Help! Separation iminent.

[amelia]

Dear All, I wonder if you could help me. My husband and I have been going to relate counselling since October. We've had a dismal time for the last 3/4 years, particularly since we moved up north and baby no.2 was born nearly 4 years ago. I have tried to talk to him on numerous occasions during this time about our situation and in August last year, said I wanted to leave. After the initial argument, he said nothing to me about this, even during our 2 week holiday away when we had evenings to ourselves. I said it again in October and he asked me to go to counselling which I agreed to do. I don't feel any different about him tho'. I don't love him. i feel that I have tried to explain how i felt and he has not understood (or I haven't explained it properly?) Last night, I said I still wanted to leave as I don't want to carry on in a loveless (on my part - he says he still loves me)relationship where I feel uncomfortable with him and unable to rekindle the fires. The reason i am writing is that he has asked that I try and think of something, anything, that he/we can do to try again, as he does not believe that we have tried had enough to solve our problems. I have no idea. we are way past the try and spend more time together/have romantic meals together stuff. I'm lost. I have no idea what to say to him. i feel I have tried my hardest and that sometimes, although it's painful, it is best to let things go and move on, and I do not see us being together anymore. has anyone had a similar experience or could you offer any ideas. I know the above falls far short of a complete description of our marital breakdown but I'd be more than grateful for any comments. And he says it tears him apart that we won't be able to provide a family for our girls, which of course upsets me too and makes me feel that I've let them down.

He did say that he didn't know when to stop trying to win me back - but that maybe he'd come to the end of the line. You just have to trust your heart I think. It seems like it was easy to trust it when we decided to get together and have children. There was never a doubt in my mind that I'd made the right decision to marry him. Leaving is so much harder. And should I stay here where I have a job (to which I think I'm going to have to return full time now, but I don;'t think i'll join the thread debating that - looks all too fraught!) and where the children have school (youngest 3 due to start in August - eldest 6 in P2)and I have few friends, or return down south to be nearer family, start new job, new school, have no friends. Oh for a crystal ball. He thinks I'll stay for a year, then decide to move and then he won't be able to get a job near us and he'll be one of these dads who has a mega journey every other weekend to see his kids. My brain is mince! Thanks for writing.A.

Loobie, You must have felt awful about the wedding thing. Does he ever want to get married do you think? Mind you, you probably don't now- do you? I can't understand men - apologies for generalisation - but why is it you seem to have to tell them something so many times before it hits home? I told mine i didn't love him in Aug 99 when we were on holiday, and he didn't throw his hands up in the air and say - what shall we do about it? he just left it to fester. Yes, I could have gone on about it, but I wanted something to come from him after all the c**p I'd taken off him in the preceding 2/3 years. Same when I told him this year I wanted to leave - took about 3 goes before he responded and suggested counselling. I really do feel sometimes that men and women just do not understand each other - with apologies to all of you in happy relationships, I am probably all bitter and twisted at the moment. What are you thinking of doing next Loobie ?

Esme, yes I am in a very similar situation to yours and I am sure many others are too. My dh (yes, he is still the d part of dh) puts it down to tiredness. He has a stressful job and is, in my view, a bit overprotective of our ds which seems to leave very little energy for desire or at least acting on any desire!

Like yourself, I have often felt that dh stays with me because of our ds and that I should call it a day - after all what is the point if he's not in love with me? But , I think most of the time, I try to ignore my feelings as we get on well and at this stage it just seems easieer (safer?) to stay together.

sorry for the ramble but I wanted you to know that you are not alone.

Amelia i told him last night that it was all over and i wanted him to leave.I slept in the kids toy room last night to reinforce what i said(ive never slept out of our bed before).Today i went to the bank to get a new bank account and changed all the relevant finances.We did talk a bit today but i just kept enforcing the fact that it doesnt matter what is said i cannot live with him any longer,i dont love him in fact i dont even think i like him.He wasn't very happy and i did start to feel guilty but i have to be strong,the only reason i would change my mind is cause i felt sorry for him.I have asked him to go by friday so i just have to wait and see,tomorrow im going to see a solicitor about rights etc,we are not married and the house is in my name and his name is not on the kids birth certificates so hopefully i won't have many problems.I'm from about 20 miles outside Edinburgh.

