Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships :15

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

oh gawd Maggie so worried for you, I really hope you are all safe. Its all well and good everybody knowing, but yes, he might well blame you for all of this regardless of what you/they say. Isn't it time to go now, as everyone is knowing now? Even if he does realise its not you, he's still bound to take it out on you like you say. Love and strength to YOU! Wish we could keep you safe from him. Hope to hear soon. xx

it may be safer indoors, but its no way to live, now is it?

little steps, ever onwards, life will get better, it really will!

good going Fi, good work Maggie, excellent news Nora... keep on going please, all of you.

it'll be over soon enough!

Keep safe, maggie

I had the CBT for the fear - and as FW is back the fear is back so I'm back on the CBT. I didn't know how I would be in court but I froze. I am going to make a real effort to change that or I risk putting me and my DS in danger if I can't express what I need to. I was lucky to be interviewed via phone first and I explained my fear to them. I didn't have to say too much this time but I will soon. Before then I need to get the strength.
I'm out but he keeps managing to get in every aspect of my life with protection for himself, he knows the system, it's not working for me yet. But Hissy your words are strong and I will re read when I feel it's not moving forward quick enough. It will get better. Thank you all so much for everything ladies.
Keep safe Maggie I am sure this is a positive move.

I absolutely know its no life, hissy but its still one huge step up from a life of fear - one that I can't trust myself to not return to something similar and noone else understands, which i find the most upsetting part right now (except here ) and thanks again for your thoughts. We all go out, do lots of outdoor stuff - I don't do social. Whereas FW out partying drinking still hooked up with lovely new FW g/f match made in hell dreadful for the DC and moved on to his new life of hell, but not alone, where he should be. oh well.

Better did you get in touch with WA? - specifically as you are so fearful they completely get it and it made all the difference.

Well done Leclerc I'm sure you'll find that there are heaps of things you can do that FW said you couldn't

I went to the letting agency and did not sign the contract. Gah. I said I needed time to read it and could I take it home and drop it off on Monday? They said OK no probs. I don't really need 3 days to read it, it was a pretext not to sign straightaway because it's all moving so fast. And so exensive. My already measly house-buying-deposit fund won't even be enough to buy a garden shed once all this is done!

I need to get it all straight in my head that leaving is for the best. So:

1. I am unhappy with H because, among other things, he calls me bad names, will not go out with me, impossible to have any kind of conversation ("What do you think about the French intervention in Mali, H?" "How the fuck should I know? Fuck off instead of bothering me with your questions,"

2. He is not happy with me going out anywhere beyond work / supermarket / park with the DC. Cup of tea with next door neighbour is acceptable, but will result in mild sulking when I return. Going out for a run will result in mild to medium level sulking and grumbling about time wasting and the fact that I don't look after the house properly. Night out on the town will result in the worst insults, weeks of silent treatment and the fact that I "go out" will be brought up in future arguments.

3. The DC are frightened when H is being awful to me. They worry that they will be next.

4. H says that he is depressed, that he doesn't know why but implies it is my fault. Therefore, me leaving may help him feel better.

5. Sad as it is, I think I have to accept that I am not the kind of wife he wanted.

I had a blog all last year, I reread it this morning and its the same issues, coming back round and round. I must goooooooo........

Gosh long post. I keep doing long posts ATM. Good thing there is MN to offload or I may well end up as one of those people who sits next to random strangers on the bus and tells their life story, whether the other person wants to hear it or not

Nora Please, just go.
By going, you are not stopping him in any way from dealing with his shit. By staying, you are.
By going you are putting yourself and your children first. By staying, you are putting him above all your basic needs.
Rant over.

nora: deep breath, pick up pen, sign contract, go. You will survive, and then you will thrive.

Nora, sign it today. You haven't got a life, it's an existence. Give yourself and your dc a shot at happiness.

NORA Sweetheart....

Sad as it is, I think I have to accept that I am not the kind of wife he wanted.

Who the FUCK would want to be the wife he wants? I had the same conversations with my Ex. I asked him if he wanted someone who never left the house, waited on him hand and foot, had no life, no happiness, no expectations, no hope, future, nothing? Is THAT what he wanted me to be? a 'good Egyptian wife'? Someone who is only able to have conversations on the prices of fruit and veg in the market?

Well that's NOT what my foremothers and fathers chained themselves to railings for, that's not what my people do. I worked to build my life, i studied, i thought, i traveled. I said if that was what he wanted then it needed to end there and then.

He swore blind that he never wanted that, but he too would slam my conversations down if I tried to discuss anything I'd heard or read. He wouldn't let me go and meet other expats, he would do anything to stop that. There were times I stood up for myself, times i just cried and gave in.

Nora, you have to see that none of this is about you. He would change the rules on you no matter what kind of wife you are.

Please everyone, see that the blame is not ours, we did nothing wrong. We gave these clowns more of a chance at a normal life than most would. But they threw it back at us, they despise us for it, as they despise themselves.

FairyFi, you are going to be just fine, you have stepped on from where you were, and know that you are a work in progress. All you have to do is try to lose the fear of the future. you are stronger than you think you are. Keep talking, keep posting and keep pushing yourself (gently of course).

