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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help! Separation iminent.

187 replies

amelia · 10/01/2002 11:14

Dear All, I wonder if you could help me. My husband and I have been going to relate counselling since October. We've had a dismal time for the last 3/4 years, particularly since we moved up north and baby no.2 was born nearly 4 years ago. I have tried to talk to him on numerous occasions during this time about our situation and in August last year, said I wanted to leave. After the initial argument, he said nothing to me about this, even during our 2 week holiday away when we had evenings to ourselves. I said it again in October and he asked me to go to counselling which I agreed to do. I don't feel any different about him tho'. I don't love him. i feel that I have tried to explain how i felt and he has not understood (or I haven't explained it properly?) Last night, I said I still wanted to leave as I don't want to carry on in a loveless (on my part - he says he still loves me)relationship where I feel uncomfortable with him and unable to rekindle the fires. The reason i am writing is that he has asked that I try and think of something, anything, that he/we can do to try again, as he does not believe that we have tried had enough to solve our problems. I have no idea. we are way past the try and spend more time together/have romantic meals together stuff. I'm lost. I have no idea what to say to him. i feel I have tried my hardest and that sometimes, although it's painful, it is best to let things go and move on, and I do not see us being together anymore. has anyone had a similar experience or could you offer any ideas. I know the above falls far short of a complete description of our marital breakdown but I'd be more than grateful for any comments. And he says it tears him apart that we won't be able to provide a family for our girls, which of course upsets me too and makes me feel that I've let them down.

OP posts:
Mopsy · 04/06/2002 12:27

Salalex
I was so sorry to read your message this morning, and as I only found mumsnet a couple of weeks ago I found your postings as 'Amelia' so I could understand what you have been going through.

It sounds as though you have tried so hard to make your marriage work - you must keep reminding yourself of this in moments of doubt. I admire your tenacity - I too realised I no longer loved ex-dp (father of ds and dd) in summer 1999, but in our case I asked him to move out 3 months later. I just knew that I didn't want him any more for various reasons, including being a fairly useless and unreliable father.

I sympathise with you enormously in having to decide whether to remain where you are or to move nearer your family. I feel lucky that this was not a choice I had to face, I knew definitely where I wanted to be and it was also best for the children. Ultimately you need to work out where you think you can best rebuild your life and feel at home - if you have close family nearby it can make a world of difference.

I don't feel I've been much help but please keep posting, I will think more and offer you more thoughts as they come, meanwhile kindest regards
Mopsy xx

WideWebWitch · 04/06/2002 13:22

Salalex, I feel for you too. Been there. Not sure if this is any help but quick thoughts:

  • Be civil and friendly as far as possible. The view is nicer from the moral high ground

  • Don't involve the children in any arguments. Tell them only when you've decided what to do. Reassure them that you and DH will always be their mummy and daddy, but that you will be happier if you don't live together. They need to know that they will still see him. 1 happy parent is better than 2 miserable ones IMHO.

  • Talk about it as much as you need to here and with friends who are on your side (much as I hate to use adversarial language, can't think of a better expression).

  • Do things that make you feel good. Walking, outings with other parents, whatever you've got the time and inclination to do.

  • Don't leave the house or agree to anything re custody of the children (think it's called residence now actually). They need some continuity.

  • Don't move or do anything too drastic in other areas of your life if you can help it. Sort your marriage out first and think about everything else later.

  • Your children will be ok even if you separate as long as they are loved and re-assured.

You will very likely come out of it with your sanity intact (and be happier, eventually) but it is hard at first. When I left DH he was very hostile, but has since come round and is a good loving and responsible father to our son. It can take time though. Lots of sympathy and good wishes. Hope this doesn't sound too preachy or smug, I'm not either I hope, but these things helped me when I was in a similar position to you. Although I messed up some of them: hindsight is a wonderful thing And I read your posts as Amelia and it sounds as if you made up your mind a while ago about this. Good luck.

mears · 05/06/2002 11:22

I have been supporting a friend for over a year now going through difficlt times in her marriage. They have 4 children but have got to the point of no communication.
They have been to Relate which was hopeless. They have now started going to Mediation which puts the focus on the children. They have had great advice and support and are talking about how they will split amicably and still be good parents.
From a situation where no-one was going to move out, it has been agreed by them both that he will move out and arrangements have been made for the children that they are both happy with.
Once they have sorted out all the final points with the counsellors, they will then go to the lawyer to make it legal. Far more civilsed and it has actually got them talking sensibly to each other.