Loobie - just a thought regarding your 8 year old son. Have you heard of the book by Stephen Biddulph (spelling?) called Raising boys - there might be useful information in it for you ??? Just a thought.
I liked parts of the book not all I have to say but it does talk about "boy" behaviour/issues.
All the best to you and Amelia !!!

Loobie, thinking of you, hope your okay(?) Amelia, how are you?

Oh Loobie, hope you are OK. Has your partner been crying, angry or what? I have been thinkng about you. Wish I had been brave enought to take action like that ages ago. meanwhile north of Edinburgh, we are back to counselling tonight. Husband says he thinks Ihaven;t tried hard enough, but I think all I could do to prove to him that I had tried hard enough is get back with him in the proper sense and at the mo, I don't want to. I feel quite positive about my future without him, but he is in a state about not seeing the children and thinking that he'll loose touch. I think if he wants to stay in touch then he will and if he looses touch it'll be his own fault as I would never stop him seeing them. I have said I am not willing to move out. He is talking about getting a job elsewhere and just coming home on weekends to give us some space. I am not looking forward to tonights session at all - I feel OK when I'm at work and not with him, but it all gets so intense at home I could scream.
Let us know how you get on Loobie.

My dh also had a job working away from home 3 weeks out of 4 and all this did was enforce how easy life would be for me so it didn't really benefit him at all.We have been talking for the last two days and i have continued to sleep apart from him,yes i have had the tears and the i love you's ,i will do any thing for you but i have told him that i dont care for him any more and that i have no feelings for him any longer.He still wants to try and fix it he doesn't think the relationship is in such bad state but i must admit that i have ended up screaming at him that i just dont care anymore and why should i stay just because he wants me,should i have to stay and live out my life in misery just to please him,i'm sorry but i just can't do it.He keeps saying that i don't seem as if i even want to fix up and i keep telling thats because i dont,i listen to myself and think how rotten i sound but i'm determined that at 25 i am not being kept in a relationship that means nothing to me.Does that sound really cruel?

Loobie, oh dear. Hope you're OK. You could ask him for a trial separation to see how you both feel whilst you are apart. Unfortunately this may give him false hopes but may also make him realise things are really over.

Why is his name not on the kid's birth certificates? R

Keep posting

i Was wondering Loobie. Please forgive me for being nosy and tall me to mind my own buisness if this is private. But how come his name isn't on your childrens birth certificate. Forgive me if I've missed something.
P.s Hope you sort things out soon. And at 25,remember you have got your whole life in front of you and you will find love again one day. That will make all the pain worthwile.

We are not married so he had to come with me to register the kids,we didn't know this first time round and i registered him on the last day allowed,second time round i suppose i just didn't want the boys to ask years later why one had daddies name and not the other.I suppose one day they may ask why neither has a name but i'll cross that bridge when i come to it,i really just didn't want them to be different.

loobie, are you there? How's things this evening?A

Loobie, Have you freinds and/or family around to help you through this horrible time? And anyone to talk to - apart from us lovely mums! I hope you are not feeling to on your own with your boys. We had to cancel counselling tonight as one of ours had to be picked up early from nursery as she's a bit poorly. I was a bit annoyed as I hoped we were going to talk sensibly about some stuff and not get too emotional, but I guess we'll just have to try and do it without the help of a 3rd party.I don't know about you, but my life is surely lacking in the fun department right now.

well my resolve has weakened again and we are trying again.Ds has had his assessment and conmfirmation of what i expected,so i think this has taken a lot of pressure off.We have had a really serious talk about absolutely everything and he has agreed to let me have some ME space,so tonight i am going out with friends and am going to get extremely drunk and have a ball.

