Why are so many men so selfish and entitled in bed?

[Frizzbonce]

I don't mean rape or assault or any kind of sex where abuse is involved.

What I mean is the kind of really rubbish sex where you lie there afterwards feeling twitchy and resentful I've been thinking back over all the bad sex I've had. Sadly a lot of it was because I didn't think I was entitled to expect good sex and even when I did start understanding what I wanted and tried to gently encourage, I still encountered men who would

Go straight from a brief tongue jab to nipple twiddle followed by a quick check down there to see if I was 'ready'.
Twiddle my nips in bored fashion as though trying to locate Latvian Radio
Fiddle with my ladyparts in manner of Doing Me a Favour or trying to remove a stain from blazer

The absolute worst sex ever was when I was briefly dating a doctor. I should have guessed at his manners when he wandered out of the restaurant and peed up against the side of the wall while howling like a wolf. I was only twenty - that's my excuse. He also possessed an extensive collection of 'video nasties' and in his bedroom was a very well thumbed copy of the Marquis de Sade's Forth Days of Sodom. There was no foreplay and he kept his socks on. It really hurt me because I wasn't ready at all and I asked him to stop. He said: 'Are you a virgin - is that why you're so dry?' Something snapped and I got out of bed got dressed and went home.

Now I've been with DP for several years and I could tell he was going to be fabulous from the moment we kissed and he was and he still is. It's because my pleasure is his pleasure too. It's really not that difficult. Like women and take some time to turn them on. Why, with all the information out there are some men still so entitled and selfish in bed?

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

FB I do have a problem, similar to yours, with consent being some kind of (very low) baseline to sex, but I'm not sure what other legal definition would work.

[FastidiaBlueberry]

[Darkesteyes]

Fastidia if MN had a like button id be pressing it for that post. Absolutely agree.

[Fallenangle]

Repost so I don't appear to be an arrogant cow. boo I don't think my DH tells me I am sexy or beautiful very often, although I am stunning but he does occassionaly say, unprompted, things like 'your bum looks great in those jeans' we have been together for seventeen years though. I tell him nice things too. Do you tell your DP he is gorgeous?

[Fallenangle]

boo I don't think my DH tells me I am sexy or beautiful very often, although I am stunning but he does occassionaly say, unprompted, things like 'your bum looks great in those jeans' we have been together for seventeen years though. I tell him nice things too. Do you tell your DP he is gorgeous?

[FastidiaBlueberry]

Yes Pilgit that is a good point.

Actually thinking about this, that links in with the concept of "consent". A woman doesn't have to be actively participating in sex, for it to legally not be defined as rape. She just has to "consent".

And what does consent mean? To allow, permit, acquiesce, agree.

Not "actively participate" much less "enthusiastically participate".

The bar is extremely low for men to be permitted to enter a woman's body, without it being a criminal offence.

So in law, the idea that a woman doesn't actually need to be actively participating, let alone enthusiastically enjoying, is enshrined. It's institutional. And at some level, that idea must permeate some men's minds - it doesn't matter if she's not enjoying it or doesn't really want to do it, as long as she allows me to without actively telling me not to, I can wank into her. (Because for some men, that's what sex is really - not something which is a participatory activity which you do with someone, it's something you do to or on or in something or someone.)

[Darkesteyes]

This institutionalised a mans pleasure as being more important


Pilgit you have an excellent point there.

[Pilgit]

it's a lot to do wit society attitude. Rape in marriage was only recognised by the law in the UK in 1991 (yes, 1991 - not a typo). Up until then marriage was considered to imply consent. This institutionalised a mans pleasure as being more important. Thankfully that is not the case any more but a lot of people need to catch up. It's also a lot to do with how people view their position in a relationship - if they are loving and given in bed they will be in life - selfish and entitled, they will be everywhere in their relationship. Or is that just my experience?

