Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

DS is transformed since we moved out. My H was always trying to turn him against me and he had to listen to him swearing and calling me names and smashing things then telling DS it was all my fault. Now DS is much happier.

Green, how long have you been out? I have been out for nearly a year, but only been properly 'done' with him for about 4 months. I can understand what you mean about finding the no contact difficult - in the early days after i left, I would long for a text from him, because I so badly wanted him to show me he was thinking of me, and maybe it would say he was sorry and reach out to me. But when I did get one, I then felt sick with anxiety as all the reasons why i left would come rushing back. (And the texts he sent bounced madly between him feeling sorry for himself, proclaiming his undying love to me, and being aggressive and horrible. I never knew which it would be.)

I know I am still grieving for the husband I loved, it's like a bereavement in some ways because the man I loved is gone, completely (in truth, he didn't actually exist). Give yourself a lot of time to heal. It will be a bumpy ride, there will be good days and ones where you backslide. I still miss my husband. But I don't miss being with him. IYKWIM.

And the fact that your DS is transformed is fantastic, and speaks volumes. Both of you could probably do with some counselling or something of that nature? WA have been great at helping my DS, he's starting a regular session with one of their workers in a few weeks.

Good luck to you Grass, we're here. For the journey.

green grass sorry you sound like you have had a thoroughly rotten time.

Yes i think the grief is a normal stage and wishing things had worked. all the time and hope you invested. and also if you stay out you have to admit to yourself that, yes, really he was abusive.

But you have done brilliantly. you are clearly very resilient. and without him your life will get better and you will get stronger. but you have suffered a terrible injury to your self. it takes time to heal. (and sometimes scabs are itchy )

fi thinking of you. lots of camomile tea needed and some distraction.

Has anyone had the misfortune to come across the extremely odious Mike Buchanan. he has bn on some mn threads manspainling (great word ) and is leader of justice for men and boys (got nothing against the other gender myself but) he is a thoroughly objectionable anti feminist misogynist and offender against statistics of the worst kind. my head wants to explode. and i would bet money that he is emotionally abusive. he has some thoroughly rank views on dv too. If you don't know who i mean i would say look him up but only if you are fully stocked up on blood pressure medicine and fancy a boak.

Manspainling incidentally is the prefect word for the patronizing tone ex takes on his blog.

Hope all are well.
I am bit down after Easter weekend. the kids were wanting their dad. All i could say was sorry. Apart from gift ambush when they were in bed they have not heard from him for over a week. i have texted to say he can call them. No reply.

Don't know what to do about the minimal contact thing. it is so unfair. ex can sometimes be shamed into doing the right thing and sometimes realise himself that he is being unfair to the kids but i don't know if it is worth spending time and energy trying to discuss it with him. it lets him know i am bothered and that gives him a lever. but if i do nothing it will stay as is.

And i could cry for dd saying she just wants her dad back home.

And a completely deluded part of me misses our family days out (all of course organised by me) but we did have some good times. So i am a bit [busad] don't want him back. just sad. we could have had a family.

It's only been a few weeks and it didn't go as planned as I wanted to stay in my home. Still hoping to go back at some point if the courts can get him out. I find the no contact dulls the memory a bit of all the horrible things. When I saw him a lot I was desperate to get free. Interesting to hear it could take about eight months. He is leaving me alone ATM. The pattern was that if he thought he had a chance with another woman, and there have been plenty in the last year, he would not be bothered about me so that probably explains him ignoring me and its best for me that it continues. Interesting too that WA do sessions for DCs.

greengrass fingers crossed you get him out. when i do miss ex i have some unpleasant emails he sent to remind me (the poor dcs have no such reminder so they just miss him)
As we often say on this thread it never takes them long to show true colours and make us happy we left. so i suppose no contact is a double edged sword.

Ps they say in general for relationships 1 month for every year (to recover) so i am reckoning i need at least another 4.

mink he's an utter shit. How could he not get in contact with his own DCs? Poor them. It does seem as if his only reason for staying in contact is to lever control with you - get you running after him trying to encourage more contact, or else not contacting them and knowing how that makes you feel. I don't know what the answer is. I do know what you mean about the family days out though. But I am the same - we did have some good times, but they were almost all spoiled in some way by his temper or sulks. I am sad for what could have been rather than missing what I had.