Oh yes, resolve. I used to have some of that. Mine's weakened too - we're taking tentative steps to see if there's anything worth salvaging, but he knows as I do, that this is the last chance saloon, and if we just can't get it together it's all over. I'm off out to get drunk tomorrow -have a good time Loobie!!

amelia how r you getting on, i have told dp that we can take it a month at a time to see how we get on.But so far he is not exactly acting like someone who wants to save his relationship,after all it is only him who wants to save it.He packed in his job without discussing it with me and he didn't tell me until three days later when he had to go to work but had no where to go.We are supposed to be working with ds on his aspergers diagnosis,one of the things he really needs is sameness,he eats off the same plate,drinks from the same cup,must have the same bedding all the time etc etc,but tonight dp gave him his brothers plate and ds immediatley became distressed and cried i cant eat that blah blah,but instead of swapping plates round dp screamed at him to eat it and stop the carry on which then led to another row about it not just being a carry on but in fact a real problem,from there it just got worse dp continued to wind up ds until i yelled at him and he stormed out in a huff,peace at last.at this rate i cant even see it lasting the first month.I really dont feel any different and cant see us getting to grips at all,on one hand he is playing with the kids, being nice to me etc then the next minute he's as grumpy and temperamental as ever and i really can't hack him.He suggested counselling when we had the last row which is something i never thought i would hear him say but it's also something that i don't feel would make any difference to us as there's no way any thing could make me love him again,it seems we are just plodding along waiting for the next big row to come along and bring up the separation issue again,really don't know how much longer i can hold up the whole situation is really getting me down,why can't he just accept what ive said,ive told him i no longer love him in fact i dont feel anything for him anymore but still he insists on staying to try and sort things out.sometimes i really really could cry,how at 25 did i let myself get into this?

Loobie, believe me - you are not alone in your situation. I am 34 and have been with my husband since just before I was 17. We have been married 10 years and have 3 lovely children. I hold my hands up and say that all our problems stem from the fact I had an affair with a guy at work which I confessed all to my husband about. The only reason I confessed is that I thought I should be "fair" to my DH so that he could decide if he wanted to stay with more or not based on all the facts.

This confession (and affair) were over 2 years ago now and we have a new baby of 3 1/2 months so I thought everything was going to work out fine.

DH told me New Years Eve he was leaving, but he is still here. I do still love him, but I don't think I actually like him any more what with all he says to me.

Just after New Year, he decided he would try and make a go of it again, but last night he told me that he feels he can never forgive me and it is time he stopped hurting me all the time. I wasn't too shocked and actually feel quite relieved that I now know where I stand.

Before it always felt I was on an emotional roller-coaster ride - one minute thinking everything was going to be okay, then the next minute him hitting me with another bombshell like he came out with last night.

In the past he has told me that I am:-

Selfish!
Arrogant!
Self-centred!
Irresponsible!

Because I had an affair with a guy at work, he asked me what it feels like to be called the " (name of company) slapper". I am not a slapper, I just made one BIG mistake in my past and am now being made to pay for it BIG TIME.

Because of the way he has treated me recently, I feel I have been made to pay enough and am not willing to take any more.

My main concern is my 3 chldren and their happiness but (perhaps this is me being "selfish" I don't think you should stay in a relationship just for the children.

I know I am not a bad, horrible person - I just made one mistake in my life (the biggest mistake I know anyone could make), but I am not the first married woman to have an affair, and I am sure I won't be the last. I would never go down that route again but the ways things are going at the moment, I can never again be accused of having an affair because, surely, you have to be in a relationship to be unfaithful. If you are "not together", then how come you are being unfaithful.

