Support thread for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships - number 19

[CharlotteCollinsismovingon]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you're dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans - He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change - please don't give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi ya all...just checking in to wave hello. Totally agree Mink people in RL just think why doesn't she just get up and walk out/leave? I have had this said to me by a few RL friends that I have told the jist of the situation here (they have no clue about the PA/SA bit and would be even more on my case). Unless you are in the situation like us all and have that horrible life experience like us then I think its unfair for them to comment like that, as we all know just walking out is easier said than done and we have to be safe doing it. I've been digging my escape tunnel for the best part of 13 years ffs!

Sorry for all those having DC/FW probs...ugghh draining. Bertie hope you can speak with DS vvvvv soon.

Unannounced visits are the bain of my life!!!!! MIL frequently does it to me and just lets herself in the back door if unlocked, it always bloody happens when the house is wrecked too and i get that look of what the hell have i been doing all day off her obviously not cleaning [buhmm]

Speaking of in-laws, what is the protocol after the separation?? MIL and StepFIL are quite close with DC and DC have regular sleepovers there so I guess I will need to remain close to them. However FIL and StepMIL live hundreds of miles away. Both sets of inlaws have an idea things are not great at home here as Ive been dropping hints here and there so FW cant turn it around and blame me when I leave and they know nothing. They all seem to be on my side but I suspect that is because they know the DC will be with me most of the time if we were to separate and well FW has been so unapproachable/rude when they visit. They know nothing of my plans of the new house etc and am keeping it that way until the very last minute. They may appear to be on my side but at the end of the day he is still their son and they may try to "save" our relationship if they knew full extent of my plans. In FILs/SMILs last visit they invited me and DC to go on a trip down south to visit Bro in law. They made it clear it was just me invited and not FW [bushock] I told them id think about it, but it made me feel a bit weirded out. FW may be a FW but I think part of his FWErty stems from his parents rejecting him and that invite excluding him to go visit his own brother and family was just a class example. I don't want to get drawn into something like us all ganging up against FW if that makes sense??? I have my own personal war with FW and just want me and DC to have a nice simple life without the bloosy in-laws jumping onto the bandwagon. Anyone had similar experiences? Just know the pressure from inlaws will prob get worse when the separation does happen, already have MIL asking me 50 questions about mine and FWs relationship everytime she "pops" round on one of her bloody unannounced visits!! Ugghh. Drained!

In other news....been doing lots of secret smuggling to my secret storage place, the caretaker man there must think I am mad!! Sometimes I turn up with a car full of black bags etc and other times with one little carrier bag full of tights! [bugrin] Every little helps!

Sorry to hear about some of us being outed and unable to be on here anymore for support Wonder if we could have a back up plan?? Maybe on something like twitter where we can lock accounts so it will be a closed network. Word count is limited so wouldn't be able to rant etc but could work so we can let each other know we are safe if anything happened and we couldn't get on here??? Just thinking out loud!

Am off to bed now.....FW gone awol, he nipped home for 10mins after work to get changed and spray half a bottle of aftershave on him [buhmm] and off out he went. I've waited long enough so going to claim the bed now and he can pass out on the sofa. Still sleeping with one eye open so know wont sleep properly but at least I can spread out a bit in the bed!

Night all....stay safe lovely ladies xx

Maggie no idea about protocol but [buhmm] about inlaws clearly excluding FW from an invite, I think you're right to sense a bit of a 'red flag' about that-- if they're doing it intentionally and proposing the arrangement without running it past him first. It is fine for them to see the kids but not to start taking sides! I like the idea of tunnelling out... I had a look around the house the other day and decided that everything in it has been his choice, his decision, and I don't want any of it. Even if it was my decision (ie curtains) I would have to get his grudging approval, had to take two sets back to John Lewis before he approved what I'd chosen, and this was when he'd sent me out to get curtains saying 'choose something decent' and evidently I am not capable of that. He feels that he has superior taste and design sensibility to me, his father is the same (architects [buangry] but so am I, my opinion doesn't count) and they have a very 'masculine' approach to decor.

