Help! Separation iminent.

[amelia]

Dear All, I wonder if you could help me. My husband and I have been going to relate counselling since October. We've had a dismal time for the last 3/4 years, particularly since we moved up north and baby no.2 was born nearly 4 years ago. I have tried to talk to him on numerous occasions during this time about our situation and in August last year, said I wanted to leave. After the initial argument, he said nothing to me about this, even during our 2 week holiday away when we had evenings to ourselves. I said it again in October and he asked me to go to counselling which I agreed to do. I don't feel any different about him tho'. I don't love him. i feel that I have tried to explain how i felt and he has not understood (or I haven't explained it properly?) Last night, I said I still wanted to leave as I don't want to carry on in a loveless (on my part - he says he still loves me)relationship where I feel uncomfortable with him and unable to rekindle the fires. The reason i am writing is that he has asked that I try and think of something, anything, that he/we can do to try again, as he does not believe that we have tried had enough to solve our problems. I have no idea. we are way past the try and spend more time together/have romantic meals together stuff. I'm lost. I have no idea what to say to him. i feel I have tried my hardest and that sometimes, although it's painful, it is best to let things go and move on, and I do not see us being together anymore. has anyone had a similar experience or could you offer any ideas. I know the above falls far short of a complete description of our marital breakdown but I'd be more than grateful for any comments. And he says it tears him apart that we won't be able to provide a family for our girls, which of course upsets me too and makes me feel that I've let them down.

LWK, no matter what happens, you CAN live without him. It made me sad to hear you say that you can't live without him... I know it's painful but believe me you'll be fine, whatever happens. He should be thankful that he has a younger woman who cares for him so much. Please try and gain the support of any friends or family members you have nearby, and seek legal advice so that you know what your rights are. At least if you end up living apart for a while, it might make him realise that you are still important to him. Best of luck.

Thank you friends for giving me such advice. I do appreciate it.

I went to see our family close friends and I told them what has happened. When I came home, I discovered my husband actually came home and took tent, mat and sleeping bag with him. My friends reckoned my husband might be facing what the term "middle age crisis". I told them if he was facing this phase, I would help him go through it, not just dismissed me like now.

Because my husband ignored my phone calls, my friend's husband phoned him using his own number. They both arranged the meeting. When my friend talked to him I also managed to talk with him but very short. He asked me what I wanted from him and he told me not to chase after him or even look for him because he said he had told me it's finished. My friend said whatever their conversation, he would let me know and would tell me where they were.

About 2.00AM (Saturday) I phoned my friend but my husband answered it. I asked him where he is. He said in Fakenham, Norfolk. I said I wanted to talk to my friend, not with you. I asked my friend whether he has managed to talk to him. He said not yet because they'd just arrived in camping site and now was erecting their tents. My friends told me they were camping to attend bike show rally. I asked him it's true they were in Fakenham. He said yes, it's true. He would phone me in morning, he said.

About 8.00AM (Saturday) my friend phoned me and told me that my husband was still like it was. He didn't want to come home to me or to talk to me. He adviced me just to wait because he guessed that my husband wanted to be alone at the moment, to think. Ok I said, I would let him be alone for a moment.

Sunday late night (11PM) I called my husband, and surprised he answered my call. He told me where he was and he was with our friends. I told him that I missed him very much. He said he knew. About 10.30 this morning (Monday), I called him again and again he didn't ignore my call either. I asked whether he was still at the same house. He said yes. I asked him when he would come home. He told me that we would go to work this afternoon but he would drop the stuff first and got changed.

When he came home, I helped him load his stuff. I helped him choose his clothes. He didn't refuse them at all. I asked how the rally was and he told me. He talked. I cuddled him and said I missed him very much. Although he didn't respond to my cuddle, he said he knew that I loved and missed him.

When he went to work, he still didn't kiss me as usual. He does not wear his wedding ring either. I checked his wallet, he still keep my photographs, and his wedding ring is in his wallet.

My friend informed me that they were spending time together and he said there was no other woman. He told me that my husband doesn't have another woman. He believed that my husband actually still loved me but he might not be able to cope with "middle age crisis" phase.

We have one-bedroomed flat under our names. Although the flat is on both our names, he the one pays the mortgage because I didn't have a job. Since I worked, I also contribte it because all my wages is payed to our joint account. He bought a motorbike (Harley Davidson) three years ago and it is on his name.

