Help! Separation iminent.

[amelia]

Dear All, I wonder if you could help me. My husband and I have been going to relate counselling since October. We've had a dismal time for the last 3/4 years, particularly since we moved up north and baby no.2 was born nearly 4 years ago. I have tried to talk to him on numerous occasions during this time about our situation and in August last year, said I wanted to leave. After the initial argument, he said nothing to me about this, even during our 2 week holiday away when we had evenings to ourselves. I said it again in October and he asked me to go to counselling which I agreed to do. I don't feel any different about him tho'. I don't love him. i feel that I have tried to explain how i felt and he has not understood (or I haven't explained it properly?) Last night, I said I still wanted to leave as I don't want to carry on in a loveless (on my part - he says he still loves me)relationship where I feel uncomfortable with him and unable to rekindle the fires. The reason i am writing is that he has asked that I try and think of something, anything, that he/we can do to try again, as he does not believe that we have tried had enough to solve our problems. I have no idea. we are way past the try and spend more time together/have romantic meals together stuff. I'm lost. I have no idea what to say to him. i feel I have tried my hardest and that sometimes, although it's painful, it is best to let things go and move on, and I do not see us being together anymore. has anyone had a similar experience or could you offer any ideas. I know the above falls far short of a complete description of our marital breakdown but I'd be more than grateful for any comments. And he says it tears him apart that we won't be able to provide a family for our girls, which of course upsets me too and makes me feel that I've let them down.

He did actually mention on Monday that he thinks it would be better for me if he did move out. On Monday night, I was very upset and that just destroyed me even more but now I am feeling a lot better.

He needs to be at my house on a Wednesday and Thursday as I work those days and cannot drop the eldest two off at Breakfast Club at School as it would mean I would be late for work. If it was a one-off, it wouldn't be a problem but I couldn't do it twice a week every week. I did mention this to him, and he said that even if he moved out he would still want to come round for dinner as he could not afford to eat out everynight and couldn't afford to buy a cooker, etc. straight away. He also said he would want to see the kids every night (although the two youngest are in bed by 7:30) and at weekends. This is just so difficult to try and work out.

Bumblelion, been following your sad news for ages now...big hugs etc..
With all the dropping off kids, seeing them in the evenings etc there's a lot of 'he wants' - what do you want to happen if he's no longer in the house? I've no direct experience of this kind of break-up, nor any evidence that a 'clean' break works better for the kids (which is so obviously your main concern from your postings) but I'd imagine if someone who'd moved out kept popping up that frequently it might be confusing for the kids (& you!)...just a thought ..obviously don't want to add to your problems or confuse the situation even more.

Bumbelion,

I split up with my partner a year ago and we tried what it sounds like you're contemplating for 6 months or so. Dh would stay in the spare room during the week and would often disappear at weekends. This was great for my ds, who's 2, and handy for dh, but I hated it. Partly because I didn't really want him around, but mainly because I found I still depended on him and wasn't getting my life together without him - ie buidlign up other support networks. Things have actually been much easier since he moved out properly. Now I know exactly when he's going to be here (usually a whole Saturday) and I have less time on my own because I can line up help from friends and family when he's not. I feel much more confident because I KNOW I can manage without him.

In fact I'm moving out of London to get away from him still further. I don't want to be financially dependent on him so am moving to where I can afford to buy a house on my own, and will be going back to work full time.

I put no obstacles between him and ds - ds loves his dad and doesn't seem to mind that he's a complete ae! But I neede to make my boundaries clear and to draw a line under my relationship with dh.

I can only say that so far none of this has been as bad as I thought it would be, and I can feel my confidence coming back more and more as I manage things on my own - getting a job, looking for a house etc. You can really lose faith in your ability to do anything when you're in a destructive relationship.

Hope this helps. Not so easy with more than one child I'm sure.

Bumblelion,
Sounds to me as if he wants to break himself in gently to being single. IMHO it's about time he pulled his socks up and stopped messing you about.