H insisted I get rid of a lovely cherry wood table and chairs (which I brought over here from the USA... they were my grandmother's) in favour of a white shiny IKEA one. I know where it is and am actually thinking of retrieving it when I get my own place. It wasn't something that I was totally in love with but it was a piece of my family history, and just because he thought it was 'horrible' (it wasn't) it had to go, I had no place else to put it so it has been given to a friend, I couldn't get any auction houses to take it which H says proves his point, friend has passed it on to neighbours but I'm sure if I ask for it back and replace it with something else they'll part with it!

Mink I can so agree with you re: LTB... I was surprised to get such a strong reaction when I first posted about H a few months ago, was expecting just a bit of commiseration, but as I've been appeasing him and blaming myself for 20 odd years I think I am better off to bide my time and plan carefully-- but once your eyes have been opened it's hard to see things any other way.

Fi I could totally relate to your post on GB's thread, which I am following as I guess we all are, and I thought that what you said needed saying but I would be too scared to post on there and although her kids are much younger than mine I'm seeing such a parallel with that awful man she lives with and the one I live with, as I'm sure a lot of us do. Waiting with bated breath for the next instalment.

Love these bunnies [bugrin] Happy Easter!

GettingBig sorry I have been off this thread for a while so think I have missed the bit about your other thread - whats it called? Is there a link? Would like to offer support/back up on there for you if you are getting grief from others. Safety in numbers and all that jazz!

Thats that is a great plan to retrieve your table, how awful you had to give it away in the first place. I am no longer "allowed" to purchase anything here but back in the day when I did, it always got slagged off - ranging from it being too 'chingzy' to paying too much for it and then me having to take it back buying a much cheaper shite option. This even happened when it was my own money I had spent on it. Ugghh. You are right about the in-laws taking sides, it makes me feel very uncomfortable but at the same time I need to keep them on board until after I have bolted so they know I am leaving because he is a FW. FW has said on many an occassion that if I left him he would tell everyone I just used him to have children and then left after I got what I wanted (I had to have IVF). I have no doubt he would tell everyone this in a nasty way too so part of my escape plan has been to drop hints to both sides of our families and friends about FW and his behaviour. No one knows the full extent of it, they just think he is being a bit of a alki who is moody too. They would be horrified if they knew the whole story.

Better go....FW passed out on sofa last night but then joined me in bed early this morning - cue him trying to force me into you know what [puke] managed to get away thanks for DS waking and calling for me. Me thinks I will be back to my sofa tonight, the beds still not safe for me and to think after all this time (having slept on sofa since sept and detaching) he thinks I would even want to be intimate with him, he is crazy. He really has no clue and thinks he has me and kids trapped like prisoners here. Hes in for a shock. Better go and log off incase he surfaces, he will want to know what Im doing on computer.....obviously having an affair [buhmm] i wish!

Thinking of you all x (hope Charlotte is ok on the holiday)

GB... we are all cheering for you, I feel that I can relate to all the arguments you put up for staying vs leaving... I too would think very carefully about taking kids out of a school/social setting that they love and are well adjusted to in favour of the unknown... that has been my thinking for many years now but I only discovered the term 'emotional abuse' about 6 months ago and my H ticks all of the boxes.

BTW I don't consider my kids to be as terribly damaged as posters say is inevitable if LTB doesn't happen immediately. I think all kids have things to deal with-- school, friends, teachers, finding their place in the world. My DD has a very keen sense of injustice and I think having experience H's often unreasonable view of the world has helped shape her own idea of right and wrong... hope that makes sense, am typing this quickly as she and I are cooking an Easter feast for friends coming today. All the best xx

You were right ladies....FW didn't turn his phone off....I just spoke to DS

Once again FW was making a threat in an attempt to upset me.

He's moving out next week. yesterday's events just show that distance will be no barrier to the continuation of his FWittery...

