Help! Separation iminent.

[amelia]

Dear All, I wonder if you could help me. My husband and I have been going to relate counselling since October. We've had a dismal time for the last 3/4 years, particularly since we moved up north and baby no.2 was born nearly 4 years ago. I have tried to talk to him on numerous occasions during this time about our situation and in August last year, said I wanted to leave. After the initial argument, he said nothing to me about this, even during our 2 week holiday away when we had evenings to ourselves. I said it again in October and he asked me to go to counselling which I agreed to do. I don't feel any different about him tho'. I don't love him. i feel that I have tried to explain how i felt and he has not understood (or I haven't explained it properly?) Last night, I said I still wanted to leave as I don't want to carry on in a loveless (on my part - he says he still loves me)relationship where I feel uncomfortable with him and unable to rekindle the fires. The reason i am writing is that he has asked that I try and think of something, anything, that he/we can do to try again, as he does not believe that we have tried had enough to solve our problems. I have no idea. we are way past the try and spend more time together/have romantic meals together stuff. I'm lost. I have no idea what to say to him. i feel I have tried my hardest and that sometimes, although it's painful, it is best to let things go and move on, and I do not see us being together anymore. has anyone had a similar experience or could you offer any ideas. I know the above falls far short of a complete description of our marital breakdown but I'd be more than grateful for any comments. And he says it tears him apart that we won't be able to provide a family for our girls, which of course upsets me too and makes me feel that I've let them down.

Here here. Go and see someone and stop letting him make you feel guilty. He seems to be using your affair as an excuse to carry on himself ! Just because you had an affair doesn't mean he should too (two wrongs and all of that) or that he should flaunt it in your face and keep using the 'well you started it' thing as an excuse. I don't think he can even be considering the poor kids and I think you definitely shouldn't take any more. What's he doing buying clothes for you - easing his guilt, more bribery !! I can find out a good family lawyer if you want. I guess what you first have to do though is to decide what you want to do. Do you want to formalise your separation etc. Actually you have grounds for divorce with his affair anyway - do you want to get divorced. I don't think you can get on with your life until you get him out of your life.

Thanks Janz and Tillysmummy for your words. I feel I do want a formal separation and I know I do need to see a solicitor but I worry about how I will afford it and also whether I am "strong" enough to go through with it - although really I don't have any choice as it is his decision that he wants us to split. Surely if I divorce him for adultery, he will retaliate with the same accusation - after all, I was unfaithful while we were married - as far as I know he has only started seeing T properly since he told me we were finished.

I am trying to be civil about this and do want to stay friends, but I feel I could also turn nasty and I really do not want to do that. That would benefit no-one, least of all my children.

Tillysmummy - how can you find out about a good lawyer, might need one myself!! And are you in Scotland, using the word lawyer, which they seem to use here in preference to solicitor?

Hi Bumblelion
Don't worry you will be strong enough. You need to do it for you so you can start a fresh which is impossible to do with your current situation. Re him accusing you of adultery - it doesn't matter who admits adultery or who files for divorce I don't think - are you saying that because he doesn't want to he may put obstacles in your way - if that's the case saying that you had an affair to doesn't seem like an argument anyway. I agree it shouldn't get nasty and should be done amicably for the kiddies sake. I am sure if he loves the kids he'll agree too. Why does he want to stay together / not want to get divorced if he is seeing someone else - has he told you ?
I am sure you would eligible for legal aid to help you with the cost.

I left my husband 6 years ago when I had 3 children aged 5, 3, and 5 months. I did my own divorce, which cut down on the messiness, solicitors seem to have a way of stirring things up. I also went to Relate for counselling, which helped loads, he came too at first but when the counsellor refused to insist we got back together he left!

Bumblelion he is being such a bastard! You are still officially married so him seeing this other woman is officially an affair - have you told him this? Next time he throws your affair at him you can throw one back. And how dare he see someone whilst still living with you! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! How can he call you when he is doing just the same!

Could it be that he is trying to hurt you as much as you hurt him when you had your affair? If so he is being extremely childish and putting his relationship with his children in jeopardy - how would they react if they saw daddy with this other woman, as far as they are concerned you two are their sole parents who are still very much together, how insensitive of him to ride roughshot like this over all of your feelings!

If I were you I would not stand for it anymore. As for him buying your clothes, he is trying to sweeten you so that you don't act too quickly with this divorce, as he knows that you would keep the house, so the more he can delay that happening the better. See a solicitor pronto and make it clear to him that if he wants to date other women then you have to make your separation official and he needs to find somewhere else to live - your house is not a hotel! Be strong Bumblelion, you've got this far, don't let this guy take advantage of you. I know you still have feelings for him, but you need to respect yourself and be strong for your children's sake, don't let them see you being trodden on.