However, him still being around in some way is probably good for the kids - at the end of the day he is their dad, and for them to lose touch with him probably isn't for the best.

I think you need to put your foot down, and set the rules yourself. If he wants to come to dinner etc then fine, but you draw up a timetable and he sticks to it - no dropping round unexpectedly and inconveniencing/upsetting you. If he's really serious about commitment to his kids he'll stick by it. That way all of you know what to expect when, the kids included. And you can be mentally prepared for it.

Also, don't forget to write some evenings/days out into this -let him look after the kids while you take time off (I know you've said previously that he does't take the kids out anywhere, but if he wants to be a good father then he'll have to find something he does like doing with them). If you're having to live like a single parent you need some time to look after yourself.

Put your foot down (calm but firm!) and tell him you've made some decisions and this is how it's going to be. He's messing you about, and you're worth more than this.

Tried to post a message earlier and my machine shut down on me! Everything shut down - word, excel, etc. Not had a chance to get back on here today as very busy - hope to read all your comments soon and get back to you.

Bumblelion are you ok ? Haven't heard from you for a while.

Bumblelion are you ok ? Haven't heard from you for a while.

Hello, I'm new to Mumsnet Talk and I can't tell you what a relieve it is to read about other people who are going through a similar situation to my own. My partner decided 3 months ago that he missed the single life and that he wanted out of our relationship. He is 40 years old in January (is that significant?) We have a 22 month old son who he says he adores, but already the cracks are beginning to show - doesn't come along to hospital appts (problems with ears), doesn't ring to find out how the appointments went, comes up with reasons why he can't pick him up until later than planned or needs to give him back earlier than planned. Things got so bad I rented a flat locally, we take it in turns to stay at the flat so that our son can remain in familiar surroundings. Arguing with me about a legal agreement I have got drafted up covering things like access, maintenance and parental responsibility. Earns a fortune, but doesn't want to pay any more than he pays his cleaner towards the upkeep of our son. I have felt totally devastated and am still trying to get my act together. I contacted Gingerbread to see if there was a support system I could plug into, but had no joy. All my friends are still in happy couples, most of them are having baby number 2. They are embarrassed for me and so we don't talk about the situation. Luckily I do have a sister that I spill my guts to and I'm also seeing a counsellor which is really helping. It's the sense of guilt, the sense of not being able to provide a stable loving home for my son. It has definitely affected him, even at his tender age. He is very clingy with me and has needed lots of love and reassurance from me and at his day care nursery. I hate leaving him with his father because I miss him so much, but the rest does do me good. Each time I go back to the house his Dad has bought him some other useless gift. He never talks about the situation, he doesn't ask how I am, how his son is. If I ask any questions he acts as though everything he does is top secret. Thankfully I didn't sell my own house when we got together, so I will be able to move back in later on in the summer - I cannot wait to be back in my own surroundings. I feel that life will then settle down more and I can put this whole sorry saga behind me. The worst thing is that because I want my son to know his father, I have to do my best to maintain contact with someone that I would prefer never to set eyes on again. I'm sure he's knows this and so he is being amazingly horrible and cruel. I will never understand men:- he wanted the relationship to end, he has got his own way, why does he have to continue being horrible?

LTA, lots of sympathy. I too had a hard time when I left my husband (other way round to you, I know) but he didn't want to talk to me or our son for ages and it was hard being a single parent.

Could you meet other mums through a mother and baby group? It did help IME.

There is also an "any advice on becoming a single parent" thread somewhere here on mumsnet and I'm sure there's lots more useful advice there. All you can do is carry on being nice in the face of his bad behaviour and hope that this improves at some point. It did for me. Lots of sympathy, it sounds awful.

LTA, play him at his own game. Ignore him, be unavailable for him. Put your chin up and try to make the best of a very difficult situation. Show him there is life after him and that you can cope and you are in control. Summer is coming, try to organise a break away for you and your son.

If his life is so top secret, make sure yours is too. Don't get emotional, try to distance yourself from him.