I've changed his name on my phone to "STOP! THINK BEFORE YOU REPLY!"

oooo not long now amazeballs Maggie last few days, keeping everything crossed for a quiet last furlong for you... (((hugs))) definitely agreeing with the staying on the sofa away from the sex pest! [buwink]

Bertie yay!!! so glad you spoke to your lovely DS.. ha ha ... I am thinking of trying to make my ring tone the DH song (and that doesn't mean Darling H).

gb I think you'll find things a lot less of a barrage on this thread, its much calmer and less intense.... oh and do come on in, you are v. welcome here fingers crossed that all the other thread posters won't follow! hence putting your name in lower case unbold so you'll be less obvious maybe? Inevitably I guess that you would get a huge mixed bag of advice, some I agree has been absolutely astoundingly insightful, and non-judgemental, and other not so much [buwink].

Happy [safe] Easter bunnies to all xxx

Hey mink this is exactly my situation at the moment. I want to LTNSDH (can't bring myself to say LTB) but I just don't know how. I really want to but I can't! How do I do it? He will be shocked, I know. Do I sit down and say "I'm not happy, I'm not making you happy and I want to separate"? What then? He will beg me to stay and I will cave. What then!!!!

Aarrhvhjjj. Going mad. At least I'm at work today so a break from him but then we're on leave.... I need the pub to be 24 opening this week please landlady.

so kind and considerate MrsM, I think that can be our biggest battle when it comes to leaving, that we don't want to hurt them [buhmm]

It is also the line that can draw you back in after you've left, but forewarned is forearmed or some such rubbish! You know your vulnerable spots, the things that could make you stay, thats the important thing, and when you feel those bits are sufficient steeeled/toughened against his tears, sobs, remorses, then hateful spites when he realises its not working you will be ready [buwink]

I hopeyour leave is a good break for you. Nodding vigorously to a few rousing nights in the Vixens over the hols (it'll be the only place I can drink right now whilst I await biopsy verdicts [bushock] [busad] )

Ahh Fi I missed so much on thread...biopsy results??? Hope you are ok lovely lady? x

Can we have a fancy dress night in the Vixens?! I would love to go as a playboy bunny but am far too fat ahem...curvy for that so may have opt for a jabba the hut nice head to toe rabbit costume instead! scoffs another easter egg whilst stashing more bits away in secret carrier bags (The diet can wait, I need choc and diet coke to keep me going in this living nightmare!)

Hey all and happy Easter [bugrin]

Hope you are all in a land of much chocolate. Bertie so glad that you got to speak to DS. What a shit your FW is, I fully expect the FWittery to keep going (in different forms) after he moves out. But can't wait for you to reclaim your house, and your living room, you've been so strong, spending such a long time in your room every evening. Nearly there, lovely.

MrsM, I know exactly what you mean. I worried more about how upset FW would be when I left than about my own emotions. And I can still upset myself quite a bit by imagining him coming home that day to an empty house, and finding my note... But at the same, time, he is a truly horrible horrible man, and I can say that now. I couldn't at the time, I still wanted so badly for him to redeem himself. Breathe, I totally agreed with what you were saying about feeling the need to defend him if someone else slagged him off. I struggled terribly with that, with my family insisting I must think and act exactly how they thought I should with regard wanting him cut out of my life. They didn't get how emotionally turbulent and contradictory it often was.

I just read another thread from someone who is obviously in an abusive relationship, and reading about the things her FW is doing, which are very similar to what my FW did (intimidating while breastfeeding, more minor PA like pushing, pinching, shouting, banging doors etc). It was a bit of a shock, feeling scared for her when I minimised my own situation so much.

Will try and pop on later for some Vixens action, but am still struggling to stay awake in the evenings. And losing an hour's sleep last night has not helped! for all! (Red Bull for me...)