salalex · 05/06/2002 16:31

Thank you very much for writing. We had quite a good talk last night. He still keeps saying he thinks we - or I really- haven't tried hard enough but as I;ve said before where do you begin?And there comes a time when you have to draw a line under things and move on. We are going on hols soon (including a visit to the in-laws, which I don;t relish, as I feel v. awkward, although they are very nice)so when we come back I think it'll be time to decide what is going to happen and the practicalities of it all. Mediation is a good idea Mears - and no WWW, you don't come across smug, although your view from the moral highground thing made me smile! I odn't think he will ever think we tried enough, but however bad I feel, I don;t see what else I can do. Thanks all. Mopsy, let us know what happens when dp gets home!

Mopsy · 05/06/2002 22:20

Can't think of anything to add to the wise WWW's excellent advice, but send you cyberhugs and very best wishes. Keep posting xx

salalex · 09/06/2002 20:35

Thanks Mopsy. Hope things go well for you too.

Loobie · 10/06/2002 11:23

salalex/amelia its loobie, i have returned from the deep dark yonder of broken down computers and no mumsnet.i see things are still going the same way with you,sorry to hear it.i have really missed your support but i have good news we appear to be getting on a little better and are in fact incubating child no.3, a bit of an untimely shock but we are adjusting.my p.c gave up the ghost completley and needed a new hard drive which is why i suddenely disappeared but im back now and cant wait to hear from you.

salalex · 10/06/2002 13:04

Loobie!!!! Thought we'd lost you forever! I was thinking of you only yesterday. In work so can't really write now - more later. Glad you are OK and things are going better.S/A!

salalex · 10/06/2002 22:42

Hi Loobie,
Congratulations on No. 3. I have just re read your postings - how did you do it?! By which I mean, how did you and dp get back on track. Did you have a complete change of heart, or have things just gradually improved. My dh and I (sorry, sound v. royal and pompous there!)get on better,in that we talk a lot more, but I can't say in all honesty that I love him , or that I want to be physical with him still, so thats; why I think the game is up really. I'm very conscious of that fact I am going on about this, and may very well be boring the pants off people. Really glad you are back Loobie - and isn't the weather in Scotland complete PANTS at the moment!! Are you in Fife BTW?

salalex · 10/06/2002 22:47

Sorry Loobie, forgot to ask how your DS is getting on and how you are managing the Aspergers. I'm afraid i don't know much about it - what is it, and what can you do to help him?

Loobie · 11/06/2002 15:15

salalex i dont really know we got where we are right now.I'm still not overly in love with him and as i said this was a bit of an untimely baby.I wasn't really exact about taking my pill as we wern't doing anything then obviously we did at one point and well the rest speaks for itself.
The new problems are that he is really unreceptive to the pregnancy so now i have to deal with that as well as his problems with ds.But he is becoming slightly better with ds so it's a start,i cant say that i love him now as i dont and i cant say that we are officialy sorted and back together but we decided that it's unfair to this baby not to have a damn good try at fixing things.Ds problems with the aspergers have increased ten fold with him being at school they are a total nightmare with him recieving very little in the way of education as they dont know how to deal with him,so as you can imagine with all this going on i feel like upping sticks and running away.
Aspergers is a form of autism,it means that he doesn't see things as others do ,he cant cope with normal surroundings i.e noise,busyness etc.He is very ritualistic and can be hard to read at times,he is electively mute so if distressed in any way he just goes into total shut down where he wont move,speak or make eye contact.The syndrome affects everybody different and i could go on about how he is for hours but basically you really need to know him and build up a trust with him to get on with him.
So as you see things are slightly better but not exactly what they should be but tomorrows another day so i shall see what it brings.

WideWebWitch · 11/06/2002 15:18

Loobie, you may already have gone down this route, but thought I'd ask: have you tried Lovas (? spelling) or other alternative techniques? Has your ds got a 1:1 helper at pre-school or school? Could you get one? Just wondered, sorry if you've already looked into all this.

Loobie · 12/06/2002 13:00

we are fighting the school at athe moment to get a 1:1 assistant but they say they can't give him that even though he has had almost no education as far as i can see since he started(he just started in august 01)i think the lovas technique is for full autism not aspergers which is a form of autism,i havent really heard of other techniques that we could try him with as he was just diagnosed in jan 02 so we are still wandering around wondering what should we be doing with him for the best but as with so many things it's like "well who exactly can we speak to about it" i have no h.v or social worker and wonder should i have either but dont even know where to go to find that out let alone anything about what we should do with ds.there are many days when i really could scream when i think well should he be doing this,is this naughty or part of his disorder,everything i do know about it i got from search engines on the net.

