Why are so many men so selfish and entitled in bed?

[Frizzbonce]

I don't mean rape or assault or any kind of sex where abuse is involved.

What I mean is the kind of really rubbish sex where you lie there afterwards feeling twitchy and resentful I've been thinking back over all the bad sex I've had. Sadly a lot of it was because I didn't think I was entitled to expect good sex and even when I did start understanding what I wanted and tried to gently encourage, I still encountered men who would

Go straight from a brief tongue jab to nipple twiddle followed by a quick check down there to see if I was 'ready'.
Twiddle my nips in bored fashion as though trying to locate Latvian Radio
Fiddle with my ladyparts in manner of Doing Me a Favour or trying to remove a stain from blazer

The absolute worst sex ever was when I was briefly dating a doctor. I should have guessed at his manners when he wandered out of the restaurant and peed up against the side of the wall while howling like a wolf. I was only twenty - that's my excuse. He also possessed an extensive collection of 'video nasties' and in his bedroom was a very well thumbed copy of the Marquis de Sade's Forth Days of Sodom. There was no foreplay and he kept his socks on. It really hurt me because I wasn't ready at all and I asked him to stop. He said: 'Are you a virgin - is that why you're so dry?' Something snapped and I got out of bed got dressed and went home.

Now I've been with DP for several years and I could tell he was going to be fabulous from the moment we kissed and he was and he still is. It's because my pleasure is his pleasure too. It's really not that difficult. Like women and take some time to turn them on. Why, with all the information out there are some men still so entitled and selfish in bed?

[Wishihadabs]

Wow at getting up to anything with a 9 week old never mind once a week !

[TheUndesireable]

No definitely not once a week at the mo, I meant in general :)

[goodnightlove]

mirai - DH (and past partners) take their weight 90% of the time. I don't mind a bit of squashing now and then!

badinage - if choosing a partner were as simple as dotting the i's and crossing the t's at the outset then there'd hardly be a reason for the relationships board You raise a valid point though.

To be brutally honest, which is what this thread is all about after all, i found my previous sexual partners (and indeed my previous husband) only ok to middling in the looks dept., compared to myself. In bed with them i felt relaxed and confident. If they were crap in bed i'd not bother again. With my DH, however, i have always been a little in awe of him in the looks dept. The first couple of years (and i cringe to write this) it was just bloody marvelous having sex with him, because i do find him amazingly sexy. I could watch him reading out the telephone directory and get horny. As the years time has gone on i've realised i need a bit more than just to be with him having sex. It's as simple as that really. I was naive i suppose. I wouldn't go back and un marry him though.

Fallenangle - i may be wrong, but i don't get a strong feeling that posters here are mainly only doing vanilla, missionary sex. Am i wrong? Personally i find my DH comes faster with me on top. Unless we really have been at it like rabbits recently - on holiday for eg. It's his favorite position and he finds it particularly stimulating.

I have orgasmed on the bottom, standing up and on all fours, but it is rare and more down to luck than judgement. We have only orgasmed together with me on top, i think.

[Toadinthehole]

thedoctrineofsnatch,

The OP's complaint relates to things not being done to her / not being done to her properly.

It fits right in to the old-fashioned notion that sex is something men do to women (the implication being that men are responsible for making all the running).

A man faced with such a situation is basically obliged to commit at least some of the sins described on this thread if he (hardly unreasonably) wants to orgasm.

Surely if you want good sex you need to be involved - and I don't mean simply to the extent of telling your partner what to do / where to touch ect.

[Toadinthehole]

Oh, and what fallenangle said at 12:06:32.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

The OP is very happy with her DH and mentioned a man who hurt her when penetrating her because she wasn't wet, then asked her if she was a virgin because she was dry.

And you get sense of entitlement on HER part from that?

Okey-doke.

[badinage]

Quite, Doctrine.....

I see what you mean Goodnight Love, but I guess for me, I couldn't ever have imagined falling that hard for a bloke who wasn't great in the sack. It just depends what are your most crucial boxes to tick, doesn't it? I wrote a post recently about this I think. For me, the most important boxes were shared values, kindness, sense of humour, someone who really 'got me' and who was a good communicator - and who was compatible sexually. But things like money and earning power didn't bother me a jot, because I knew I'd earn my own and would be financially independent what ever happened. I know for me personally, a relationship where the sex wasn't good would have been a disaster waiting to happen, so it was something I'd never have compromised on.

[cronullansw]

Currently on the front page there is a thread about female sex and orgasms.

Some random statements made therein include;

I don't bother with foreplay, it' all about penetration for me.......

I need foreplay for ages, maybe an hour or so......

I never come through penetration......

I come multiple times through penetration......

I have giving oral......

I love giving oral..........

Making any senses here? Everyone is different, talk, communicate. Men can't be expected to be any good if everyone is so different.

Charliefox has it right; if you are good and enjoying it, then this enthusiasm rubs off, fnarr fnrr, so to speak.

Seriously, some here have been unhappy with all of their partners, some have been happy with all of their partners, there is a common denominator there.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

I have a sneaking suspicion that some people think a woman who expects good sex and is pissed off about not getting it, is a bit of an uppity bitch altogether, Doctrine, never mind a little bit entitled...