You sound such a lovely person, really sincere and caring, you have so much going for you, dump this creep now whilst you still have some self-respect!

Clap clap for Rhubarb ! Bumblelion, I can recommend a family lawyer that will be good and won't rip you off if you like. My dh is a lawyer and my mum is also a counsellor and has done divorces also so I am sure I could find out for you. I can't believe that he can behave in this way. You should be furious. His behaviour is totally unacceptable and he's hardly setting a good example for the family. Be strong and tell his how it is and that you want a divorce and wont stand for it - I bet that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons and certainly surprise / shock him.
One question, why did you have the affair in the first place ? Was it because you were unhappy with him or just a flippant, spare of the moment thing ?

I have asked myself countless times why I had the affair. I think, at the time, it started out as just friends and I enjoyed the attention. My husband never complimented me and this guy at work gave me loads of compliments (I know the ultimate reason he was so nice to me, but at the time it did make me feel good). I now see the error of my ways - I didn't realise what I had until now I have lost it all.

I don't know whether he is seeing T because (1) he wants to and/or (2) he wants to hurt me like I hurt him.

Even though I know we cannot be together, it does really hurt. I do still love him and whenever I try to talk to him about things, I start crying which doesn't help the situation. When he is not in my house (like last night), I feel absolutely fine (I only got angry when I realised the time and he still wasn't home). It is when he is in the house that I find it hard to deal with. He knows I want to be with him and I do still love him, and it is hard for me to see in my house and know that I cannot be with him.

I feel like he is rubbing my face in it - I know I shouldn't but I do tell him that I love him and want to be with him and I feel he uses this to his advantage.

I know you can't live with hindsight, but I wish I could turn back the clocks. We have been together 17 years in May and married for 10 and I cannot believe I have thrown it all way.

I know for my own sanity I have got to move on and get over this - it is just harder in reality to do this.

When I think of him with T, I feel so angry and jealous. I feel sick in my stomach with butterflies - it really is a horrible feeling. I know I am stupid to feel this way - after all, he doesn't want to be with me and he said, quite rightly, that he understands why I feel angry, upset, etc. because I am dealing with (his words) rejection!

Once you have got advice you will have the confidence to be strong, you will know exactly where you stand. Watch his face when he realises you are taking control.

Bumblelion, What's happening with you - are you OK?

Salalex, thank you for asking, but, unfortunately, I feel I am not okay. I had a really bad weekend at home. I went out with friends Friday night and J went out with his "friend" from work on Saturday night. At the time, I didn't feel too bad but I spent all day Sunday and Monday in tears - not good with the children around. I didn't sleep at all (and I mean no sleep "at all" Sunday night and I think that didn't help with how I felt on Monday as I was also tired as well as upset.

I had quite a few phone calls on Monday from various friends and each time I started crying on the phone. Normally I am quite strong but it seems that everything is getting on top of me at the moment.

On Monday night, a good friend of mine phoned from the local pub where she goes after going to the gym and said that if I fancied popping out, I could meet them there (both friends I know from my childrens' school). One of the friends is going through exactly what I am going through although she is about 3 months further on in her developments than I am. I went out after the two youngest were in bed and got to the pub at just gone 8 pm.

I didn't have a very good night out, but at least we could all talk and try to gain strength from each other.

Anyway, when I got home (which was just after 11) I felt I couldn't sleep so I went up into the loft where J is sleeping. I sat on one of our office chairs and asked if he was asleep. We started talking (with me trying unsuccessfully not to cry) and he did give me a hug - although I am not sure if that made me feel better or not. It felt good at the time, but J was worried that I might read more into it than it really is. Without being too personal, I really wanted to make mad passionate love to him and he knows I wanted to, but he said he didn't think it would be a good idea as I would have to live with myself the next day and also I might think that we are getting back together, although I know deep down we are not.

At the time, I felt very embarrassed and humiliated and I text him on his phone yesterday apologising for my behaviour. I felt really horrible - I want him but can't have him.

J turned round Monday night and said that he does feel it might be better if he moves out and this made me all the more hysterical - I don't want to lose him, although I know I already have.

He did say that he would stop going out and agree to stay in for say 3 months until I get over this (if I ever will) but he said, quite rightly, that I wouldn't want to stay in for 3 months and he is right. I need to get out to keep my sanity.

I feel so devastated that I am losing (have lost) my husband and I feel upset that I imagined growing old with him and it is hard to accept the fact that I will not.

My friends tell me to be strong (which I normally am) and that I will get through it.

My friend on Monday night said something which I think may be true. She said that perhaps I feel worse because I am not in control of the situation, i.e. it is J's decision for us to no longer be together. If it was my decision, it would obviously be easier to live with.