LKM · 12/06/2002 15:14

Loobie

I'm sure others will post with more info but did you see this in The Sunday Times? (sorry its rather long)

The prevalence of autistic disorder appears to be about 5 to 10 per 10,000 children, although better diagnostic techniques are pushing the figures up.
Asperger?s syndrome, a related condition, is thought to affect 26-36 per 10,000 children. Children with Asperger?s tend to do better academically than other autistics and often sit A-levels and go on to university.
60% of children with typical autism will grow up to be dependent on adults in all aspects of life. About 10% will grow up to lead ?normal? lives.
Parents usually become aware that something is not quite right when their child is aged between two and three. In the worst cases there is a complete lack of speech. Children seem unable to relate to other people; they are undemanding and passive, have difficulty in making eye contact and can be limited in their play.

The National Autistic Society provides a helpline for parents, 0870 600 8585, and a specialist education advice line 0800 358 8667. The Parents? Autism Campaign for Education (Pace) 020 7226 5525

A school set up by Nick Hornby and his former wife is blazing a trail for autistic children

Early last week eight-year old Danny went up to another little boy and gave him a hug. An everyday occurence in playgrounds around the country, you might think, but in this case it was anything but ordinary. Danny, son of the novelist Nick Hornby and Virginia Bovell, is autistic, like 76,000 other children in this country, which means he has enormous difficulty relating to others.

Autism is a mental disability in which the person?s capacity to make sense of the world is damaged. Although people with autism can see and hear, they find it hard to process what their senses are telling them. Autistic children, whose symptoms include temper tantrums, head banging, feet tapping and teeth grinding, are adrift in a world they cannot understand.

It is widely thought that such children, because of these difficulties, cannot form real friendships. But there Danny was, hugging his friend. For Bovell it was a ?magical moment?.

?I want him to continue making friends like that; with autistic children but also with those who are not,? she says.

With her former husband Hornby, Bovell helped set up Treehouse, a pioneering school for autistic children in north London. Open for four years, it has just been shortlisted for the Charity Awards 2002. A private school that independently raises money, though it also receives government funding, Treehouse uses a technique called applied behavioural analysis, which means children are monitored by the hour to see how they are progressing with a task.

Their tasks are broken down into simple steps and children are lavishly praised and rewarded every time they complete one. The intense monitoring ensures that if one technique isn't working, another can be swiftly substituted.

Experts are unanimous that early intervention by dedicated, specialist teachers can greatly help autistic children. But few state schools have the money or staff to teach children as young as three in the way that Treehouse can. And few, if any, state schools have the resources to provide the intensive one-to-one attention that pupils at Treehouse receive.

There are only 3,000 places in specialist schools or units ? including those in private schools such as Treehouse ? for the 76,000 autistic children in the educational system. Yet about 26,000 autistic children are thought unable to cope with mainstream schools, where many of them end up.

Following last month?s publication of a survey suggesting that as many as one in 86 children show symptoms of autism, there are signs that the disability is finally beginning to receive both more attention and more funding.

Ten days ago Bovell was at the Rosemary special school, a state school in Islington, north London, where Danny was a pupil before Treehouse was set up. Rosemary is to be merged into a new £13m state-of-the-art school that will specialise in autism. Bovell has agreed to join the advisory board overseeing the development of the new school and is delighted at the fact that it is being funded.

And not only the government is prepared to cough up cash. A donation from an anonymous benefactor has made possible the creation of a new chair at Oxford University. In October Dr Anthony Bailey, consultant child psychiatrist at the Maudsley hospital, will take up his professorial post with a clear brief. ?My task is to identify the causes of autism and then find a cure,? he says.

Bailey is convinced that within two years scientists will have identified one of the three or four genes linked to autism. He is at pains to point out that identifying the gene or genes is not a cure and that for some time autism is going to remain incurable, but he is optimistic about the future. In the meantime the key to treatment is early diagnosis and education.

?We know now that education is crucial. We can do a great deal to help children with very structured programmes and lots of one-to-one help,? says Bailey.

