisty approach, and knock it, but to stay safe xxx

can't knock it...

We tried joint counselling and it was a waste of time. dh just saved up all his complaints about me and then spent an hour listing them. He thought it helped because he wasn't losing his temper at home In the end I told him it wasn't working for me and we both discussed it with the counsellor but her response of 'oh, how can I help you to engage more?'! wasn't particularly helpful. You can't engage with someone who is utterly convinced they are justified in any action or thought just because it's their's. The counsellor just became an audience for him.

FW today asked me if I would dry his dishes for him because he's injured his wrist (). I told him I don't even dry them myself, just let them drain and then he let some snide response come out as that was one of his criticisms of my lax housekeeping. Y'know, how dare I, after cooking them meal, clearing away and washing the dishes, NOT also dry them?!

*the

I dip in and out of this thread, but just wanted to waved quickly at Dippy - I remember your threads when you were wondering about leaving, and my bosom swells with pride that he is now well and truly your ex.