[boomoohoo]

Have been reading this thread with interest. I have a loving and giving dp who gets off on my enjoyment. But all ex's (of which there were 2 significants) were totally entitled and selfish. Have been with dp a yr now and am only now trying to unlearn that my pleasure is as valid as his..

Have a q for you all, how complimentary are your dps in bed? It's the one thing I feel is lacking in my relationship. I don't think he's ever told me I'm sexy, or beautiful. I feel needy for needing to hear this. I spoke to him about it last night but he just said it's who he is.

[Fallenangle]

I won't be joining the queue as i am happy with my own DP. Now, if they were identical twins, I would be very tempted to fall further.

[thecapitalsunited]

I'm imaging MNers beating a path to DP's twin's door now! He is single

[Estherbelle]

Capital, I was thinking how much your DP sounds like mine and then you say he has a twin brother - well my DP has a twin brother too - the mind boggles!

[Darkesteyes]

Ooh a twin. Now thats an answer i was not expecting

[Fallenangle]

Now capital, have you compared notes with his twin's DP if not, why not?, are they equally caring in bed?

[thecapitalsunited]

Darkesteyes, a twin brother!

I do think it matters how much a man is willing to talk about what he wants in bed. If he can't talk about or show you how he likes to be touched, how are you going to get that dialogue? I think it has to go both ways, we should feel able to talk to our partners about what we want and they should talk to us. I dare say if you are used to it then that avoids the 'school teacher' effect. Unless that's what you like

[EmmaThorn]

I think the culture and history of women in the home and workplace has a lot to do with this. Women for many generations have been subservient to men and its developed an subconscious mind-set for both men and women where the man is expected to be the leader, primary earner, hunter-gatherer etc. Women need to be taught and believe to stand up for themselves - not just in bed, but in life in general. Most of the relationships I had before getting married were driven by the guy taking the first step - but that just empowers men to think that this is what women want. Men and women are equal - if a woman isn't getting what she wants or enjoys or needs (whether in bed or elsewhere) she should feel empowere to do something about it.

[goodnightlove]

You raise an interesting point capital. re: watching my DH masturbate, i've asked him to show me, but he wont I'd find it very erotic and informative, but hey ho. As you say, that's entirely his choice to make.

I've talked to my DH and other partners about the differences between how i touch them and how they touch themselves. I've learned allot, some of the things my DH has shared has been common to a few other partners i've had, some are more unique to him, as you would expect.

One thing is the fact that my touch is a little on the gentle side, and i need to be a bit firmer (i do have a very light touch) and so i make a conscious effort to be a bit rougher than comes naturally to me. Rougher than i would be with myself.

DH once told me about some banter he had at work with a group of guys where they were discussing their sex lives and it was generally agreed upon that the way their partners touched them was good on the whole, but felt a bit like 'having a wank with your left hand'! which made me smile.

capital also you reminded me about how my XH (to whom i got married very young) used to always leap up straight after sex and hurry to the bathroom to wash/wipe himself :(

My DH may be a bit clumsy with me, struggles with finishing a bit quickly, and can be a little set in his ways - but he is passionate, loving, loyal and kind, will happily lay in the wet patch all night without feeling the need to clean off, and never shows any displeasure at getting all wet and juicy with me

[Darkesteyes]

capital he sounds lovely. Has he got any brothers.

[thecapitalsunited]

I had a long term relationship with someone who used to wipe me off because I got too wet :( Everything was just about him and how he wanted things. I was young and naive and put up with it.

I nearly cried the first time I slept with DP and everything he did was about my pleasure. Especially since, as he was a bit drunk and tired, he couldn't stay hard. I'd never come across a man who was so unbothered about his own pleasure that he'd make sure his partner was satisfied even though he was obviously not going to orgasm. DP is the only man who has ever been able to make me orgasm through penetration and I think its because he makes me feel so relaxed and wanted.