The Mental Health Foundation has calculated that the annual cost of autistic disorder in the United Kingdom is at least £1 billion. An autistic child who receives good teaching can be more easily integrated into society, thus reducing the cost of providing support in adulthood. But at present only 7% of the money spent on autism goes into education. The rest is largely spent on caring for adult autistics.

While 60% of children with typical autism currently grow up to be dependent on adults in all aspects of life, about 10% grow up to lead ?normal? lives.The importance of the £13m new school is that, for the first time in the public sector, different agencies will work together in a co-ordinated way.

Many parents, having received a medical diagnosis for their child, thereafter find that the doctors do not liaise with schools or the social services staff who can offer their child help. Rosemary?s head teacher Jim Wolger, by contrast, is in constant touch with both health professionals and social workers. Wolger is convinced it is the beginning of a new approach that will spread across the country.

Later this year a Department for Education and Skills working party, asked by the government to examine the level of autism provision, will produce a ?good practice? guide. The working party is made up of academics, health professionals and educationists as well as DfES officials and it includes Bovell, who represents Pace, the Parents? Autism Campaign for Education. She is optimistic that the report will endorse the approach she has been campaigning for ? early intervention to help children diagnosed as autistic by dedicated, specialist teachers. Crucially, she hopes that more money will be made available to enable that to become a reality for thousands more children.

?It sounds morbid but the question I, and the parent of every autistic child, asks is ?what will happen when I die?? ?Will anyone else be able to understand and love my child?? We are battling to get the provision that will make it much easier later on for Danny and all those like him to lead fulfilling lives. And it looks as if we are getting somewhere.?

Loobie · 13/06/2002 12:33

i didn't see the article but thank you for taking the time to copy it for me,it makes for interesting reading and also reasurance that autistic kids can go on to have a 'normal' life.Its good to see that officials are beginning to realise it's a real problem now i just have to make dp realise it.

Loobie · 13/06/2002 12:34

i didn't see the article but thank you for taking the time to copy it for me,it makes for interesting reading and also reasurance that autistic kids can go on to have a 'normal' life.Its good to see that officials are beginning to realise it's a real problem now i just have to make dp realise it.

Loobie · 13/06/2002 12:36

I've also developed a stutter as you may notice
salalex i'm not in fife but not far away i'm in Livingston which im sure you will have heard of.where about in Fife are you,my sisiter in law lives in Kelty

salalex · 26/06/2002 22:01

Loobie, Do you post under another name as well? I look for you elsewhere, but you're not. Of course, if you do, what it is is your secret! i don't l;ive in Fife, I live near Dundee. Never heard of Kelty until I drove through it last week! Thought about you and hope you are OK what with ds and being pregnant and dp etc. haven't been on for a while as mega busy in work and off on hols this weekend.
It must be very difficult for you with so much going on. My dh still wants us to get back together properly and I am so bloody depressed about it. He's away for 2 nights this week and it's just so nice to have the place to myself (with children of course) and just be myself. Going to stay with his family after the hols so God knows what that'll be like as he has told them some of our problems. Anyway, don't want to ramble but I do think about you, especially as you are not that far away. Hope you have had some luck in getting the right care/schooling for your ds. keep posting. Take care. Salalex xx

salalex · 28/06/2002 22:07

Loobie, i had a thought yesterday about your ds. At my dd's school they have an autistic base. I know it's not near you, but would it be of any use to you if I asked them about the sort of places youcould get help/advice about the sort of education/ care your son should be getting? Or told you where it was so you could ring? They might just say something you haven't thought of. I know he's not Autistic, but has a different form of it but they might still be able to offer advice. just a thought, hope you don't think I'm presumptious in suggesting it, as I'm sure you are doing all you can for him. On hols for 2 weeks now but let me know. Take care. Sxx

Loobie · 30/06/2002 10:22

we have a unit close to us but it only has 18 places so they are like gold dust,i also go to a support group for sen kids and actually seem to be getting somewhere with getting help for him through an advocacy group for sen kids nad adults so hopefully things are looking up on the ds front,hope you enjoy your holiday as im sure you really need it!!

LWK · 27/07/2002 19:22

Hi, I am very upset and scared. Few days ago, I met my husband in international phone shop. When I asked him why he used the shop (not our home phone) he said because it's cheaper. then I asked who he phoned. He answered, friend. I old him that he never told me that he has friends abroad. He said I've got many friends. I asked where this friend was. He said in France. I knew he was lying because on the monitor displayed the room he used was for Italy.