He told me that if I wanted to stay in this flat, he would move out. He also wanted to sell this flat and whatever the residue he would give me half. He would go with his bike, said.

I think I would have half share of the bike (although on his name) because he bought it during with me.

So I don't know what will happen to my marriage.

I am a British resident. We don't have any children. I don't have any family because all my family and relative are in Indonesia. The only family I have in this country is my husband. I don't want to tell my parents about my current situation because I don't want them get shocked and angry with my husband. So far they know that my husband has good personaliy, is very caring for me, and is looking after me. I don't want my parents change their image towards my husband. If I told my parents, definitely, they would ask me to go back home because they always say that I am not happy with my husband, there is always a home to go back to.

Hi friends, keep me posting. I really need to talk to anybody. I feel a bit better after I got your response.

LWK - sorry to hear about all your troubles. Maybe you should think about things you can do without him that will make YOU happy. It sounds like you are only happy when he is happy - even if he doesn't decide to leave that is not very healthy. Join a club or take evening classes or something. Good luck

LWK don't agree to any division of yours/your husband's possessions etc until you have sought legal advice as suggested below. You just do not know what you will be entitled to. If things do end up working out with your husband you don't need to tell him that you did it. I understand how alone you must feel with your family on the other side of the world. But don't rush into any decisions. Take your time.

Hi again, this is me again.

He always owns bikes since he was 14 years old but the big one he bought which was 2 years ago.
When he came home last night, he told me I was checking on him at work. I told him Friday morning (1.30AM) I was worried and scared you hadn't come home that's why I called his work. His colleague told me he finished at 9PM (Thursday night). Who knows he had an accident but I didn't know. I told him I usually did that if you came home late or he told me where he was or where he intended to be (might be gather around with his colleague after finished working). You never object it, I said to him.

Mobile phone bill arrived as well yesterday and I gave it to him and I also read it. Since Friday (19/7) He has been text-messaging the person in Italy. Satuday (20/7) and Sunday (21/7) we were camping near Eastbourne. Whenever he vanished from (sometimes he said he went to the toilet) me, he actually text-messaged this person. Now I am very certain that there is another woman behind all of these.

Last night he insulted me and he is even violant to me. He said I was a slag and I was crap in making love. He insisted me to take some and leave for Indonesia. He will sell this flat and he might send me my share. I said to him I was not going to leave this house because it is on joint names. He said he the one who has been paying the mortgage. I didn't contribute at all he said. I just took the money out, he said. I told him that we suggested this before. He look after me and support my parents (I was working back home before coming to this country and had to give up renewing my job contract.). I didn't have anything in this house, he said. Since I lived in this country I always studied and sometimes I worked as an agency. But since July last year I worked full time and my wages go to our joint account. About every 2 months I sent money home (£200), he never objected. He even reminded me if I was late to send money to help my parents.

He planned to retire in my country and from last year we have started to save some money (taken from my wages). Now we have 2 plots of land in Indonesia. He drew/designed how the house to be would look like.

He also wanted to divorce me. I said if he wanted to divorce me, he had to provide me with legal document beacuse I was going to need it. He answered he didn't care what I needed. We've already divorced he said.

Is it true I will not get any share of the flat if we divorce? How about a motorbike he bought while he was with me? The bike values about £13,000. Don't I have share either with that bike? Do you have any idea which legal advice that provides their services for free?

Keep me posting, please.

Dear LWK, I am very shocked reading your post and am so terribly sorry for you. I know nothing about property law but I am sure your husband is trying to frighten you into leaving without what is rightfully yours. As others have posted, try the Citizens Advice Bureau. This would seem increasingly urgent now as you say your husband is becoming physically violent towards you. Please believe that you are not all the things he says - you have shown yourself through your posts to be a caring and loving wife and daughter.

It would seem to me that the time for 'waiting to see what happens' has to end if he is abusive and have stated quite clearly that he wants a divorce. As for the mobile phone calls and text messages, it may be that there is another woman involved, but even if not, do you really in your heart of hearts want to be with a man who has been so cruel to you and has hurt you so badly? I know this must be a very frightening time for you, especially as your friends and family are so far away. Can you talk to anyone about your situation, such as a family doctor who could put you in touch with professionals who may be able to help and advise you? 'Relate' are in the phone book and might be a good first step, even if you feel your relationship is over.