I know I'm being a bit pushy, but I know how great life gets when you do allow yourself to live a full and free life, when you refuse to be bullied by anyone.

I get judged, looked down on i'm sure, by the SchoolRunHuns, as they are terrified of catching 'Single' but I don't care. I pity them, cos they can't see what I see, they are not looking at life from where I am seeing it., they can't see the beauty, cos they don't know how good they have it. They just see me as a threat. They moan about their often inferior Hs, they live the drudge and they attach stigma to me.

Well walk a mile in my shoes before you criticise me....

I don't care what anyone thinks of me, only my son. He's all that matters. And me naturally!

Point taken, everyone. Contract signed, letting agency fee money withdrawn from bank. In fact as soon as I got home having not signed the contract, I regretted it. I am bad at decisions. Whenever there is a decision to be made, I weigh the for and against of every possible outcome in a kind of hellish decision tree that stretches from here till infinity. I have always been like this BTW, nothing to do with H.

Hissy H is not from Egypt, but from a country slightly to the west... we got married when I was 23 and thought that if you loved someone, you could get over any cultural differences you might have. Maybe some people manage it, but we didn't.

H too swears that he doesn't want the kind of wife who stays at home and only goes shopping, although his behaviour indicates the opposite. He thinks all my books are a waste of time and look messy. He doesn't read himself apart from the Quran, and goes nuts if I ever question this. Even though the Quran itself tells believers to go and seek knowledge as far as they can.

I studied while I was a SAHM and did a 3 year course while the DDs were preschoolers. It was a huge effort, staying up until 2 a.m often, and when I got the letter to say I passed, H just said, OK. That was all. I knew him well enough not to expect flowers or presents but just, OK. That was pretty shitty. He hates my job because I work mainly with blokes, although the money I earn is quite useful for paying things like the rent, and bills... At one point I was a part-time cleaner, and he didn't hate that job at all, although I did!

The problem at the root of it all is that he wants control, and he can't have it. He cannot control everything I do, and he doesn't like it.

Yay! So glad you signed it. How soon could you be in?

Yey, you, Nora Get thee to the agency first thing Monday morning.
Remember that the devil abusers will quote from the Bible/the Quran/the Torah / the Smriti and whatever ancient texts you ascribe to Buddhist principles to support their morally unacceptable views.

Nora, I'm really glad you have signed it. You wont regret getting out. It'll be really, really hard, but after a few days/weeks, your life will be transformed from what it is now - you wont 'exist', you'll live. Go for it.

Maggie - I hope you are ok...

I'm just on briefly to catch up. Been a funny week. Funeral was terribly, terribly sad. I sobbed the whole way through - his sister and brother sang an Irish song halfway through, and watching DS1's dad give the eulogy and have to be helped out by a couple of his dad's brothers... heartbreaking.
But then afterwards, at the wake - typically Irish, lots of food, booze, loads of singing and music. But to be there, with all the music and laughter, with people I used to be so, so close to... I found it overwhelming. I felt like I'd be transported back in time, back to what my life should have still been like, if DS1's dad hadn't fecked everything with his drinking. I must confess that I got a tad tiddly. [bblush] I didn't eat. I felt sick and shaky from crying so much, it was all I could do to sort out DS1 with some food. So I was drinking on an empty stomach. The rest of the eve is a bit of a blur, and I'm not really sure I want to remember, I'm cringing just thinking about it! I know I fell off my chair in front of DS1's dad's girlfriend. [bblush] And then we (me, DS1's dad and his sister (let's call her C), a couple of friends) went to another pub and there was dancing. Me and DS1's dad salsa-ing for all we were worth! And I think I spilled my guts a bit to his sister, who used to be my best friend, about FW and everything that has happened. DS1's dad told me he'd always love me because I was the father of his son, and we had a nice dancey/cuddly moment. And next day when I saw C's husband (who also used to be my housemate - it's all very incestuous), he said there was a lot of love going round for me, especially after I'd told them about FW and what I'd been through. So, I'm a little embarrassed at my general drunkenness, but I truly needed it I think. And I'm glad to have made a further connection with people I used to love dearly.
But I'm a little confused about myself, how I was with DS1's dad and how I am with men generally. I need to have a good think about myself, my self-esteem (or lack of it), my boundaries (or there complete non-existence).

I'm reading a really good book called 'Playful Parenting' at the moment that I hope is going to help me to help DS1, and hopefully his WA referral will come through soon. It's still all going on in his head.
And this morning, DS1 said to me out of the blue 'Do you think {FW} would come to my funeral if I were to die as a kid?'