Maggie - same here, diet coke and anything sweet I can get my sticky paws on. You gotta do what you gotta do... Glad your secret stashing is continuing ok, keep fending him off, and keep staying safe. xx

Oh, and hey to GB ,waves again> - keep posting somewhere, please, you need to rant and get it all out of your head and written down, even if it's an online diary and not MN. It helps. Sometimes, keeping my diary was the only thing keeping me sane.

Hi Pony! Hope you are able to get some rest today. Do you mind me asking what you wrote in your leaving note? That part is making me the most anxious about this whole process- again worried for HIS feelings-coming home to an empty house. They really have brainwashed us hey. I just don't know how I'm going to get out or do it. He works shifts only 10mins away from home so can't exactly get a massive removal van on the day as one of his mates would ring him and tell him. He is always ranting at me nasty telling me and kids to get out of HIS house (its jointly owned) but then the next minute telling me he loves me and wants us to be a happy family. The slightest hint of me and kids making leaving plans he goes crazy. This may sound mental but after I have the new house secured and most of my important bits out to storage I'm kind of hoping for one of his 'episodes' so I can then just bolt using that as an excuse if you know what I mean? Know when I do leave things are going to get a lot harder before they get better and really scared for that bit . Also we have a holiday booked (only to yorkshire) in early may, its all paid for etc, Im hoping to have left my then but what would I do? Not sure I would be happy at all letting him take kids alone so soon after separation. I was going to ask MIL if she wanted to go with 'us' so it would be all planned and kids would have her there when I dropped out but she is going away abroad around the same time any thoughts?? Thanks ladies

Ps-FW working this avo thank god so able to post a bit, will be back to just late night posting from tomorrow as he is off for the week again (using up holiday days) it is DSs birthday soon too and FW making all sorts of 'family' plans for us. God help me.

Hey Maggie - no, don't mind at all, I'll try my best to remember. I actually wrote two - the first one I wrote was fairly stark, along the lines of: I've had enough of your shit, you've been verbally (and physically) abusing me for too long and I've had enough, I wont let the kids grow up like that, how would you feel if one of your daughters was going through what you've done to me. And so on. For a couple of pages.

Then I wrote a second one which was more vague, and shorter. More along the lines of: I think we can both agree this just isn't working, we aren't happy together. I'm paraphrasing (and it was still a page or so long so not that short), but I couldn't for some reason leave the one where I laid it all bare. But I did need to write something, and this was my 'compromise' with myself. I think part of it was that I still felt uncomfortable doing anything that could be seen as provoking his behaviour, and I knew that me leaving was bad enough. I too had planned to wait until he did something that gave me an excuse, but the weekend before I left he was getting very verbally aggressive and physically intimidating, and I felt very scared, and I realised that I couldn't do as I'd planned, because during one of these 'incidents' my instinct was to keep things calm and just get past it, for survival's sake, and I would have been too afraid of escalating things if I attempted to leave during one of them. Plus the kids were usually in bed. So a daytime flit just happened, it wasn't planned, I just snapped one day and had had enough.

(I still have the first letter I wrote, I actually just went to see if I could find it to see what I'd written. I know I have it somewhere, I kept it in my underwear drawer for a while but it's not there, I must have stashed it somewhere else - but I did find some Toy Story jigsaw pieces in my undies!! Thanks DS2!!!! [bugrin] )

Oh, and please try not to worry about the holiday to Yorkshire that's all paid for, don't try and make provision, you'll tie yourself in knots. Who knows what kind of access or contact he'll be getting once you leave - you might decide to go for supervised contact only at the beginning, given how violent and unpredictable he's been. And hopefully no overnights. I would certainly advise against letting his take them on holiday if you've only just left. (Get your solicitor on the case as soon as you leave). But the holiday is a red herring, I think you are focusing on that as an obstacle, but really it isn't. It's his problem once you have gone, not yours.