I've been out nearly 6mths now. I feel pretty detached emotionally to be honest, but think I'd checked out of the relationship a couple of years ago really. We are able to get on and be around each other for the dc, but I don't miss being in the house or living with him at all. DD is much more relaxed at home. DS asks for FW a lot though and I do feel a little guilty that he doesn't get to see his dad as much as he wants. They do see him 3-4 times a week though.

Not going to defend him but no i think he genuinely wants to keep in touch with the kids and also feels duty bound to do so (he is appearances to the contrary quite big on family and being seen to do right) but against that he has his spite.

So he is doing bare minimum to a)avoid me getting 'free childcare' and b) salve his own conscience.
He probably thinks he is brilliant for making any effort at all. after what i did!

He is lazy. so he always does least possible but because it is so hard for him and his time is so precious his 3 hours is equivalent to another persons 10.

Really he is a hero.

Ah yes, I make sure any plans I make for the time the dc are with him aren't mentioned as then he plays the 'free childcare' card. No, you are looking after your own children!

match 3-4 times per week would be more than my two saw their df when we were together he was more high days and holidays hence them missing him at Easter

but if your ds was used to seeing him a lot it must very tough.

I know if i say the dcs miss you he will just say well whose fault is that eh?

And if i push him he will just go for the you are do lucky i gave you kids you ate the one who wanted them and are ungrateful.

tis re replacing the dcs my mum said that about me. i had a brief life threatening illness as a kid. the doc said could go either way. When see told me (yrs later) i said what would you have done if i had died. she said 'had another. we had you as a friend for your sister. But if it had happened before you were born we wouldn't have replaced your sister' i think /hope she was mostly joking!

You ate are the one who wanted them.
I did not eat any children.

He didn't spend large blocks of time with them when we were together-it was an hour at the end of the day. At weekends he would get on with jobs outside most of the time and we'd do our own thing. Now, of course, all contact is playtime so daddy seems like a hero who plays cars with him to ds.

Yep, mink, it's all about him, and about appearances. As long as it looks like he's putting in effort doing the bare minimum and being the big family man with his darling DCs, then it doesn't matter what they are actually getting out of it (not much, by the sounds of it).
My FW is the same - I think I've said before how he would tell the girls to 'straighten their faces'. Didn't matter if they were upset, so long as they looked happy to be with him and completed his fantasy family idyll.

Anyway, on that note, am off to bed. Well, am already in bed (and have been for hours). But am actually going to sleep, child-willing.

I'll make it past 10.30pm for the Vixens lock-in one of these nights...

mink [bushock] at your mum!!!!

And yy Matchsticks - my FW, the big family man. So how come every weekend, he would be outside in the garden doing DIY. Or making a garden bench (or other random made-up task). Or moving satellite dishes. Or making bread/pizza/enormous meal that used up every pan in the kitchen. Or doing anything where he was 'busy-looking' but doing exactly what he wanted to do, while all the stuff related to the kids was left to me. They. Are. All. The. Same.

Ok, no, I really am going now! Night all.

God, Pony your description above is definitely FW to a tee. When I think of the schemes I was expected to support...The construction of a heating system for a 20ft pool he bought was the best.

Mink also [bushock] at your mum!!

Pony and mink - mine is exactly the same - lots of manly garden/DIY, that are his enjoyment anyway, but provide an excellent out for him on childcare and housework and cooking (I work outside the home too but somehow he's always busy with his big "important" tasks at the weekend), but lots of loud moaning and groaning about his back/arm/hand/other appendage that has been worn out with his hard work! So of course he must flop in front of footie as soon as he comes in to "recover".

Sorry Match not mink re the manly tasks similarities!

match glad you have managed to detach and the dc are more settled. the super dad thing is galling but if the kids get more out of him now he has gone i suppose it is win win. (other than the factor)

Who knows my ex will realise there is a lot to be got out of spending time with kids.

But doesn't your FW already have other DCs, mink, grown-up ones? You'd think he'd know that there's lots to be gotten out of his kids by now (and I don't mean just getting the ability to look like a hero). What a shame. It's his loss, but it's also your lovely DC's loss, which is the hard bit.

