Support thread for those in Emotionally abusive relationships :15

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Just to say that in my case ADs brought clarity, not fog. Although I know some can be a bit tricky until they kick in.

oh! ?

ADs don't bring fog. FWs do, though, invariably.

Fairy I have just been sat thinking what can I do that will distract for a while, even if it is just for an hour (way to big a target for me that). Been trying to think of something that will lift my mood and make me smile. I would take the offers of meets up.

I am trying to break the cycle as the more down I get the more fog there is the more exhausted I become.

But each time I manage to break the cycle at the moment something will happen regarding FW and it distracts me from those positive things and so it all begins again. After months of it, I'm struggling.

Experts say the more you can break it the stronger you are but I am not sure. I don't have any other option but to keep trying. It's Friday what can we do for a `treat' even if it lasts half an hour.. ten mins? I do like to meditate for a few mins if nothing more to give that brain of mine a little rest, going to try and do that tonight - not too big a target just 3 mins.

Why do MIND say better to do without if you can? I took that to be that they might interfere with the process. I had taken them years ago, but they just seemed to 'slow' me, as in not see clearly, and feel kinda woolly.

To Ohhmmmm is good better I think being alone when feeling like that is not always so good, but definitely need to be alone with it sometimes. I get out and exercise (drives away so much of the feeling stuck in it). I rest, get many hours of sleep as possible, always renergises, just cannot cope when tired and the fog, like you say, is so tiring. Friday for me is a succession of DC activities, home late and rushed food, bed. wooosh. Sat the same recently.

FW's will never 'hear' it seems and thats exhausting! my groan for today! Are they thick (that use to be my excuse for all the things that went unheard), then it dawned 'its because it annoys me/or just doesn't care enough to take any notice'. FW. So I have to stop it annoying me.

I hope your ohmmm does helps, good music gets me away from it, and a good film.... but sometimes, yep, its just too exhausting.

Fairy do MIND say that?
I took ADs until I kicked FW out for about five months (not sure about taking them for longer) did not feel woolly, and felt in no need of them once I had got FW out the door thanks to this thread.

MIND was mentioned in relation to counselling, but twas better that said that mental support advised against AD if could manage without (paraphrased) which made sense to me. Altho my experience of AD's was so many years ago, drug therapies are very different now (mine was in the days before prozac).

Yes I was on a few before SSRIs were developed, and they just numbed me, so I discontinued them, preferring to feel miserable than to feel nothing.

But on paraxatine, I feel like me again.

As a former depressed person, and currently going out with one, let me tell you this.

Depressed people DON'T abuse others. They will do ANYTHING not to dish hurt out as the feeling of vulnerability is too great.

An abuser may be depressed, but that isn't the reason they abuse us. The fact that they are abusers is the reason they abuse us.

MANY, many, many abusers cite depression as an excuse, they blame it on us, the kids/work, on ANYTHING except themselves. basically it is them giving themselves carte blanche to hurt, maim and destroy others, but the minute it's challenged they hurl up their hands and the depressed card and refuse to allow any notion that they are out of order.

Nora, a depressed person is hard to live with, STRIKE ONE.
an abuser is hard to live with - STRIKE TWO

An abuser, with a real/imagined depression that refuses to own it, treat it or stop being a wanker to all those that are around them? STRIKE THREE.

You need to leave him because he is abusive. you can't do anything about it.

In fact, IF he's depressed, you can't do anything about that either. All you can say to him is that he needs time and space to sort himself out and that when he's better you may rethink things. Bottom line, for the sake of his health, his DC, he needs to leave.

A decent person would see this. I bet he won't, cos he's not really depressed.

I saw a proper costly shrink guy (via work god bless their help) about 5 or 6 years ago and he said try the tabs and CBT. The drugs just sent me loop the loop but he reconed only 2% of people had that reaction so I may have been unlucky. When I got to the CBT guy (as I had quite a wait) he was glad I had come off and said his process would work much better without them. So I guess as with everything it depends on the person, the problem/s, the severity (I was very bad by time I sought help) and maybe the combination of treatments recommended for you. See if your GP with have a god chat about them.

thing is.

Depression is when we IRRATIONALLY feel that life is shit, that we have no hope and are not being all we can be.

When life really IS shit, when we have all hope sucked out of it, dread each day, and live in permanent fear of getting shit wrong... that's not depression. That's a shit life that we need to find the strength to do something about.

taking AD's won't make our situation any better, sure it'll take the edge off the total doom and despair, but that will only make us tolerate the intolerable for a little bit longer, make us enable more harm of us.