Thanks so much Pony xx I do feel I need to start getting some sort of leaving note ready as could need to leave any day now in reality. He really doesn't think anything is wrong with our relationship other than my 'quiet moods' (which result from his abuse). I just feel I need to lay it out in black and white to him you know? I may even prepare a powerpoint presentation for him with Lundy live linking in for a guest appearance! All jokes aside, I am absolutely so scared of what is going to happen over the next 2-4 weeks has taken me so long to get to this stage, not sure I can take that final big jump off the cliff anyway thanks again, gonna get back to my secret stashing of stuff. Wish it could be like how a normal couple break up and not how we all feel-so afraid for our lives that we plan our secret escapes for months...years..on end and then do a runner only to find the FWs still don't get it and still try to get into our heads even when we have left. Am fully expecting that from my FW too

so glad you've made it here, that thread was rather overwhelming...

I have never left a leaving note, however, like texts, emails, letters etc stick to the v simple facts! No analysis of his behaviour or your feelings - a FW won't agree or care anyway.

Still away and having a splendid time in London :)

thanks Maggie will find out Tuesday (I'm really hoping, although I don't know for sure).. .keep stashing hun and just leave the briefest of notes, 'I've left, and will make contact via police/solicitor for supervised contact arrangements with the children' (delete as appropriate). Forget the holiday, or trying to accommodate anyone else anymore! Freedom means, freedom from that. You control things once you're out! A totally bizarre phenomenon, I know! (((hugs)))) hun, nearly there, keep feet rooted to floor, and breeeeethe [buwink] xx

I know, I am quaking in my boots and drawin up will

Thanks Fi will be thinking of you ((hugs))

Silver and Leclerc Glad you are both enjoying time away! You both deserve it!

Waves at everyone else, prob won't be able to post now for a bit but will be thinking of you all and will try and check in when I can but don't want to blow cover this close to the end. Thanks everyone for all the support xx back soon I hope!

Comedy moment everyone-FW has bought me an Easter egg from the dc and is most put out that I haven't done the same for him . More shit about the money. Managed to squeeze an extra tenner out of him. He still owes me £20. Apparently I am as money-grabbing as his first wife.
He is also very put out that I have decided to take the dc to a friend's on the coast for a couple of days next week and I 'didn't tell him about it'!
I mean, anyone would think I was SINGLE and don't have to notify him of my every move.

Oh no Fi, that sounds really scary for you! Sending much Vixen-type strong hugs (ie with ) your way. Fingers firmly crossed.

Maggie I think I like Silver's suggestion of bare facts. You've been detached for so long, probably best to keep it that way, for your own sanity. (ie think of your needs out of the situation, not his.) Maybe you could do both notes, as I did? Write about why you are leaving, vent your frustration saying exactly what you think, then fold it up and put it in your pocket, and leave something basic and simple, not giving him any ammo (because, as you say, it makes no difference what you do, he'll still always be an abusive slimeball and will never, ever get it). Will be thinking of you daily.

(And waving a little flag for you having your lovely time, Silver - huzzaaaaaah!!!!!)

Match - how dare you have your own life???? [bugrin] That made me laugh a little about the Easter egg - it's FW's birthday tomorrow, and I'm having to sit on my hands quite a bit not to write him a card from DS2. Because I want to be decent and civil, and be doing all the right things. But really, really don't think I ought to be giving him any sort of card at all, unless it's one containing a special voucher to be redeemed at The Far Side of Fuck.

Leclerc - glad you are getting recharged, you both need and deserve it. That's quite a moment of clarity you had, and yes, I think you are probably right. Their movements in every other aspect and situation are calculated to generate a specific reaction, and everything Lundy says suggests that they are not out of control. So, in all likelihood he wanted you to believe (and to continue believing) he was capable of killing you, in order to keep you where he wanted you. What an utter disgrace for a man of any sort, much less one who claims to be a Christian. Still struggle to believe that a person could behave like that towards another person, but that's only because I never could.

I appear by some miracle to have made it to 10pm tonight!!! Never fear, am about to crash out, struggling now with eyes wanting to close. [cuppa] and bed.