That was also what I found so hard about my FW's 'look how busy I am' routine - his daughters stayed with us every weekend, so they were they ones being neglected by his big show as well. Every Sunday afternoon after they'd gone home, he'd huff and sigh about how hard he found it that they weren't here any more. To the point where he couldn't bear to have company, just 'vanted to beeee alooooone' so would use this as his excuse not to go to my mum's for Sunday dinner. just couldn't be arsed making an sort of effort for anyone but himself, antisocial git

And on the few occasions that we did 'do' something, he'd expect a fullsome thanks from the girls, of course. He expected them to be so grateful for just being a normal Dad - reminds me of how we all have at various times been grateful for our FW's being nice to us, when really they were just being normal (ie not being awful). He's setting those girls up nicely for their future relationships.

Sorry, early morning, can't sleep, am rambling...

yy to gratitude for them just not being a twunt.

he does have (almost) grown up kids. I thought based on the amount of time he spent with them post split- not oodles but at least one night per week, that he would do similar with these kids.
I only witnessed his relationship with older kids once we were properly a couple and he did quite a lot with them. but then I realised he did quite a lot with them once I was there. coincidence? probably not seeing as it was me who was organising most of it although he did e.g. take them on holiday occasionally
although he did have them overnight before that I think mostly they went to the cinema and then maybe played outside as he was online as awful lot of the time.

previous gf actively disliked kids and there was a 5 month period when his ex (allegedly) stopped him from seeing them. I only have his word for that. her probably tells other people I don't let him see dcs.

we will see what happens this week.

when we used to stay with my parents- where my mum and I cooked, my dad plays with the kids a lot, helps with tidying cooking etc. and ex did a wee bit of helping out, he used to complain on the way home about being exhausted from spending soooo much time with the kids same if we had been on holiday with his older kids.

I think he thinks, kids nice idea, must have accessory but mainly a burden to be endured.

plus he has fallen out with one of the older dcs as he can no longer control communicate effectively with dc1.

...and i think because on one occasion years ago during a row i said why do spend so little time with our children? you actually do more to help your ex out with your otehr kids than you do with your current gf (me) and our kids. is this not a partnerhsip. i woudl be better off if i were your ex.

he probaly remembers this and is making sure it isn't so.

although I am sure he has forgotten the bit of that row where he said 'well I never bloody wanted them in the first place. They are your kids, you wanted them, you deal with it' or words to that effect. (this or variations on this were said many times)

mink going back to the shocking "we can have some more dcs" comment, I have just had a nasty little memory of FW saying to me that if there was a fire, and he had to choose who to rescue, he would have to rescue his sister not me because you can get another wife/girlfriend but you can't replace a sister. Nasty bastard will now find out that he will indeed need to replace a wife/gf.

The other night he screamed at me about breaking the family in front of kids, threatened to leave country while we were away (in front of dcs) if we went ahead on our pre-planned overnight trip to dm's (to which he was invited but didn't come), told me I was evil, the family was breaking up because of me, not him, and told me that one day he would see me crying, begging and praying. All in front of kids. I tried to shield them by taking the fw into his room to rant at me in private and begging him to keep his voice down for kids' sake. His response was to scream that it's my fault he is driven to this.

I told my new counsellor this and she said although she won't do anything without telling me, there may be a stage where she will be obliged to inform SS as what I described constitutes abuse

....and breathe.... sorry needed to let it out and also record.

DD was ill with anxiety throughout the trip to dm's.

breath I think that was tis's FW who said that about having more kids. (it was my mum who joked about replacing me) my FW thought he already had too many kids

at your h re sister though. indeed he will get to find out how easy it is to find another gf.

also sorry to hear FW has been being so horrible. it can't be over soon enough now. he will always blame you. God forbid he should actually grow up and take responsibility for himself. Is there any point telling him that screaming in front of the kids is abusive as if he does not stop it you will report it?

our poor dcs have all seen far too much. I really must make more effort to connect mine with the counselling service at school. I don't want to march them in there and I think they are broadly ok but don't want hem supressing anything that is better off out. I just want them to know it is there if they want it.