When I was sat in a flat, a million miles away from anyone that gave a shit, with family leaving me to rot, with a man that kicked me, staying indoors to avoid the tossers in the streets that would holler, follow, photograph, gawp at, or try to touch, or the women that would hurl insults at me, or try to tell my Ex that i'd done/said things I hadn't so he'd kick off, just cos I was foreign...

Did I fall into depression? isolated, everyone against me, no way out, literally, indoors for literally weeks at a time, no sunlight, no happiness, no joy?

I thought I would, but no. Amazingly I didn't. I was stunned and needed to think why that was.

When life really IS shit, we have every right to be sad, we NEED to be sad, we NEED to do something about it, whenever we can.

I defy anyone to be more trapped than I was. I bided my time and got out when I could. Took me over a year from that point IIRC.

Keep that in your heads dear MNers, that you CAN turn a handle and go outside, you can pick up a phone and have a chat with someone, you CANpost on here, and someone WILLgive a shit about you.

PLease do what you can for yourselves, please never, ever give up.

Even Maggie, stuck indoors with her FW, is planning in her head.

PLAN! they can't stop us thinking!

I need to say too that I have nothing against the use of ADs, they can help those that need to just keep going when theirbrain is against them.

With us though, it's not our brain that is against us, it's our supposed partners.

There is no magic pill that can stop that...well perhaps Cyanide, for them to take..

We need to do whatever it takes to get our heads into a space where we can put a plan toremove ourselves and our children from these evil people.

When we are out, there will most likely not be a reason for ADs.

Anxiety meds perhaps, but I found Rescue Remedy to be vital to helping me conquer going outside again. My GP said to try it,but to come back if I needed more help. I didn't.

I still get nervous sometimes so have a bit of a spritz, and it really helps.

CBT is good too, but for dealing with panic situations. not for putting up with abuse.

PLease, all of you that are still inside, please stay strong, please keep posting, asking questions, checking and verifying until you see what we all see that you have nothing to be blamed for, and that you are so very brave, so kind and so capable, but that you must draw on everything you have to get out.

I can't stress enough how you will never, ever regret it.

carrying on regardless was what I was doing, although realising I wasn't coping (shaking to write texts, etc, just basically still living in fear although he'd gone, because of continued FWittery from beyond was still impacting badly). Now I'm not carrying on regardless, and moved out of 'survival' mode, to a more real life, and this stuff feels a lot as it comes up (but goes back further than just latest years of FW - as had a life primed for it by parents too). I wonder at what point AD's are then useful? does it speed up this process? I really don't want to start doing therapy, as thought I got to a place of understanding (when I found these threads), all of which make far more sense than any face2face stuff I've experienced before.

and I had meant to get some rescue remedy and forgotten, going back on the list for next shop! thanks for reminder

ADs just take the extremes off mostly.

Citalopram (sp) can help with anxiety, but the best medicine is extraction of the FW.

Therapy looks at why we ended up falling into these problems, what made us vulnerable. Who told us that this was all we were worth? It also helps us see that we are better than we are told we are.

You need a proper DV specialist therapist, IMHO.

The fear will lift, but you have to work REALLY hard to get it to shift. If Rescue Remedy works, great, if not, then you can ask for something to help with the anxiety.

Basically what we need to do is to understand the trauma we went through, that it wasn't our fault, that it's over and that we will be OK.

Until then we have to kind of Fake it till we Make it, get ourselves into the habit of functioning, reminding ourselves of what we are doing for ourselves and recognising the effort it's taking, telling ourselves that we are doing OK, and that we will keep doing OK.

He can't hurt us now.

We are allowed and indeed NEED to be sad, angry, furious, hurt, terrified, shocked and all the feelings we feel. We earned the right to them. Therapy helps us express them in a safe environment and then try to make sense of them before we let go.

You will get there love, you really will. I can see so much strength in you. It's so clear Fi. Now all you have to do is to believe it too!

It took us years to get into this, and years to realise what was going on, and years to get out.

It will take time to heal.

We have to allow that time, because we are worth taking the time to get better.

Trust me. when you have done the work you need to do, you will be stronger than you have ever been in your life.

You will feel superhuman at some point! Look back through the early versions of these threads. See how sad and low those of us that were on the beginning were, how afraid we were of everyone and everything.

It's OK to be scared, to be anxious, but nothing bad is going to happen to you, not when you have strengthened yourself. No-one will hurt you EVER again, cos you will REPEL all the FW by your sheer strength alone! they will see from afar that you are strong and no hope of trapping you and they will stay well away.

Even if they chance it, you will see them for what they are, swift kick to the goolies and they will be history...

