Why are so many men so selfish and entitled in bed?

[Frizzbonce]

I don't mean rape or assault or any kind of sex where abuse is involved.

What I mean is the kind of really rubbish sex where you lie there afterwards feeling twitchy and resentful I've been thinking back over all the bad sex I've had. Sadly a lot of it was because I didn't think I was entitled to expect good sex and even when I did start understanding what I wanted and tried to gently encourage, I still encountered men who would

Go straight from a brief tongue jab to nipple twiddle followed by a quick check down there to see if I was 'ready'.
Twiddle my nips in bored fashion as though trying to locate Latvian Radio
Fiddle with my ladyparts in manner of Doing Me a Favour or trying to remove a stain from blazer

The absolute worst sex ever was when I was briefly dating a doctor. I should have guessed at his manners when he wandered out of the restaurant and peed up against the side of the wall while howling like a wolf. I was only twenty - that's my excuse. He also possessed an extensive collection of 'video nasties' and in his bedroom was a very well thumbed copy of the Marquis de Sade's Forth Days of Sodom. There was no foreplay and he kept his socks on. It really hurt me because I wasn't ready at all and I asked him to stop. He said: 'Are you a virgin - is that why you're so dry?' Something snapped and I got out of bed got dressed and went home.

Now I've been with DP for several years and I could tell he was going to be fabulous from the moment we kissed and he was and he still is. It's because my pleasure is his pleasure too. It's really not that difficult. Like women and take some time to turn them on. Why, with all the information out there are some men still so entitled and selfish in bed?

[TheUndesireable]

Of course it takes two, but if you have read the thread you will see the women here are making effort and communicating!

[ineedabodytransplant]

Wishihadabs,

I don't want to distract from the thread, but it wasn't good from the beginning. Athough I didn't know that at the time, we were young and I thought it was the norm to all be over in a few minutes. It was a few years before I discovered there should be more, but it was too late by then.

I wish I could turn back the clock and know then what I know now. Women, and men luckily, are more aware of sex and love-making now than ever before so hopefully things will be better.

[ineedabodytransplant]

The undesirable, (and Iam sure you're not)

I totally agree, but I can only see one side here where every poster seems to say it's the blokes fault. It may be but I am just giving my view

[Wishihadabs]

I think there are 2 different problems being discussed here;
Lack of sex vs The wrong kind of sex

I think the second is more fixable as both partners are interested in having a sex life. In the first if one partner is just not that bothered then that is much more difficult to sort out, especially if they have never been that interested.

[TheUndesireable]

You're right, I'm not but that's how I'm feeling :(

It is my opinion that The blokes in question here are at fault as they are clearly satisfied and getting what they want. Selfish and entitled people generally do get what they want.

Sorry to be snappy, probably down to lack of good sex!

[Wishihadabs]

Why too late ? It strikes me that you would like a fufilling sex life. Does dp not want that. Btw it doesn't have to go on for hours to be any good. DH and I love having a quickie

[mercury7]

some of it must surely be sexual incompatibility?
There must be couples where the man wants soulful lovemaking and the woman just wants a quick release?

[CityTiliDie]

Just chucking in male piont of view.......

Never been a big fan of Radio Latvia!! and my Blazer looks better with the dirty marks.

I get more pleasure in bed with DW when she has an orgasm. I prefer silver medal sex....... I always come second. though I would add that last time I said anything about making sure my DW comes and enjoys it as much as possible I was vilified for putting too much pressure onto my DW during sex

I always would ask a new GF what she liked in bed and would never expect anything in return, DW does not like giving oral but likes to recieve and I can put up with that as it makes her happy, I throughly like giving my tongue a good work out (there are so few machines in the Gym for that) so we both win.

Not being what one would class as 'well endowed' I have to make up for it in other ways (have learnt to breathe through my ears!) and can lick the end of my nose though thats probably more about the size of my nose than the length of my tongue.

Females deserve to be treated with respect, equality and passion when DTD and for me its more about them than me.