bumbelion,i agree with you when you say that you have paid for your mistake(time and again by the sounds of it)if your H cant get over it then he really should stop punishing you for it,he cant keep it up forever.I dont think its healthy for kids to be in this sort of environment and its not fair to stay in a relationship just for them.We have and still are having huge problems but dp is intent on trying to make it work when i have told him that i no longer feel anything for him,he is getting on better with the kids just now but i still dont feel any different towards him,so now i'm left feeling 'well he's getting on better with the kids and treating them better so do i stay now because the kids are happier'we have been together 9 years and in that time i have never looked at another man but lately i have been participating in a bit of mutual flirting at work ,though would never contemplate taking it any further(no offence meant!!)thsi just adds to the conformation that i feel nothing for my relationship any more.How do we end up like this? do you think there is a true love forever out there for us all? well heres hoping everything goes for the best for both of us.

p.s my p.c is playing up big style so my postings may be a bit erratic only when the blasted thing chooses to work.speak again soon *loobie

Loobie,
Are you still around? I have been having some technical problems (if only they were the least of my worries!)but am back now. How are things with you? are ou still taking things one month at a time? We are supposed to be trying again but my heart is just not in it and I feel such a s*t. He keeps talking about things to do around the house and we'll do this later in the year etc. but I just can't work up any enthusiasm. He's been trying really hard - why can't I just get on with it. My friend keeps saying (despite me saying I don't want to talk about it) that I must try and i should stay withhim and what about the children etc and when I said but what about what if i don't want to ( I sound like a petulant child I know) she said but I must want to! I don't know how I can love him again when I don't want to be physical with him. I wish I had been stronger and just left. What a cow. One of my kids said thaey never wanted to leave out house they liked it so much today, which made me feel even worse. What is the matter with me? You were right - how do we end up like this? I am totally p**ed off! Hope you can write soon. And how are you Bumblelion? Things any better for you at the mo? A.

Amelia, things have taken a bit of a turn for the worse where I am concerned.

My (ex) husband, J, told me on Saturday that he is seeing a girl from his work. I did have an idea of this but to have it confirmed is a bit of a kick in the teeth.

He took her to a party Saturday night and also went for a drink Sunday night.

Last night he went to her house after work to put some bedroom furniture together for her. He said he would be in at 9 and didn't come in until 1:40 this morning. I know what time it was as I woke up and looked out my bedroom window to see if he was home (he sleeps in the loft) and saw his car wasn't there. Because our land-line phone was not working, I went downstairs to text him to see where he was and just as I was about to send the message, he came in. He asked if I wanted to talk or if I wanted to sleep, and I said sleep. Saying that, I didn't get to sleep until about 4 o'clock this morning.

J said to me on Saturday that there is no point us having secrets between us and that is why he is telling me he is seeing T.

I think, deep down, I always hoped we might get back together again but he has confirmed to me that this is not going to happen.

I asked him yesterday on the phone what his long term plans are, i.e. is he going to move out at any time, as I don't feel I can get on with my life while he is still living with me (albeit in the loft). He said I was being selfish, self centred and only thinking of myself. He told me I would have to explain to the kids why daddy was no longer living with us - i.e. we separated because of an affair (my biggest mistake of my life) and also why he had moved out - because I had asked him to.

I said I think we should see someone and I think he thought I meant Relate because he turned round and said there is no-one that can help our relationship now. I said "no, I was thinking of a solicitor" to at least get our separation down on paper so we can file for divorce in however many years it is. If I am to no longer be with him, then I don't want to be married to him.

Oh what a life! I know things will get easier (although they may get harder before they get easier).

Whenever I think of J was seeing T, it really hurts as I know her, she knows me and she knows we have a 5 month old baby. I think she should have more compassion than to see my husband, although I know it is his choice to see her too.

Bumblelion, nice of him to keep blaming you for everything even though he is now seeing someone else. I think you should go and see a solicitor. As you are really now seperated, dont quote me, but I think you can now ask him to leave as he is invading your privacy (I had a similar thing when I seperated from my first husband as he wanted to keep coming back to the house whenever he liked. I allowed once aday but anymore I would have got a solicitors letter to keep him away until I moved out of the house). Perhaps his new girlfriend would like to put him up for a while?
Pecker up dont let him emotionally blackmail you all the time with your affair.