[abbyfromoz]

Hehe only read a few from this post but some of the descriptions are hilarious... In a dark sort of way. Must say i have had my fair share of bad sex. Dh is guilty. I would much rather give him a bj than have intimacy... How sad is that? No matter how many times i ask puhleeeease dont tweak my nips- it does NOTHING but make me seethe in fury and lose any ounce of mojo i mustered up- its like they have a mind of their own those hands! It just feels like he's achieving his ultimate goal of having an orgasm- and any connection with the human making that achievable aka me - is gone...

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Abby, that makes me for you. Have you always felt it was a bit impersonal with DH (have I interpreted you right)?

(on a practical note - keep your bra on during sex?)

[abbyfromoz]

Sorry i made it sound so dire. Although sometimes i really feel sad for me too He's a loving husband and really does try.... I remember trying to talk to him years ago but he deflected on me (i guess he felt it was an attack on his ego) we've since had therapy but the damage was pretty much done... Sex... Blah!
Good call on the bra but he always takes them off- says it will make him cum quicker... And i that means its over quicker i would rather oblige...
Reading this back it all sounds pretty horrible!! But that's life!!

[getmeoutofthismadhouse]

I met a guy last week and the thought of having sex with him again turns me cold. He had NO idea . I came home sore all over . He was so heavy handed and hadn't a clue. I actually would describe it similar to Flurp , doing press ups on me but he was pulling at my shoulder and doing a shaking movement at the same time . Then proceeds to keep asking me "do you like it baby, am I doing it for ya" over and over !! In my head I was thinking OMG what the hell ... I couldn't take more than a few minutes my shoulder was in agony !! I LOVE sex and was hoping to have a few good sessions last weekend , I did EVERYTHING I could to avoid it in the end !!
NOW I know why every ex he had cheated!! I actually feel really embarrassed for him coz I imagine he's had women not be too nice to him about his lack of bedroom skills . Seriously he was 29 and it was like goin with a virgin !!

[getmeoutofthismadhouse]

I had this from a article recently, it refers to me totally . Its about how a woman orgasms:
 i also need to feel that i am totally in love with him and trust him, and believe that he's in love with me. the first orgasm is amazing but the second is mind blowing. i need two orgasms. i don't think i'm much different than most women. women know what they want and if they don't take charge and get it or discover it they will not be satisfied. for women, its very much a MENTAL thing. the woman has to feel comfortable, and for most women, this means a certain element of love and trust is present. her emotions will come into play too. can she channel her anger, rage into sex when mad at her partner? when happy with him? women have to be comfortable with their emotional state and find its relevance to sex with their partner. yes i know...very complicated. and you men are so simple. here are some simple (albeit difficult) tactics for making a woman happy in bed: 1. make her feel adored and loved 2. give her a lot of reasons to trust you in the course of a relationship 3. be patient 4. dont give her more than a drink or two of alcohol (or her mind will be too inebrieated to engage in the sex mentality) 5. tell her she can have her way with you. let her know you aim to please and the sex is all about her (because if she enjoys it, you will too!)if you do these 5 things, i almost gurantee you'll have a happy, sex addicted woman.

[cronullansw]

Abbyfromoz; I would much rather give him a bj than have intimacy...

Have intimacy? Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude here, but wow. :(

[abbyfromoz]

Totally agree with madhouse! Add 'never compare partner to past sexual experiences or porn' to that list!!
Cronullan- i don't think you're being rude. I agree it's sad. I'm not saying i don't crave intimacy! Just not his particular brand of it
And it's a horrible situation to be in when you love someone.

[Frizzbonce]

goodnight and Snatch - thank you! As you put so well I wasn't being entitled, and I don't honestly think I expected the man to guess through telepathy but when you DO explain and show enthusiasm and he still looks at you as though you're a wind up toy that doesn't work properly, you get frustrated.

Somebody asked why we stay with men who don't fulfil us sexually and I think it's a really valid question. In my case, everything else worked well - we got on well and were friends. (He became very controlling after a while but that's another story) I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't think that not enjoying sex much was a good enough reason to end the relationship. Also I'd been brought up to ignore my feelings so the little voice inside me saying: This isn't working was easily squashed in day to day life. I would tell myself that sex wasn't that important. My ex would then insist on giving me erotic massages. It sounds great but I hate massage but he would insist and I would lie there on my front, as relaxed as a piece of sheet metal while he rubbed and poked and prodded. Then he would rub away at my fanjo. It might have worked but he kept glancing up at me expectantly (I felt as though I was expected to hold up a Score Card) - 'are we there yet?' It didn't help either that he would tell me how lucky I was that he still fancied me.

Anyway when we finally split and a while later I met my DH it was like - a new world. My DH said he got his pleasure from mine and I was thinking - yeah yeah but when I told him that I needed a light touch - he paid attention and concentrated and I started to feel that he really did want to turn me on. It wasn't a means to an end which is what I'd always felt before. Up to that point (sorry for tmi) I had needed a load of lube and thought - well it's because I'm older. Nothing to do with it. I just wasn't turned on.