Please try to be strong and have faith in yourself. Sometimes bad things happen for reasons we don't understand, but do not blame yourself. I will be thinking of you and hope you come to a decision soon. Love, oxocube xxx

Hi LWK

I am upset and horrified reading your posts too; you must get professional advice without delay.

NOBODY deserves to be physically and emotionally abused as you are being. As adults we all have the right to change our minds about being in a marriage, but he is treating you as if you are an irritation to be got rid of as quickly as possible.

Look in the phone book for Citizens' Advice Bureaux or find their website (think it is www.cab.org.uk but you need to check).

You need to take action urgently partly because if all your money is in a joint account he could take it all, but mostly because this is an awful, damaging situation for you to be in.

Thinking of you,
love Mopsy xx

LWK

Just caught up with this thread. Can I re emphasise what others have said about getting professional advice as soon as possible. The Citizens' Advice Bureau is an excellent place to start.

Sorry you are going through this. In my opinion, he is treating you very badly. Stay as strong as you can!

Best of luck.

Just want to say that I agree with everyone else. Go to the Citzens Advice Bureau and get some advice. What your husband is doing is very wrong. Keep strong and be brave.

Hi folks, I am very greatful you keep me posting about my situation. I started to follow Mopsy's advice by calling two legal advisors on the phone. Both of them told me that my husband doesn't have rights to abandon me (if he wants to divorce) without sharing anything we have, specially the flat. I told them I am not British but I am a permanent resident in the UK. They said I have the same rights as other wives in this country. They suggested me to calm down and relax because the problem just occured since last week. They were very sure this happens because my husband has a fling with another woman. But they said whatever happens, don't leave the house, don't sign anything, if mortgage is in arrear, they suggested me to get back to them.

I haven't told these legal advisors of my husband being violant to me two nights ago.

My husband hasn't come since last night. I don't know where he is now but he doesn't take any clothes (or anything) with him.

I would like to go to one of Citizen Advice Bureau to seek some help or advice because it's free as I don't have any money. But their opening hours are not possible for me to go there as I am working. They don't open Saturdays (or Sundays). They have telepone advice service but I want to see somebody face to face. Is there anybody knows which Citizen Advice Bureaus that open Monday, Wednesday or Friday after 6.30PM or anytime on Saturdays (or Sundays)? I live in London (Walthamstow E17). If those bureaus are far from Walthamstow, I don't mind at all.

The advisors I had phones are free service. They said one seesion of appointment would cost me £150 + VAT which I think I would be far to be able to provide that kind amount of money.

Thnks guys. Keep me posting please.

LWK

Well done for making contact with advisors and beginning to get some assistance, I'm sure it was not easy.

I don't think you will find a Citizens' Advice Bureau that opens during the hours convenient for you.

Can you talk to someone at work about why you need a day/afternoon off? You don't need to give detail if it embarrasses you, but you could say that you urgently need to seek legal advice for a personal matter and that you need some time off work to do this.

Can you phone the CAB from your place of work? Perhaps they know of other sources of free advice that you can contact.

Here in Somerset women have access to the 'Women's Legal Advice Line', which is free, confidential legal advice for women by women solicitors. I don't know if they only take calls from women in this area, but I would think there is something similar in your area - ask the CAB, they should know. If you want to try the advice line the telephone number is 01225 423703 (Mon-Fri 9am-5pm).

I hope this helps. Mopsy xx

LWK,
just to add my sympathy. It must be hard for you to be going through this in a foreign country, with your family on the other side of the world. If the worst comes to the worst (hope it won't!) there should be lots of books about how to handle a divorce in the public library.

Well done, keep strong. I hope that you will find someone that can advize you soon.

Thanks guys, especially to Mopsy for the the tel no. I am going to try to phone it tomorrow from work.

I am very confused towards my husband. Before he got rid of all our wedding pictures (they were always on the mantelpiece) and put them upside down. But when I came home tonight, I found them on the mantel piece again as usual). He didn't come home last night. My friend told me that he was with her husband and her son which is only about a mile from my flat. My friend was in her parents' house to look after her sick mum, but her husband told her that my husband was staying there. He could not phone me because he was with him but he asked his wife to tell me where my husband was.

About 1PM today, my husband rang me at work. He was at work as well. He said he was doing an early shift. I said to him I thought he was doing late shift. He told me that he changed his shift. I asked where he was staying and he answered in our friend's house. I didn't tell him that I knew already. He told me he wore the same clothes (including underware) as yesterday because he didn't come to get changed.