Bumblelion. It sounds like he's blackmailing you. What sort of environment does he think he's providing for the kids. I wonder what questions pop into their heads. Mummy and daddy live together but sleep in separate rooms and daddy has a girlfriend. I think that's terrible and he can't expect you to live like that. How can you get on in those circumstances ? Do you fight a lot ? If you do I would say it's happier for the kids to have two parents who love them dearly but are happier people apart than together and miserable. I'm talking from experience because my my mum and dad divorced when I was 10 and it was definitely for the better.

Bumblelion,
Sorry things are not good (a big understatement probably) for you at the moment. Try Citizens Advice who will be able to tell you your rights for free. Clearly you can't go on like this indefinitely, which you seem to be becoming reconciled to, even though you wanted him back. It's better to end it sooner rather than later if that's the way it's going to go anyway IMO. Every time you mention the affair, you say the biggest mistake of your life. It seems to me like you've paid for it and then some, with your husband being this way towards you. Please don't torture yourself about it anymore, you did it, you wish you hadn't, but you did. So let go of it (if your husband doesn't keep reminding you of it) and put it down to a big chunk of experience. I REALLY don't mean to sound hard, I'm on your side, but I can't bear to think of you keeping on beating yourself up about it. You're not a slapper, nor I would guess are you selfish, arrogant or self-centered. You're a lovely woman with 3 great children who love you and you deserve to be happy - so there!!!Write again soon. A.

He NEVER does anything with the children - if ever we have a day out, go to the park, go to the pictures, swimming lessons, etc. etc. it is always me that does it. He says he doesn't like Chessington, Legoland, etc. Last year, the weekend of his birthday, he took our daughter to Chessington for the day with T from work who he now admits he is seeing. When he said about taking our DD to Chessington for the day, on one hand I was not happy as he never comes with me and it only seemed he went because he was invited by T (who went with her daughter too) but on the other hand I thought I couldn't say anything as I always say to him that he never does anything with her and I know she would have enjoyed the day. I was 8 months pregnant at the time and after spending a day at Chessington, he came home, showered, changed and went straight out again for the night, also with T and other people from work. Didn't get home until 4 am!

He asked when the kids start their swimming lessons again and it is the week after next. He said he wants to take them out for the day. He will leave the baby with me which I don't mind and I don't mind him taking them out for the day although I am sure they will think it strange as he has NEVER taken them out before. The only thing I need to get clear is that I don't him T going as well. I don't think that would be fair on the children. I don't mind him taking them on his own.

The really strange thing is that I went out Monday night with my two friends. J NEVER EVER comes shopping with me, but actually came to our local shopping centre with me on Monday and bought me some trousers and a top to wear on my night out. That, in my mind, is really strange.

I was going to take the children to a friend's seaside bungalow on Monday but my eldest daughter stayed at a friends Sunday night and I didn't pick her up in time to take them to the coast. Anyway, on Sunday, J seemed very interestd in whether I was taking the kids out for the day. I asked him if he had arranged to see T and he said that if he wasn't seeing her Sunday night then he would have taken her out for lunch Monday but, because he did see her Sunday night, he wouldn't see her Monday during the day.

I know I have got to stop feeling guilty about my affair - I have to forgive myself so I can move on.

Bumblelion - like Amelia, I'm gong to sound hard, but you NEED to see a counsellor or someone from Relate. Not to patch things up with your h, but to help you move forward. You can't keep carrying this baggage of guilt. It's not healthy for you or your kids. It would help if your h was prepared to see the counsellor too, but not essential. His comments about you are HIS problem - that's his way of absolving himself from any responsibility. But the way you react to them is in YOUR control. You need to get on with YOUR life. You need to work out what is best for the children - again your h seems to be absolving himself of any direct responsibility (ie he's the back-up, you're the prime carer).

You NEED to see a solicitor (or Citizens' Advice as a first step) to get advice about your position - for your sake and for your children's sake.

You've agreed before that you need to do this.

Now DO it!