I feel like I am getting to that point hissy. I am pleasant when I see FW purely for the sake of the dc and the fact that he sees them about 3x a week. But I can see the promises and declarations of love for the load of bull that they are and know now that nothing would ever change.
I am so sorted being single and although the dc are challenging in their own ways, I am handling it calmly because I don't have the underlying stress of living with him.
First counselling appointment is Monday. I don't know if she has much experience of EA at all, it is a community counselling service so will see.

Hissy I agree that I need to leave, I am going to sign my rental agreement tomorrow and can move into new house from 1st Feb It's just that you often see on MN that depression is an illness like flu or measles, and if someone had those illness then you'd look after them. I can't shake the thought that if I tried harder then I'd be able to make things ok somehow.

Fi hope you do find a solution - I always read peoples' posts and wish I could offer helpful advice but just can't because I don't know.

I honestly don't know how it feels to be depressed, apart from a bit of PND after DD1 was born but that's not the same as non-PND depression I don't think. I understand how it could make you react differently to how you usually do, but I asked H to do two things: 1) do not swear at me and 2) do not threaten violence. He said, I can't make any promises. I'll try, if you don't get on my nerves me. Thats a load of bull, right?

Then I think about all the times over the years... I could fill the AIBU board with tales of H when I accidently got pregnant with DD2 and he just would not give an opinion either way about what we should do. The five month's wages he sent to his parents so they could buy a flat without telling me - not that I want to tell him how to spend his money, but such a large sum that we will never get back - would've liked to have known about it. The time he quit his job and only told me once it was done - again, I wouldn't have stopped him, just would have been nice to have been warned. He is teaching the girls his own language but hates me teaching them English, even though I lived in England for 20 years and see English as my other mother tongue. He said the Christmas presents I bought for the girls were a disgusting waste then went and bought exactly the same toys to send to his niece... I could go on, but life is too short

Then there's food...Has anyone read "A thousand splendid suns"? Don't like the book very much but the way Mariam feels when she watches Rasheed anxiously to see if the food she made is OK, well that's how it was for years. Without the extreme violence, H is nowhere near as bad as Rasheed!

I spent the whole of my 20s with H. Enough is enough.

Nora the last bit of your post really struck a chord: I used to get FW to check the gravy I'd done to see if it was the right consistency as if it was too runny he would kick off!

All your examples are completely unacceptable.

yes read the book

it is safer indoors Hissy ! As I can't trust myself in any relationship to not get back into the same situation again! two like that is certainly enough for me.

I worried I had PND after DD1 born, and kept asking HV whether it was normal to cry nearly every day! She said, it was very normal when someone has the shock of hard labour I had, with very ill baby, after emergency admission, and that it would calm down, and it did.

and yeah Nora I do think its a load of bull. I don't know if I know what it feels like to have depression, apart from that, and why I was very young and just couldn't face the day, and wished I'd never been born. Then the doc put me on Amitriptyline and hauled mother in, but nothing changed!

only just read your post Hissy, just got in and read through, thank you very much for that encouragement. Yeah I try daily to 'convince' myself! (fake it til you make it and loads of other bs mantras! ha!)

and that should say when I was very young, not why !?!?

.. and I have shaken off the fear (mostly) its more trepidation, but not the awful shaking fear that use to freeze me, or drive me to act which only fuelled his cause, or stop me sleeping. Had to face him again in full force for that to happen, sounds similar to what Fly recently described, knowing they can't touch you/hurt you again, putting up your own boundaries.

WA have got me through this far

Haha Hissy!! You are not wrong - always planning in my head! Its like the bloody great escape tunnel....its been 13 years of digging with my bare hands...on the last leg now!

Thinking of you all ladies Leclerc really hope you got your glad rags on and are painting the town red, you deserve it!

In other news....after last nights upset from DD, she has also mentioned it at her grandparents today and been upset again....MIL has rung tonight to let me know she will be raising this with FW tomorrow. F**K - cue back lash on me tomorrow then after she goes home. She has also spoken to FWs best friend about what has been going on here, FW has distanced himself from him for about six months now but he has asked to meet with FW tonight after work and wouldn't take no for an answer this time, FW was mighty confused...I am presuming this is to have a word to FW about whats been going on here. FWBF is not one to take lightly to men bullying women so just worried about this too. FW is showing his true colours to others now and his charming man mask is slipping outside of the house. This is all well and good, but worries me about the impact it is going to have on me as I am normally the one that gets the brunt of it. I have spoken to my DMum this eve and she knows the situation so I will be sending her a 'safe text' and I have my emergency bag ready just incase it does kicks off when he gets home. Oh god.....I know it will be ok if I keep my poker face on but physically feel like I'm about to have a panic attack

Sorted my storage unit today too - another step taken....so just need a house/flat to come up now and then we can be free....wonder if we could move into the storage place?! Its very nice and modern!

Love and strength to all ladies. Back later...