I know we cannot ever be together and even if I live in hope that things will be better in the future, I know deep down that I am kidding myself. It just feels so hard at times and I feel so lonely but I know I will (and have to) get over this.

I bet you wish you hadn't asked how I am now!!

Bumblelion,

I am so sad for you reading your message. I can't begin to imagine how it must feel. I can't help but feel he is taking advantage of how vulnerable you are although I do commend him for not taking advantage of you the other night.
If he definitely doesn't want to make a go of it then I think, however hard it is, you need to tell him to go (Sounds like he thinks this is a good idea anyway) so you can at least get on. You said yourself it's easier when he's not there and harder when he is because it's always reminding you of what you can't have. He needs to go to allow you to get all your hurt, anger and upset out of your system and then start a fresh and pick up the pieces.
Do you have plenty of good friends and family around you for support ?

Bumblelion, this sounds so sad.

I agree with whoever said that he really does have to move out if your marriage is definitely over. Maybe some distance will mean that you are able to be civil to each other and get some perspective?

If he is not going to forgive you and carry on with your marriage then he really does have to move on so that you can too. I also think that it's TOTALLY unacceptable IMO for him to see other women romantically while he is still in your marital home and officially married to you. (although I guess he would probably come back to your affair, again, should you say this. Still, you've said you are sorry and he needs to stop punishing you for it).

Lots of sympathy.

One thing I forgot to say Bumblelion is that I totally understand why you had an affair if he never paid you any compliments / made you feel good. This is v important in my mind.
Also back to the moving out thing. Not only must he do it for your sake but also for the kids.

Thanks for your kind words. I know he has to move out but I don't want to let him go. I am sitting in work at the moment and just feel like curling up in a ball and crying. Last night I took the two eldest children swimming when he came in from work and when I got in after swimming I just sat in the front room, with tears running down my face, looking at him knowing I cannot have him. He did come over and give me a cuddle. This made me feel a bit better, but also hurts like hell as I want more and I know he is only doing it as a "friend".

When I try to analyse how I feel, I am not sure if I am upset because:-

(1) It is him that is in control, i.e. finishing it and it wasn't my decision.
(2) I know we cannot ever have a good relationship again, but may be I just don't want anyone else to have him either.

I know, deep down, it is best if he moves out but I just don't feel strong enough at the moment to deal with it.

I have got a few very close, very good friends who are very supportive and normally me and my mum have a very good relationship but now, when my mum rings and asks how I am, I normally say "okay" or "fine".

When she rang on Monday and I cried on the phone, I told her that we are finished, etc. She couldn't get off the phone quick enough but did ring me back about 4 times in the afternoon. Each time, when she asked how I was, I told her that "no, actually I am not fine" and she would just ring off and say she would call back later.

Your mum probably isnt' the best person at the moment because of all she is dealing with.

Move on, I promise it will be worth it. You can't really want to be with someone who doesn't want you ? You deserve better. You will give yourself the opportunity of meeting someone who deserves you if you get him out.

The reason you don't feel strong enough is because he's sapping all your strength and constantly rubbing salt into the wound. Get him out girl ! Give yourself a chance to lick your wounds and heal and then start getting out there and having a good time. There are plenty of princes out there. I found one second time around.

Use your good friends for support and to go out with. In fact, let him have the kids for a night and why don't you go away for a whole day and night with your friends to a hotel somewhere, get away from it all, have some good chats, get it all into perspective, get your strength up and when you get back, be resolute in asking him to leave.

Bumblelion, have you got MSN Messenger on your PC ?

Yes, I have got MSN Messenger although I don't know how it works although I am sure I can find out!

I agree with what you say about getting away. I did in fact tell him that I fancy a weekend away in Brighton - nothing too fancy - just me and my two friends - go on Friday, come back Sunday, a bit of shopping and having some good nights out. He actually seemed fine about it - I think I will actually get on and organise it. It won't cost much more than a normal weekend out (one night he is out, one night I am out) because we will only stay in a cheapy B&B - I don't want anything fancy, just somewhere to put my head at night before we hit the town "big time".

Hi Bumblelion, just load msn messenger and then log in - what's your hotmail address ?

I don't have a hot mail address as our company has put a block on it.

Boring ba---rds ! That put that idea to bed then ! Are you feeling any better ?

Actually, I am feeling a lot more positive now than I was this morning. I think I am a very strong person but sometimes it feels like everything is just too much but just writing things down here helps.

Great, keep feeling that way. I don't know you but I am sure your a great catch and you should be with someone who deserves you.

Much sympathy, bumblelion. I can't offer any advice based on experience, because I havn't been where you are.

Just wondered, though, would it help to talk to your dh about how, when and where he will see you and the children after you are living apart. If you can visualise how things could be, it might then be easier to tell your dh to go, if you decide to be the one to end this living arrangement.

Thinking of you.