I asked him whether he was going to Belgium tomorrom. He said yes. I asked him what about me. He told me it was not good idea if I went with him. And then I hang up the phone.

Three days before he told me he didn't love anymore, he sent a cheque for both us to a trip to Belgium with Harley Davidson's club members. Prior to that he asked me whether I was interested to Belgium with the club. I said of course. He knew I was delighted to go, that's why he sent cheque and he wrote to the person who organises it "This is a cheque for our trip because me and my better half would like to go".

He took his wedding ring off. I wondered where he put or he might have thrown it away. I discovered his wedding ring was in his wallet, and he was still keeping my photographs in it as well.

I am very sure there is another woman behind this although he never admits it, not because I am slag or crap in bed. When he said this to me, I insulted him back. I told him he was an old gig who is very rubbish in bed. It's not my kind of behaviour to insult other people, or even to my own husband but he was out of limit. Altough he has done this to me, it's very difficult for me to hate him. I still love him very much and I miss him a lot. I don't think I can hate him at all, even after all these. That makes me very down. I am scared to loose him.

This woman is very clever. She manages to brainwash my husband's brain and mind. My husband is very stupid because he can't think straight at all. He can't tell which is right or wrong.

Keep me posting, please.

I have just come back from holiday and caught up with this thread. I do feel for you, LWK, and have some understanding of the situation because where I used to work in a hospital there were some Philipina staff married/living with English men who had similar problems to you.

I believe the Citizen's Advice Bureau in the City of London (Smithfield Market area) has later opening hours than most. Should be in the London business and services phone directory. Hope that helps.

Oh My God!!! I cannot believe I missed this thread, this is so bloody awful! LWK I am so sorry you have been treated like this, not all British men are like this I can assure you.

You seem to be defending your husband at every turn, can I just ask you why? He told you he does not love you, you suspect he is having an affair, he removes his wedding ring, leaves the house, turns your wedding pictures upside down, threatens you and finally, is violent to you, do you think he is worth defending? What you would advise your best friend or your sister to do if they were in this situation? You are a woman with rights, lots of them. In this country we see both men and women as equal, men do not dominate women and neither should they. An injunction has been mentioned and I think you should go for that! He is probably banking on the fact that you know little of this country's legal systems, that you will not act, that you will be there for him no matter what, it's up to you to show him differently! Don't blame this other woman for brainwashing him, she did not make him hit you, or threaten you, he is not hypnotised. He just thinks his life is one big cake, he has you, his mistress (who he will probably treat just as badly), his house, everything he could ask for. Sounds like he's been using you as some kind of domestic slave!!

You are entitled to the house, as you are his wife, also half his income. You are also entitled to half an hours free legal advice from any solicitor anywhere. Do you to your local Citizen's Advice Bureau, you will find them in your local telephone directory. You must stand up for yourself, you do not deserve to be treated in this way. It has been a very one-sided marriage and you have given him everything a wife could give, and more besides. Now you must start living for you. You have two advantages already, you are young and you are childless, the world is your oyster as they say.

You have received some excellent advice here already, do take it! I also suggest you speak to the police, you do not have to lodge a criminal complaint against him, but they can tell you what your rights are, you can talk to a female officer and she will go through everything with you. Don't be afraid of asking for help, most people here will bend over backwards once they know what has been happening to you. Go to your local embassy too, they can also help. Keep posting and know that you have friends here. If anyone lives in your area maybe they can pop in on you?

Good luck, you are worth more than a hundred of him, once you see him for who he truly is you will find it easier to let go. True love is equality and being respected by your partner, it's about compromises. I hope you find your true love one day, you deserve that much.

leave him alone,
dont phone him,
dont enquire after him,
i think it suits him very nicely to have a little wifey hanging onto his feet like a child.

then should he phone ( because he will phone you) you tell him you have sought legal advice but dont tell him anymore, play him at his game, lets face it girl , you have age on your side.

you have done the running around wondering where he is bit, it isnt working. you need another game plan

Hi guys, thanks very much for your advice. Early yesterday morning, he left me behind for Belgium with our club members to camp in the bike rally there. I don't know whether he will come back home after the rally finishes. According the schedule all member are back tomorrow afternoon, but I don't know about my husband. He took clothes enough only for 2 days, digital camera. I assumed (hoped) he would come home because he had to download the pictures from the camera to our computer. He also had to put together our club newsletter as he is the club editor.

