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Original poster

So I've finally got the pension valuations and he's crying on the phone

215 replies

KirstyWirsty · 16/12/2012 18:28

Discovered STBXH's affair last new year .. Put him out and contacted a lawyer .. Got my own pension valuations by April .. Finally got his through last week

Our house was sold in August and DD and I have been living with my mum in a tiny house for the last 4 months .. I am desperate to get my own place

So the finances are being split 50/50 and he has £16k that he owes me off of his half of the house equity as his pension is worth much more than mine. And he was crying on the phone saying that if he fives me the £16k it will mean he won't be able to buy a house in as good an area for our DD7.. My mum thinks it is just emotional blackmail

He said that I earn more than him but he has more potential for promotion and is 4 years younger and so could take a mortgage over a longer period

Any views on this? He always makes me feel as though I am being unreasonable

OP posts:
tass1960 · 04/01/2013 16:13

What you need to realise is that solicitors will always argue for the best possible settlement for their client, regardless of rights and wrongs. I work for a family law team in Glasgow so I know this first hand.

So, he is saying his solicitor says 60/40 split won't happen - she will do her best to make sure that doesn't. Your solicitor on the other hand should be doing her utmost to make sure it does (if that was what you wanted). Ultimately a Sheriff would make the decision based on all the financial information provided (which would all need to be vouched) - it is quite difficult to hide financial information in these cases. Or to avoid ending up in court you should have a Minute of Agreement signed by you both agreeing exact figures. There really should be a MOA in this case. Both solicitors would have had vouching of financial info to enable this to be prepared.

I think you would be wise to think about changing solicitors even at this late stage or insist your current one gets her finger out)

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 04/01/2013 16:26

Thanks Tass I work in Glasgow and I am not happy with my solicitor at all .. especially after the pension fiasco (she said my pension from the same company as I am in now but in a different period of employment pre-marriage should be included as a marital asset and yet only his pension from the period of the marriage is included??? Surely not!)

I thought it would be too late at this stage in the game to change?

OP posts:
Lueji · 04/01/2013 16:27

Regardless, he wants to give you less than 50:50, which is definitely not on.
He should accept what has been agreed on or risk getting worse for him.

tass1960 · 04/01/2013 17:29

Am not a solicitor but do know that pre marriage assets are not taken into account (your pension valuation should be from date of marriage to date of separation) value before marriage and after separation are irrelevant) - am not sure where you are in terms of agreement - is it simply between you and exh or are the solicitors involved in it? I really wouldn't agree something so important without a legally binding Minute of Agreement in place - if you not happy with solicitor (and she does seem less than competent) I would think about changing or is there someone with more experience with the firm you are with.

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 04/01/2013 20:24

She is a partner!!!

OP posts:
Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 04/01/2013 20:31

tass solicitors have been involved .. I met mine a year ago she has given me no advice , has drawn up a basic separation agreement to cover the house sale and has requested SERPS pension valuation .. Bill so far nearly £2k .. Now all pension valuations are in she has sent a letter proposing the 50/50 split of Assets which stbxh is contesting

OP posts:
ArbitraryUsername · 04/01/2013 23:34

You're probably using the same utterly useless firm that handled my mother's divorce. They ended up costing her tens of thousands of pounds (possibly more than that) because of their ineptitude.

Like seriously bad: e.g. losing records of the correspondence where my dad agreed to let my mum have the house because he got the business, which was at the time worth far more but he decided to run it into the ground and go bust just to spite her (he's an abusive twat, as I'm sure you'll have gathered). Failing to get their paperwork in on time so court dates had to be postponed, at my mother's expense. And so on...

Either that or there are more really crappy family law solicitors in Glasgow than you'd hope.

And he is being a total arsehole. Don't give in to him.

tass1960 · 05/01/2013 14:07

Just because she is a partner doesn't make her competent - but can see how you cant really go to her senior - there may however be someone else in the firm you could deal with - problem is a lot of firms have really small family law units and so might not have anyone else with that expertise. You could change but if you are close to a settlement might not be worth it. Incidentally do you know what sheriff court would be involved if that's where it ends up?

I don't see how he can reasonably contest a 50/50 split - if I were you I would leave it to solicitors and don't speak to him about the financial aspects ... I suspect he knows this though and is just chancing his arm Hmm

Agree re crappy lawyers and probably best to go on recommendations of people who have used them before (successfully).

zaz123456 · 05/01/2013 16:37

Could someone please help and advise me.

I divorced around two and a half years ago. We agreed a 50/50 split from house, savings etc financially. I have a new house and he ended up buying me out of the family home.

Anyway to cut a long story short, I thought he was a good father and agreed whilst we were divorcing that he can have three days access to the kids, he suggested the weekends I agreed. This is an agreement we made and not a court order. There was a few months where I had to move in with my sister because he would not allow me to stay when I had been given my financial settlement. As I could not get my children to school etc they stayed with him he then applied for child benefit which I was fair and thought he does have the children more than me. I have moved into my new home an applied for child benefit for both children and have been denied. I only get child benefit for one child. My ex does not pay any maintenance but does pay for after school clubs and a few other things such as clothes they wear when they are with him. My daughter started private school in sept 2012, and my ex promised he wouls contribute towards the fees. I have asked him for the money now for around six m onths he refuses saying he has paid for school uniforms and shoes and feels he has paid more than enough. I have tried to get CSA involved they tell me that because he is in receipt of child benefit for one child he can claim maintenance from me for the other child. I am seriously thinking about regaining full custody for both children as the situation is not working, kids living in two homes when one parent is a tight ass is hard work, not to mention the mix ups with missing uniforms, forgotten books at dads etc. Can anyone advise please as Im at my wits end!!!

maras2 · 05/01/2013 16:48

zaz.Might be best if you start your own thread.This one of Kirsty's long running and needs to flow freely.All the best Mx.