WRT Latvian radio that might be a problem of the past with the use of DAB radio where every channel is on preset so the 'men' of the future may just poke rather than twiddle and with vanish stain removing spray you might find your fanjo's full of weird foam in the future.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

"I'm so pleased there are others whose DPs aren't brilliant in bed and that they accept it."

I find that really depressing.

When I was young, we all assumed that by 2013, all women would be having good, fulfilling sex, not generally crap sex like they "used to" have.

The sexual revolution never really happened for most women, did it?

[Wishihadabs]

But then you comprise mercury surely. Anyway very few people always want the same type of sex. It's part of the joy of a new relationship finding out what the other partner likes....and often you find out things you enjoy that you may not have considered. For example DH is quite into restraint, I wasn't sure, we compromised, now I enjoy it and sometimes instigate it.

It's called growing together. (Easier if you meet in your early 20's so less set in your ways perhaps)

[Wishihadabs]

Citytilidie I think that's completely normal. I feel pretty s@#t if DH doesn't get there and he feels the same way. Love the expression silver medal sex.

[goodnightlove]

Ineeda But can you all say, truthfully, that you have all been ready, willing and able,?

I can Seriously i can.

I don't know if wrong kind of sex is more fixable than lack of sex. It all depends on the problem i suppose.

We kiss passionately often. So it's not like we lack intimacy. DHs kisses are amazing. Bless him he can snog for England. I'm veeery fussy about my kissers. The first time we kissed i thought O.M.G this man knows how to tango. He does lovely things like lifting my chin gently for a kiss, running his fingers through my hair. Stroke my cheek. He'll tell me he loves me every day. He's touchy feely. I made him wait 3 months before we DTD. We did literally spend hours and hours winding each other into a frenzy before that.

DH is well endowed, and has the wonderful gift of staying up for ages, even after coming (sorry if this is TMI) so maybe feels he just doesn't have to try so hard. Does that make any sense? It's not like he's cold in bed. Or doesn't try. He just rushes things. Like a young lad. Too eager. Can't describe it any other way. He's not hearing me!

We have never had a situation where DH hasn't finished. The only time i do is if we've had loads of sex and it's sort of slowed him down. Then i can please myself on top for as long as it takes, or he takes long enough for me to get there

To add to the mess i have a horrible feeling that if i had too much attention turned on to me and weather i've had an orgasm or not i'd find it too much pressure now Which is maybe why i haven't made a massive issue of it between us. I'm rambling now!

[Wishihadabs]

Gnl sorry to be graphic but how often do you dtd ? DH and I always have a laugh about 1st of the month sex (as you describe over a bit quick). But that's cos we haven't done it for a bit. The longer, slower sessions tend to be when it's only been a few days.

[Wishihadabs]

He sounds great in other ways

[FastLoris]

I don't know if you can really say men are more selfish and entitled in bed than women. Everyone has sex seeking satisfaction, it's just that it seems generally easier and quicker for that to happen for men than for women.

In terms of relatively casual encounters and uncommitted sex, you need to remember that a lot of that long drawn our foreplay is really boring for most men. That doesn't mean they're bad people - it's just that it's not what floats their boat. And if as I say the sex is without much personal commitment, they won't necessarily be prepared to do something that bores them for that much time, for the sake of a lightweight relationship.

It's different when there's love involved. We all do things we're not particularly into for our partners, that's part of what makes a relationship work. And satisfying someone else is a lot more satisfying in and of itself, when you love the person.

Even there however there are limits and trade-offs. Imagine your partner asked you to watch a really boring art film with him on telly because that is what he is into. You'd probably say yes and go along for the ride, just to see if there's something in it you can both relate to - and through that relate to each other. Now imagine that he asked you to do that every night - 3 hours of black and white slow moving nothingness with subtitles. Or imagine that that was the minimum investment expected to ever watch telly. Every time the telly got switched on, it was on the assumption that that's what you'd be watching - you could never just enjoy a quick cartoon for a few minutes and be done with it.