Came out from shop, I asked him whether this friend a woman. He nodded. I asked whether this woman is his girlfriend. He said no and added they (my husband and few friends) used to share house with this woman in the country.

Because I was upset I went home first and about half an hour later he arrived. He said we needed to talk. I asked him whether he was two-timing me. He said no. And then he said that it is very difficult for him to tell me about what he was going to say. What are you ging to say, I asked. He said "I do not love anybody, I don't even love you anymore".

Oh I felt (still) my world ends. I asked him why he suddenly changed. Two days ago he still told his friends in front of me that he loved me very much. Told them about our future plans. Then he said for a while now that we hadn't made love like we used to. We had sex but made love, he said. There is no passion anymore, he said. I said to him that he never told me this. If you felt like that before you shoud have told me and taught me through like he did in our early marriage life. (I was virgin until my wedding night and he taught me how to make love).

I was (until now) in shocked. Since then he doesn't want me to touch him. He even decides to sleep saparately from me. He talked about moving out because this flat to small from two people living together who were not a couple, he said.

I asked him to give us a chance and start all over again. He said the problem was he did not love me anymore. I begged him to try to love me again and start fresh. He said he can't see it will work out. I said to him if he didn't try how he would know that. He said he doesn't want to.

I told him I had done nothing wrong. He said he knew. And then I said why he suddenly changed. He said he didn't know.

Since then he treated my like his enemy. When I helped him unload his stuff coming back from work (I always did this), he said leave his stuff alone. When I asked him what for dinner or anything, he answered I didn't want anything from you. You do what you want to do I do mine, he said.

My world seems to end. I love him very much and I do not want to loose him. I can't live without him.

Two days now he hasn't come home. I really miss him. when I phone his mobile, he just ignored me.

For information: My husband is 50 years old and I am 35 years. We have been married for nearly 9 years. He brought me to this country (UK) to live with him. Few months after we got married, I couldn't come to this country because I was about to finish my job contract so he had to come to London my himself. And then he went back to my country (Indonesia) to collect me and brought me to live with him in UK. I was prepared to live anywhere as long as I am with him. None of could bear living separate, that's why he rushed to collect me as soon as my job contract finished.

Can anybody help me to gain his love again. I don't know what has got into his mind. He was usually very caring for me. Please help me and my husband so that our marrige will not fall apart.

sis · 27/07/2002 21:05

LWK, I just wanted to say how sad I feel for you and the situation you find yourself in. Unfortunately, I don't have any advice on how to turn things around but I am sure others wil be able to give some advice.

I know you must be feeling really sad, frustrated and scared right now and I hope that things get better for you. Remember that you always have sympathetic friends here at mumsnet so keep posting and asking for any support that you need. All the best,
sis

Mopsy · 27/07/2002 21:11

Oh LKW poor you, what a devastating thing to have happened. I cannot begin to imagine how upset and confused you must be feeling about this.

I feel your husband has treated you very badly. I also think that although he has done it in a cruel and callous way, he has told you the truth about how he sees your relationship now. You must ask him to sit down with you and talk properly about what he wants to happen and why he feels this way. Although it hurts so much, if he refuses to try to make it better you must accept that - don't try to persuade him to stay with you, keep your dignity and be strong.

I think you need to ask advice about your situation from a solicitor; most will give you half an hour free advice, or go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau for help (find it in the phone book). They will be able to help you make sure you get a fair settlement if you divorce, arrangements for maintenance and custody of your children. I assume that because of your marriage you are now a British citizen and can stay in this country but you should check this.

Do you have many friends who can help you and support you emotionally? What you are going through must be so frightening and awful. If you are feeling alone please go to your doctor and tell him or her what is happening, they can find a counsellor for you to talk to (free on the NHS).

Talk to us as much as you need to, we will try to help as much as we can.

Thinking of you, Mopsy x

Bozza · 27/07/2002 21:13

LWK I too am struggling for advice but just to let you know I am thinking about you. Have you many friends in this country that you could talk to? What about your children?

All I can think of is that at some point you need a decent explanation of what is going on from your husband. Also if the worst does happen and you end up split up make sure you stay in the house.

Keep posting!

ionesmum · 27/07/2002 22:41

LWK, I feel so sorry for you. What a cruel way for your husband to behave. Mopsy's advice is brilliant. You have many friends here on mumsnet, keep posting, we're here for you.

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