It sounds like he is 'in charge' put him in his place and show him he's not. You might still be hurting underneath but try not to show it.

Good luck, hope this is useful. R

Dear LTA, so sorry to hear of your situation. Have you thought of contacting the CSA re child support? They can usually give you an estimated figure over the phone to see if it would be more than he is currently willing to pay and you can use that as the basis for your negotiation over money. I think the current formula (or at least one that's coming in very shortly) is 15% of pre-tax income per child, but you'd need to check with them. Good luck to you and your little boy.

Dear LTA, so sorry to hear of your situation. Have you thought of contacting the CSA re child support? They can usually give you an estimated figure over the phone to see if it would be more than he is currently willing to pay and you can use that as the basis for your negotiation over money. I think the current formula (or at least one that's coming in very shortly) is 15% of pre-tax income per child, but you'd need to check with them. Good luck to you and your little boy.

Thank you for your words of support - it's so very reassuring. I have been in touch with the CSA, found them really helpful, they gave me a rough idea of figures over the phone. My ex is not keen to get them involved (I wonder why!!) We have had discussions about money, never an easy subject, but I think we have reached a sort of truce which is definite progress. I would love to meet other single mum's, it's just how to go about it that's difficult. I work fulltime, so there isn't lots of spare time. Went to see About A Boy on Saturday - made me laugh and cry if you know what I mean. The mum's that belonged to SPAT (Single Parents Alone Together - for those of you who haven't seen the film) were more than a little stereotypical, but if anyone knows of single parent groups or you can offer advice on where to look for them, I would appreciate you sharing the info.

The NCT usually run toddler groups - there's one near me on Saturdays - and it's usually only mums so you don't feel it's all couples. I'm not a single parent, but most of the women I have met via NCT etc I see on their own not with partners and some are single parents - it's all the same to us! There's also a specific single parent organisation called Gingerbread (in the phone book?) but don't know anything about it - hope it's not too much like SPAT!

LTA, I would agree with Rhiannon, why not make his life a little more difficult? Why not say you are going out on Saturday night and so need him to babysit, rather than fitting in with his selfish agenda. Even if you just go over to your sisters or veg, he doesn't need to know (and don't tell him what you are up to). It may make him think that he can't just have things all his own way.
I so sympathise with your situation and think you are being remarkably resilient. I think you are also showing great strength in character by not using your son as a way to get back at him, it must be so hard when your ex is not treating you with anywhere near as much selflessness. I do hope things get better.

LTA, my best friend's husband left her about 3 years ago when their two little girls were about 6 and 2. To make matters worse for her, he moved in with a woman that had been a friend of hers, and he has since married her. He has been cruel to my friend ever since he left, he pushed their divorce through as quickly as possible and has continued to say nasty things to her since the day he left. She was devastated as there was no hint that he was unhappy before he left, it all happened very suddenly and she was extremely committed to him. We cannot work out why he has been so cruel to her since HE was the one who left a wife and 2 kids behind - I think a lot of it is probably guilt and not wanting to face up to what he has done. In my friend's case, her dh probably thought he was in a position of "power" over her because she wanted him back, so he used it against her. Pretty awful but maybe that's what some men get like. I agree with Janus, try to play it cool with him, don't tell him anything and pretend that the situation is not bothering you. He will probably wonder what's happening and you might see a change in his attitude. Good luck with everything.

Agree that's it's probably guilt that's making him behave badly. There's nothing worse or more enraging than knowing that you are definitely in the wrong and behaving terribly and the other person is the good guy - it makes a lot of people resentful as they think the other person is 'making' them feel bad, so they then justify their own attacks. Mad, isn't it? My dh's ex partner has been vile to us, even though she left him and ran off with a millionaire five years before I even met him. I was completely baffled as to why she was so nasty (mad, screechy phone calls, threatening solicitor's letters, the lot) until I worked out that she resented him for 'making' her feel like a bad person, when in fact, she IS a bad person. Tee hee. God, hope she doesn't subscribe to mumsnet, we'll probably get more bloody solicitor's letters. Have changed name for this post as other one might be a clue to identity...