DeepBreaths interesting my shit in the sack ex never let me watch him masturbating but DP is way more relaxed and will quite happily masturbate at the end of a particularly satisfying session if I'm too weak at the knees to be much help. Using me as a wanking aid just doesn't seem to enter his head.

[Deepbreathsandbreathe]

So, can we turn this extremely interesting, funny and informative thread around... Men will more than likely have an orgasm during sex, whatever the build up. Women need a longer time to become aroused. Obviously both need to know how the other's anatomy works, and it seems that many don't. I have never watched a partner masturbate. I have asked am curious that I do it properly for him? Do men care once they're in the mood, or is any fiddling erotic? Do I get the bits that feel good for him? From a personal perspective, men do not want to be told they have absolutely no bleeding idea where it feels best for a woman, and take it as a personal thing that, as a natural born stud, they do not need to be told otherwise. However, putting the shoe back on the other foot, a wallop of KY on and everything feels fantastically dirty for both sexes, but without that I'm not entirely sure I arouse him in the way he would do if he was masturbating, which I would find instructive to watch as surely it's how we all know how our own bodies respond... And, no, I've never had a partner that would let me watch, and it's something I've respected. I appreciate it's a very private thing, but perhaps instructive?

[ButternutSquish]

My DP finishes way too quickly, think seconds, but that's ok. He gets so excited seeing me aroused that he almost can't help himself. Every time, and I mean every time after coming he will stimulate me to orgasm, without complaint or without me asking. Sometimes I say no, because I know it takes a while and I'm not feeling it. He was taught to do this by an ex g/f and I am eternally thankful to her. He says my pleasure is his pleasure, and I believe him

[Hopingtobehappy]

'It's not just a male thing. I've had sex with a few women who were absolutely crap in bed, expecting it to be done to them rather than a participatory activity, and they had no idea about how the male body worked'

Thats how I have read a few of the posts on here and its quite sad really.

Knowing how the male body works and what to do to make a man beg you not to stop is such a powerful thing it turns me on almost more than sex itself !

Foreplay doesnt just include touching each other either, texts, emails, phone calls, leaving notes, prolonging touching each other... sex is such an amazing thing, its such a shame not everybody enjoys it!

(im really horny now!)

[Hopingtobehappy]

I havent read all the posts yet, so apologies if this has already been said.

I dont think that in a long term relationship 'bad sex' can necessarily be put down to the man. If you are not happy, then take over and make things better!

I have always initiated what I want from sex. No man would ever get to 'twiddle my nipples and check whether I was ready' because he would probably be handcuffed to the bed and blindfolded whilst I played with him, teased him and told him what to do to me!

I watch and read porn and I get lots of new ideas from it!

I loe sex and I hope that never changes, I would not be able to have a relationship with a man who didnt feel the same.

[TheUndesireable]

Interesting Hairy I don't really mind the whole falling asleep after as I'm usually tired anyway.

What annoys me about my P is he knows I needs clitoral stimulation to come, yet he's stingy with oral, his hands and I can tell he's uncomfortable when I've used a bullet to help myself along not sure what the fuck he wants really. Maybe a blow up doll?

Gah.

[Hairylurker]

It's not just a male thing. I've had sex with a few women who were absolutely crap in bed, expecting it to be done to them rather than a participatory activity, and they had no idea about how the male body worked. Men like foreplay too, if its done right. And this business about men going to sleep afterwards - you may have noticed that the male and female orgasm are quite different. Yes men can generally come every time, women need more complex stimulation and circumstance, but, and again in general, the male orgasm is nothing like as powerful or renewable as the female. Can you feel the envy!? What men do get is an endorphin rush post-orgasm, often a delicious but delicate experience, best enjoyed in stillness and silence. Perhaps that's what all these ungrateful men are doing when they appear to roll over and go to sleep? It would be worth asking. But I do completely fail to understand the men largely described above. After Masters and Johnson, Human Sexual Response, published in 1966, there is no excuse not to know better.