[CartedOff]

I had the same thing with friendship and getting on so well feeling like it was enough. And this was for multiple partners. I thought that I was incapable of having amazing sex and that the issue was me. It was a complete and utter shock when I started having casual sex with someone I had only met a few times and he was more generous and skilled than any of my long-term relationships. I felt briefly angry about it all, but more at myself than anything else. I should have dumped the bad sex-havers. I couldn't get over how different it could be with someone who gave a damn about my satisfaction. I found a lot of the things I thought I didn't enjoy were actually amazing when done by someone with a bit of subtlety and patience. Who knew, eh?

[Hairylurker]

It's not just a male thing. I've had sex with a few women who were absolutely crap in bed, expecting it to be done to them rather than a participatory activity, and they had no idea about how the male body worked. Men like foreplay too, if its done right. And this business about men going to sleep afterwards - you may have noticed that the male and female orgasm are quite different. Yes men can generally come every time, women need more complex stimulation and circumstance, but, and again in general, the male orgasm is nothing like as powerful or renewable as the female. Can you feel the envy!? What men do get is an endorphin rush post-orgasm, often a delicious but delicate experience, best enjoyed in stillness and silence. Perhaps that's what all these ungrateful men are doing when they appear to roll over and go to sleep? It would be worth asking. But I do completely fail to understand the men largely described above. After Masters and Johnson, Human Sexual Response, published in 1966, there is no excuse not to know better.

[TheUndesireable]

Interesting Hairy I don't really mind the whole falling asleep after as I'm usually tired anyway.

What annoys me about my P is he knows I needs clitoral stimulation to come, yet he's stingy with oral, his hands and I can tell he's uncomfortable when I've used a bullet to help myself along not sure what the fuck he wants really. Maybe a blow up doll?

Gah.

[Hopingtobehappy]

I havent read all the posts yet, so apologies if this has already been said.

I dont think that in a long term relationship 'bad sex' can necessarily be put down to the man. If you are not happy, then take over and make things better!

I have always initiated what I want from sex. No man would ever get to 'twiddle my nipples and check whether I was ready' because he would probably be handcuffed to the bed and blindfolded whilst I played with him, teased him and told him what to do to me!

I watch and read porn and I get lots of new ideas from it!

I loe sex and I hope that never changes, I would not be able to have a relationship with a man who didnt feel the same.

[Hopingtobehappy]

'It's not just a male thing. I've had sex with a few women who were absolutely crap in bed, expecting it to be done to them rather than a participatory activity, and they had no idea about how the male body worked'

Thats how I have read a few of the posts on here and its quite sad really.

Knowing how the male body works and what to do to make a man beg you not to stop is such a powerful thing it turns me on almost more than sex itself !

Foreplay doesnt just include touching each other either, texts, emails, phone calls, leaving notes, prolonging touching each other... sex is such an amazing thing, its such a shame not everybody enjoys it!

(im really horny now!)

[ButternutSquish]

My DP finishes way too quickly, think seconds, but that's ok. He gets so excited seeing me aroused that he almost can't help himself. Every time, and I mean every time after coming he will stimulate me to orgasm, without complaint or without me asking. Sometimes I say no, because I know it takes a while and I'm not feeling it. He was taught to do this by an ex g/f and I am eternally thankful to her. He says my pleasure is his pleasure, and I believe him

[Deepbreathsandbreathe]

So, can we turn this extremely interesting, funny and informative thread around... Men will more than likely have an orgasm during sex, whatever the build up. Women need a longer time to become aroused. Obviously both need to know how the other's anatomy works, and it seems that many don't. I have never watched a partner masturbate. I have asked am curious that I do it properly for him? Do men care once they're in the mood, or is any fiddling erotic? Do I get the bits that feel good for him? From a personal perspective, men do not want to be told they have absolutely no bleeding idea where it feels best for a woman, and take it as a personal thing that, as a natural born stud, they do not need to be told otherwise. However, putting the shoe back on the other foot, a wallop of KY on and everything feels fantastically dirty for both sexes, but without that I'm not entirely sure I arouse him in the way he would do if he was masturbating, which I would find instructive to watch as surely it's how we all know how our own bodies respond... And, no, I've never had a partner that would let me watch, and it's something I've respected. I appreciate it's a very private thing, but perhaps instructive?

[thecapitalsunited]

I had a long term relationship with someone who used to wipe me off because I got too wet :( Everything was just about him and how he wanted things. I was young and naive and put up with it.

I nearly cried the first time I slept with DP and everything he did was about my pleasure. Especially since, as he was a bit drunk and tired, he couldn't stay hard. I'd never come across a man who was so unbothered about his own pleasure that he'd make sure his partner was satisfied even though he was obviously not going to orgasm. DP is the only man who has ever been able to make me orgasm through penetration and I think its because he makes me feel so relaxed and wanted.

DeepBreaths interesting my shit in the sack ex never let me watch him masturbating but DP is way more relaxed and will quite happily masturbate at the end of a particularly satisfying session if I'm too weak at the knees to be much help. Using me as a wanking aid just doesn't seem to enter his head.