Hello ladies, I thought it was going so well and was thinking that I had bought the Lundy book prematurely, he has been so nice for the past few days. Today though I don't know if I am being over sensitive or not, please tell me. H doesn't have much patience with DD playing and he had her on his own for 2 hours this morning so he did quite well but when I got back I could tell it was trying for him. Anyway H has some gym equipment upstairs under the sofa which DD can reach (drives me mad but he won't move it). Today while he was on the computer in the same room and I had turnd my back for a moment DD managed to drop it on her foot which obviously hurt a lot. I picked her up and cuddled her on the sofa but H just yells at me, picks up the equipment and shouts "move" then rams it back under the sofa. I can see he is angry so take DD to kitchen to get something cold on it, he storms down 2 mins later and throws some frozen peas at me and says "I can see we are going to A&E with this" then goes back to watchig his DVD. DD foot is now fine but H has just said in that awful tone of voice that you use with a petulant child, that he has put the equipment back under the sofa, I need to watch her more carefully and that all he wanted was 5 minutes to sort something out (his mums mobile). I know that the accident shouldn't have happened but really is this how men react? I don't know if I am a rubbish mum for letting it happen or what? This kind of thing happens most weekends although it doesn't usually involve an accident. What do you think?

Yes he is a FW. Apart from anything else, he needs to move the equipment, as it is clearly dangerous to DD. If it was me, I would move it myself and tell him where I was putting it, but I am not in your situation.

The rest of his actions show that he doesn't care about her, or you, only his own convenience.

Lahti.... No that's not how it should be. He was in the same room wasn't he? It was his equipment wasn't it? Why is he blaming you?!

Nora...well done on signing the contract! That must have taken a lot of guts but you've done it (And I know exactly what you mean about the decision making...but I bet it gets easier to make those choices once you're free from FWittery). When do you move in?

Pony...so sorry to hear about the funeral but glad that you are still cared for by your ExH's family. I have recently bought the Playful Parenting book and have found it a really interesting read. I'm hoping it will help me deal with the emotional effects that the divorce and FWittery is having on DS...

I'm in a bit of a zombi state at the moment. FW has yet to sign the agreements we made in mediation and I can't really relax until I know it's all actually happening.

I do know that he has paid his deposit on an apartment and will be definitely be moving out...but not until May I know I just have a few more months to stick it out...but blimey it's going to be a hard slog. He's still continuing with the low level FWittery...trying to get more money out of me...using DS to try and emotionally blackmail me....

What really annoys me is he's telling everyone how poor he is and trying to get sympathy.... It's infuriating. I want to stick a big advert up somewhere so everyone knows what a load of crap his sob story is....that he's going to walk away with almost £30k cash and a loan payed off.

And tomorrow I'm going to tell DS that mummy and daddy are splitting up and that daddy will be moving out. All the advice says that parents should tell children together...to show that its a joint decision...but FW has refused...he says he'll find it 'too upsetting'

wish me luck....

Welcome back Pony - sounds like a rip roaring time and you let your hair down, in good company - long overdue (and of course shared sadnesses amongst understanding friends ) Relax, they enjoyed you, you were amongst friends.

nora fingers crossed, yyy keep going, we all behind you!

Hissy thanks again. I keep thinking its changing, then is it changing? oh I feel the same but I guess all the while I still have moments of thinking it is changing, then it actually is! IYKWIM?! yy defo WIP!

The "general advice on divorce" really has nothing to do with our reality...you know he can't parent like that, you know the children need clarity, love and space for their own emotions and if FW is involved it will ALL be about HIM.

I have given up on the "how to do an amicable divorce" information. It isn't applicable to me.

I have told the children age-appropriate truth on my own at each and every stage with room for questions and for their assessment. The only thing I have tried repeatedly to say is that they love Daddy and he loves them (because even though he is a rubbish parent and never, ever puts them first, in his own limited way he does love them) and that they are allowed to be sad/angry/glad/whatever and they are allowed to tell me without worrying about my feelings (this because their father won't be able to do this). Yesterday I told them that I was divorcing their father...that he had done lots of courses but that I couldn't see how we could be happy as a family and that we are looking into how to help him and the children to have a good relationship....

this was the response "Mummy, really, did you ever think he would be able to be different?" (answer no but it was worth a try...not that I told them this)
"mummy do you remember when I was in hospital ill and people kept asking if everything was ok at school...it was home I was scared of going beck to . (Yes DS1 I have finally worked that out...shame you didn't say so at the time!). "Mummy id you and Daddy arrange or me to see him can I not go ?" from DD2

so it is done, the thing I was dreading and apparently they all knew anyway

no doubt it will be back to bite me later.

BTW if you think it's all sunny last DC had 2 hour cry after!! but she is prone to dramatics.......and at the end had forgotten why she was crying.

Fool...thanks for sharing your experiences of 'telling the children'!

To be honest, I reckon DS will not be too surprised. He frequently tells me 'you've got a sad face mummy...is it because of daddy?'

fool - your kids sound great. What a reassuring response from them - even the crying, grieving is good as long as she's honest with you as well. You're an inspiration. [bsmile]

Bertie - if he's anything like my DS, he'll have some off-the-wall questions for you to completely throw you. Expect the unexpected! And I'm glad your FW isn't doing it with you. He doesn't deserve to, because as you say, his interest in this is for himself, not the well-being of your lovely DS. Just a few months till May and you can reclaim the house... [bgrin] But I know it wont be an easy few months.