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 05/01/2013 18:56

mara thanks

tass my lawyer is a friend of a friend who is a corporate solicitor . Yes I should have gone with someone who had been recommended by someone who had been through the process but it seemed like a good idea at the time!!

OP posts:
tass1960 · 05/01/2013 20:57

What size is the firm - is it in the city centre ?

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 06/01/2013 09:34

tass I PM'd you

OP posts:
Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 08/01/2013 11:11

Well just happened to check my bank statement and he hasn't paid his maintenance this month ...

Does it get any easier???

OP posts:
perfectstorm · 09/01/2013 01:08

Good solicitor. Yesterday, in fact. It's the only way now.

Really sorry, OP. He's an arse.

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 09/01/2013 12:08

My solicitor has come back with why my pension that I had before my marriage is to be included ..
--
Each pension that you have is apportioned pro rata for the period of the marriage whether taken out before the marriage or not. If you only have one there is only one to be apportioned to the period of the marriage. If you have more than one they are both apportioned to the period of the marriage. In my view it is inequitable in situations like your own. It?s not what we like but the courts have decided that that is how the Act is to be interpreted so if the other side know this and insist on it we will have to follow it. No period is taken into account from before the marriage for him or you. The essence is that although you had the pension before you were married you still have it ie through your marriage you have also had it albeit not paid into it They therefore do the same apportionment with only the period of the marriage being counted thus resulting in a lower figure because of the length of time of the pension. The period before the marriage is not counted for any of the apportionments

OP posts:
ProphetOfDoom · 09/01/2013 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 10/01/2013 08:39

I posted on the Legal Matters Board and STIDW said

^The way pensions in Scotland are apportioned on divorce is rather a blunt instrument buts its quite straightforward.

The relevant date for valuing the total pension is usually the date of separation.

This figure is then divided by the total number of years contributions were made to to the pensions fund.

Once you know how much is apportioned to each year you multiply that number by the number of years contributions were made during the marriage.

For example if the total value of the fund is £100k you would divide by the number of years contributions were made, say 20 years. That would give you a figure of £5k which is then multiplied by the number of years contributions were paid during the marriage. If you were married for 20 years but only paid contributions in 10 of those years you would multiply £5k by 10 = £50k apportioned to the marriage.

Your solicitor is quite correct, the way pensions are apportioned is written down in stone^

However I did not make ANY contributions to the previous pension during the marriage so I've PM'd STIDW to get clarification that the pension therefore should NOT be counted as a marital asset

OP posts:
Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 10/01/2013 08:40

Oops - italics failure Hmm

OP posts:
2rebecca · 10/01/2013 11:08

I got divorced in Scotland. My solicitor said that the matrimonially assets had to be split "equitably" which was usually 50:50 although you could try and get something different if exceptional circumstances. Most couples I know did 50:50 like me. My current husband got 60:40 split (in favour of his ex) as she wanted to have the children most of the time.
You only count pension contributions that were accrued during the marriage though. I'm not sure if that just means stuff you have paid in over the marriage term or if a pension that you previously paid into but stopped and which has just been gaining (or falling) in value would count as well. Your solicitor should know this though.
If your husband has to buy a smaller house then he has to buy a smaller house. Most people are worse off financially when they divorce.

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 20/01/2013 09:54

Has anyone got any handy hints to get things moving forward??

Still haven't had a response from stbxh's solicitor .. Even a counter offer!! Letter was sent a month ago .. My solicitor says there is nothing to move it faster

I am going to have to consider renting .. Can't stay with mum for months more!

OP posts:
ZenNudist · 20/01/2013 10:41

Kirstywirsty I feel for you this kind of thing makes me Angry

My work involves dealing with solicitors and both parties in a divorce. The H's sol always delays the process.

If I were you I'd look at rentals and discuss with your sol about taking the court route. As long as your dh delays it's costing you money and inconvenience so you need to start looking at a 60-40 split if you do go to court. Or would you still accept 50-50? That would be very generous of you & he doesn't deserve it. I'd be asking sol if the fact that you earn more will go against you or not. On one hand you have contributed more to the marital pot, but conversely could the courts see you as being better able to support yourself in future.

Also that advice you cut & paste from your sol seemed on the nose & you ate dealing with her delays by staying on top of her and asking for prompt response so it's not as if she's a bad choice to continue with. If you are genuinely concerned that she won't get you what you need then you could always consult free of charge (?) with another sol to talk about if they could help you better. My gut feel us that changing sol at this time could look bad to the courts as it might look as if you're shopping around for sol to tell you what you want to hear. But don't hold me that. I'm not 100% sure that's how it works!

Lueji · 20/01/2013 11:03

Set a deadline and then go to court?

I think that the H's solicitor should push to count those older pensions as assets, not yours.
Maybe do the calculations, but leave it to see if they want to include them?

Springdiva · 20/01/2013 11:12

I would say sticking it out with DM for a bit longer is well worth it if you have a better settlement/ maintenance payments / pension for decades to come.

Original poster
KirstyWirsty · 20/01/2013 16:59

Lueji I didn't make any contributions to the older pension during the marriage so why is it a marital asset? I was actually married to someone else when I paid into it!

DD and I have been in my single bedroom every night this weekend watching DVDs on the laptop.. Definitely time to move out of mum's

I am so sick to the back teeth of the whole thing

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