Eventually, you'd want to find something else to do with your time. It wouldn't mean you don't love your partner.

[Startail]

Only sleep with a man who respects you and who is happy to let you tell him what feels good.

I've only ever slept with DH and I don't think it's simply luck it works. I think it's both being confident scientists. We talk an try things and laugh when we get in a muddle.

[SolidGoldBrass]

I do think that one of the main causes of this particular problem ie men who are otherwise 'wonderful' but just not giving you what you want in bed, is that women are constantly being encouraged to value 'love' over 'sex' - because women who enjoy sex and want good sex are a massive threat to the current social order. If women have autonomy and can choose whether or not to have sex, whether or not to breed, etc, then how on earth are men going to persuade them to be domestic servants and breeding stock and accept being owned?

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Crikey Erik - you moved your hips and he didn't like it?

Crikey.

Crikey.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Good point, SGB. It's where the whole consent thing is rooted, isn't it?

I don't need to consent to studying Spanish, or eating a brownie, or dancing - if I'm doing those things with a big smile on my face, or with quiet sighs of pleasure, consent is pretty redundant as a concept.

If you assume, however, that I don't really like brownies but will sometimes take one so as not to offend its creator, then suddenly consent starts to make sense as a concept.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

The art film thing - no, I don't buy that.

Firstly lots of women who are talking about their men being crap in bed are referring to long term relationships where love is involved.

Secondly men who find non-PIV sex quite boring are in fact, crap in bed - that's what we're talking about, that's almost the definition of crap in bed.

Thirdly if what was really important to you in a relationship was art films, you wouldn't want to have a relationship with someone who only wanted cartoons and really didn't share your passion for art films. Or you would accept that that's a part of your life your partner didn't share and do that particular thing with a friend who did share your passion for it. But in most hetero-normative monogamous relationships, that's not really an option, is it?

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Sorry it's an option for sharing art-films, or opera or whatever - but not for sharing sex.

Most men if told by their partners "listen darling, I know you don't like the non-PIV bit of sex because it's boring, so I've found this friend of mine who absolutely loves it and I'm going to do sex with him from now on so as not to bother you with all the stuff you find quite dull" would not respond positively to that suggestion.

Whereas they wouldn't mind if their partner found a friend with whom to share their art-film passion.

[Wishihadabs]

PMSL at art film analogy.

[TheUndesireable]

[Spoonful]

That is dreadful to read FastLoris, that you believe men usually find non-PIV sex boring but are willing to go through it if they love their partner, like a chore!
If I thought my partner felt that way, why would I ever want to have sex with them?

[goodnightlove]

wishi - we DTD twice a weekish, sometimes 3. I agree with you about the quickies after a big gap We share that joke too. And he is lovely, yes, which makes this so frustrating.

On the art-film comparison - i agree that if the only time the telly got turned on was to watch long meaningful films i wouldn't cope well at all. I love a 5 minute catroon as much as anybody. However, if i knew that watching the occasional long film with my partner was going to bring us closer and bring him allot of joy then i'd make a point of learning to love doing it! Surely this is what part of 'give and take' means in a relationship.

I would be happy with a 'proper long session' once every couple of weeks (when we have an empty house ) I really am not looking for hour long sessions of meaningful moves every night. I'll accept a quickie. I like a quickie. I wont turn down a sleepy quickie a 3 o'clock am because he's woken up horny, i actually find that very sexy.

I don't expect to always orgasm when we have sex. This is because i do take longer than him and there isn't always that intenstity. But that's ok, i still enjoy the act very much.

One other problem which i would like to ask about while we're here, which is sort of related to this thread's topic, is this: i find that if we get into the sort of position/rhythm that will make me orgasm after, say, a minute or two, he finds it so stimulating that he can't hold back for more than a few strokes, so we have to stop, and i have to keep still for a minute. Which we laugh about - but it puts me back to square one a bit and we go round in circles..... Does anyone else have this?