Why are so many men so selfish and entitled in bed?

[Frizzbonce]

I don't mean rape or assault or any kind of sex where abuse is involved.

What I mean is the kind of really rubbish sex where you lie there afterwards feeling twitchy and resentful I've been thinking back over all the bad sex I've had. Sadly a lot of it was because I didn't think I was entitled to expect good sex and even when I did start understanding what I wanted and tried to gently encourage, I still encountered men who would

Go straight from a brief tongue jab to nipple twiddle followed by a quick check down there to see if I was 'ready'.
Twiddle my nips in bored fashion as though trying to locate Latvian Radio
Fiddle with my ladyparts in manner of Doing Me a Favour or trying to remove a stain from blazer

The absolute worst sex ever was when I was briefly dating a doctor. I should have guessed at his manners when he wandered out of the restaurant and peed up against the side of the wall while howling like a wolf. I was only twenty - that's my excuse. He also possessed an extensive collection of 'video nasties' and in his bedroom was a very well thumbed copy of the Marquis de Sade's Forth Days of Sodom. There was no foreplay and he kept his socks on. It really hurt me because I wasn't ready at all and I asked him to stop. He said: 'Are you a virgin - is that why you're so dry?' Something snapped and I got out of bed got dressed and went home.

Now I've been with DP for several years and I could tell he was going to be fabulous from the moment we kissed and he was and he still is. It's because my pleasure is his pleasure too. It's really not that difficult. Like women and take some time to turn them on. Why, with all the information out there are some men still so entitled and selfish in bed?

[Darkesteyes]

capital he sounds lovely. Has he got any brothers.

[goodnightlove]

You raise an interesting point capital. re: watching my DH masturbate, i've asked him to show me, but he wont I'd find it very erotic and informative, but hey ho. As you say, that's entirely his choice to make.

I've talked to my DH and other partners about the differences between how i touch them and how they touch themselves. I've learned allot, some of the things my DH has shared has been common to a few other partners i've had, some are more unique to him, as you would expect.

One thing is the fact that my touch is a little on the gentle side, and i need to be a bit firmer (i do have a very light touch) and so i make a conscious effort to be a bit rougher than comes naturally to me. Rougher than i would be with myself.

DH once told me about some banter he had at work with a group of guys where they were discussing their sex lives and it was generally agreed upon that the way their partners touched them was good on the whole, but felt a bit like 'having a wank with your left hand'! which made me smile.

capital also you reminded me about how my XH (to whom i got married very young) used to always leap up straight after sex and hurry to the bathroom to wash/wipe himself :(

My DH may be a bit clumsy with me, struggles with finishing a bit quickly, and can be a little set in his ways - but he is passionate, loving, loyal and kind, will happily lay in the wet patch all night without feeling the need to clean off, and never shows any displeasure at getting all wet and juicy with me

[EmmaThorn]

I think the culture and history of women in the home and workplace has a lot to do with this. Women for many generations have been subservient to men and its developed an subconscious mind-set for both men and women where the man is expected to be the leader, primary earner, hunter-gatherer etc. Women need to be taught and believe to stand up for themselves - not just in bed, but in life in general. Most of the relationships I had before getting married were driven by the guy taking the first step - but that just empowers men to think that this is what women want. Men and women are equal - if a woman isn't getting what she wants or enjoys or needs (whether in bed or elsewhere) she should feel empowere to do something about it.

[thecapitalsunited]

Darkesteyes, a twin brother!

I do think it matters how much a man is willing to talk about what he wants in bed. If he can't talk about or show you how he likes to be touched, how are you going to get that dialogue? I think it has to go both ways, we should feel able to talk to our partners about what we want and they should talk to us. I dare say if you are used to it then that avoids the 'school teacher' effect. Unless that's what you like

[Fallenangle]

Now capital, have you compared notes with his twin's DP if not, why not?, are they equally caring in bed?

[Darkesteyes]

Ooh a twin. Now thats an answer i was not expecting

[Estherbelle]

Capital, I was thinking how much your DP sounds like mine and then you say he has a twin brother - well my DP has a twin brother too - the mind boggles!

[thecapitalsunited]

I'm imaging MNers beating a path to DP's twin's door now! He is single

[Fallenangle]

I won't be joining the queue as i am happy with my own DP. Now, if they were identical twins, I would be very tempted to fall further.

[boomoohoo]

Have been reading this thread with interest. I have a loving and giving dp who gets off on my enjoyment. But all ex's (of which there were 2 significants) were totally entitled and selfish. Have been with dp a yr now and am only now trying to unlearn that my pleasure is as valid as his..

Have a q for you all, how complimentary are your dps in bed? It's the one thing I feel is lacking in my relationship. I don't think he's ever told me I'm sexy, or beautiful. I feel needy for needing to hear this. I spoke to him about it last night but he just said it's who he is.

[Pilgit]

it's a lot to do wit society attitude. Rape in marriage was only recognised by the law in the UK in 1991 (yes, 1991 - not a typo). Up until then marriage was considered to imply consent. This institutionalised a mans pleasure as being more important. Thankfully that is not the case any more but a lot of people need to catch up. It's also a lot to do with how people view their position in a relationship - if they are loving and given in bed they will be in life - selfish and entitled, they will be everywhere in their relationship. Or is that just my experience?

[Darkesteyes]

This institutionalised a mans pleasure as being more important


Pilgit you have an excellent point there.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Yes Pilgit that is a good point.

Actually thinking about this, that links in with the concept of "consent". A woman doesn't have to be actively participating in sex, for it to legally not be defined as rape. She just has to "consent".

And what does consent mean? To allow, permit, acquiesce, agree.

Not "actively participate" much less "enthusiastically participate".

The bar is extremely low for men to be permitted to enter a woman's body, without it being a criminal offence.

So in law, the idea that a woman doesn't actually need to be actively participating, let alone enthusiastically enjoying, is enshrined. It's institutional. And at some level, that idea must permeate some men's minds - it doesn't matter if she's not enjoying it or doesn't really want to do it, as long as she allows me to without actively telling me not to, I can wank into her. (Because for some men, that's what sex is really - not something which is a participatory activity which you do with someone, it's something you do to or on or in something or someone.)

[Fallenangle]

boo I don't think my DH tells me I am sexy or beautiful very often, although I am stunning but he does occassionaly say, unprompted, things like 'your bum looks great in those jeans' we have been together for seventeen years though. I tell him nice things too. Do you tell your DP he is gorgeous?

[Fallenangle]

Repost so I don't appear to be an arrogant cow. boo I don't think my DH tells me I am sexy or beautiful very often, although I am stunning but he does occassionaly say, unprompted, things like 'your bum looks great in those jeans' we have been together for seventeen years though. I tell him nice things too. Do you tell your DP he is gorgeous?

[Darkesteyes]

Fastidia if MN had a like button id be pressing it for that post. Absolutely agree.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

FB I do have a problem, similar to yours, with consent being some kind of (very low) baseline to sex, but I'm not sure what other legal definition would work.