I am still in the same situation and nothing has changed. I have been to see a solicitor to see where I stand but I am scared of taking the next step in getting him to move out. Even though we are not together, I hate the thought of being on my own every night and every weekend - sad, aren't I?

He admitted he is "dating" Tracie from work and wonders why I get upset.

To be honest, I have been frightened of my anger twice in the last fortnight.

The first time he was sitting on MY bed talking to me about our situation. I was due to book a holiday with two of my friends (and our children) and I said I wasn't that bothered about going. Normally I love my holidays but I feel so "down" that I really couldn't face it. He told me that the two eldest were looking forward to it and I should still go. Anyway, the conversation progressed and I told him that he could obviously have a holiday with the kids if he wanted to but I didn't want Tracie going with him (for obvious reason). He said that I had no say in the situation. I just "lost it" and started shouting/screaming, telling him to f*ck off (excuse the language) out of the MY house and started kicking him off the bed. I think I frightened him by my actions but I felt so angry I couldn't help myself.

Again, Friday night he got me so upset and angry I actually chucked the phone at the kitchen cabinets where it fell apart. He did put it back together again but the buzzer doesn't work on the hands-free set any more.

Oh well!

Good for you girl, get angry!! You should be bloody angry, he's behaving disgracefully. I don't know how he;'s got the nerve to come home to your house every night when he's seeing this woman. i know you don't feel like the holiday - I don't feel like doing anything except going to bed with a bottle of wine and 40 fags - but if you were to get away from the house for even a week it would surely give you a well needed break and time to think without the pressure of him being around all the time. And the anger is just part of getting over all the Sh**e I'm sure. you WILL feel better as time goes by, I'm positive about that. It'll be hard to be on your own too for a while. Wickedwaterwitch wrote something good on that in the thread about being a single parent. We're here to support you too.Good luck

Amelia, I do feel bloody angry at times. About a fortnight ago, he went out on a Saturday night with Tracie. He thinks because he is being honest with me about where he is going and who with, I should be able to just accept it - after all, he is not lying to me.

Anyway, this particulary night I had my friend's two children staying at my house (with my 3) so I had 5 children in the house. He had gone out with Tracie, me and the kids did whatever and then we all went to bed. He woke me up when he came in and it was 5:20 am! I started shouting at him asking what time did he call this and I thought he was taking the p*ss. I explained, not because he had been out until 5:20 am, but because I was in the house on my own with 5 children with the front door unbolted, unchained, etc. I do feel secure in my own house but it didn't make me feel very secure knowing I had gone to bed at 11 pm and for 6.5 hours my house was not as secure as it should have been.

Again, he thinks I was being unreasonble.

Oh, isn't he being honourable, letting you know he's out with someone else. Has he said anything more about plans to move out? Do you still feel you want things to work out with him, or have you changed your mind with all this bad behaviour from him. Would you have him back if he offered?

Bumblelion, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Is their any chance that you could get him to move out? Sounds to me that it would help you to move on if he wasn't under the same roof. Then the healing process could begin.

bolt and chain next time, bumblelion! hope you get some resolution to all this soon

Bumblelion, what a horrible way to live, what a s**t he's being. Now, are you maybe not insisting he leave because you are secretly hoping that if you ride all this he may come to his senses and go back with you? I guess this may happen but I also think if you do insist he leave he can then get a real idea of what the rest of his life is to be, ie controlled access to his children rather than whenever he feels. This may shock him into thinking what he is really doing. Of course, it may also make him realise that he can be separated and be OK but maybe you be happier that you instigated this decision than him, feel a bit more in control?? He is a constant reminder of your pain at the moment and maybe it would be better if he did move out, for you, and maybe you can start to see things with a clearer head, maybe it won't be as bad as you think. I do so feel for you, I just hope things get a bit better, soon.