But like all you guys said, I should't leave my flat. Yes I will not leave my flat. I am going to stick to it as legal advisors I phoned adviced so.

I appreciate with Custardo and Rhubarb suggested. But why can't I do that? It's really hard for me to ignore or hate my husband. I love him very much. I wished I had a nerve to do that. Do you think I am so stupid, still hoping he would come back to me, love me, and live together happily like before?

I know I am still young and I am very sure I can find another man who will care for me and love me very much. But it's not as simple as that.

As soon as he proposed to me, I am ready to be with him forever, love him with all my heart, look after him until our lives do part. I have fulfilled all my duties (most important one is our sexual life) as a wife. My world is him. He often gave me complimented either directly to me or in front of our friends. He often said he was so proud being married to me. But now why this suddenly happened to him (and me). Whithin less than 2 days, he turned everything down. He said many nasty things to me that really really hurt me.

But why can't I hate him? Have I gone crazy? Or Am I so stupid?

Keep me posting, friends.

LWK - all this has happened to you from out of the blue, like some dreadful accident. That's why you are still full of love for your husband. You're still in shock and you can't believe any of this is actually happening. As you adjust to your new situation, your emotions will adjust as well.
As far as you were concerned, you were in a loving and committed marriage, and then your husband dropped his bombshell. It will be a while before you know how you really feel about him and your marriage. Don't rush into anything, just take your time. Thinking of you.

Hi, LWK, I re-read your posts last night and was in tears. Why do such horrible things happen to ordinary, nice people? I feel I have to agree with custardo: you have given him everything, every chance to explain, to apologise, to discuss and he has thrown it all back at you. You are not stupid to still love him, but this is all new and your situation will need a lot of thought and adjustment. If he no longer wants you as his wife, please do not hang on as his slave. Things such as turning your photo upside down are things that a child would do. He does not seem worthy of the love and respect you have for him, but then, its your choice. You just seem like a kind, loving person who deserves another shot at happiness. Sorry if this seems judgemental. Keep posting, love, oxocube

Hi my friends, my sipirt comes back to me I am so happy. I've never been as happy as now. My husband comes to my life again.

When he came back from Belgium about 4PM, I heard his motorbike. I opened the gate for him to let him in. He smiled at me. When he was on the door, I cuddled him and said I loved and missed him very much. I thought he won't respond. He cuddled me and squeezed me saying that he also loved and missed me.

He told me that he brought me a present and gave it to me. He told me about the rally and he said to me it was good I didn't go with him because he was very sure I won't like like. The campsite was very muddy and we didn't go anywhere, sight-seeing. He and his friends (ours) stayed together all the time. One of them emailed me asking what's matter with my husband because all the way from London and back to London (they went, stayed, and came back together) on his mouth and mind only my name. He always said he missed me a lot. So my friend asked whether this was his first time going away without me. I said yes. No wonder, he said.

I helped him put away his stuff and he talked. He had shower and after he was clean, he called me to sit on his lap (I used to do that) and cuddled me again. He told me that he reliased he actually loved me very much. He told me when he was in Belgium his mind couldn't be away from me. He said he missed me badly that's why he came home much earlier than his other friends. Most of the club members didn't leave the camsite until 3PM on Sunday. He (with 3 friends) left about 9AM and straight home. He apologised for being so foolish, hurting me both feeling and physically. He said being away to Belgium helped him to think and he reliased that actually he didn't want to loose me either. He didn't want to apart from. "Would you please apologise me, Sa?" he asked me. I will never ever hurt you again, he said. I accepted his apology. Since Sunday night we sleep together in our bed again.

Yesterday morning, on his way to work, he visited our friends (about 1 mile from out flat) and told them we back together. Both of them (husband and wife) said they were very happy to hear that and see us together again. Because I was at home, both of them phoned me saying that my husband told me that we were back and the said congratulation. The husband told me my husband put his wedding ring back on. When I left for work, my husband hadn't put his ring back.

He phoned me at work many times yesterday to say he loved me. He collected me and took me to dinner. It was so nice.

I agree with you guys, just let him go and eventually he can't lie to his own feeling that actually he still loved me. Until he came home Sunday afternoon, I didn't phone him at all.

I hope you are all happy for me. Keep me posting.