Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Keep records, specifics, see if you can make a reasonable plan for contact. The courts and mediation quite like the status quo if it looks like it's working,.

Nini, I agree with you about the early days being full of little 'tests'. I can only see that now though.

Leclerc - how're you feeling now? Sorry last night was upsetting. The first things like this always are, i think. Hope you're doing ok.

Re the solicitor question: I am lucky enough to be getting legal aid. However, that means that I wont be able to file using unreasonable behaviour, as I'd have to pay for that myself, so will be waiting till I've been moved out for 12 months (it's been 7 already, can't believe it) and can then file.
When I separated from DS1's dad, we weren't married but had to go through selling a house and mediation then court for him to demand more access (which wasn't granted). It cost me a couple of thousand in solicitor and mediation fees. That stung. But I agree, if divorce cost that much, I simply could do it.

I'm having a bit of a mare of a few days too, more with DS2 being ill than anything. Last night he didn't settle till nearly midnight, my back is aching from pacing the floor with him and jiggling him about while he screamed and howled himself hoarse (struggling all the while). Today, he's just done the same for over an hour when I tried to put him down for a nap. He's just beside himself with tiredness, but screams if you lay him down, then ends up bashing himself off the cot bars and screams even more. But he's going to FW's tomorrow for a while - not the full day, just until early afternoon. While I am a bit worried about how he'll be - he's not been great at settling for anyone but me while he's been ill - I also think I need a break from it all, and maybe it'll do FW good to do some of the not-so-nice stuff for a change.

He's still not emailed me back about what times he's suggesting for Christmas Eve, despite the very snotty (perfect description, Silver) email demanding that I hurry up and decide.

Look! I now have my very own Christmas name!

Is it very sad that I'm excited about that??? don't answer that, I already know...

lol very nice ponygirl its good to get into the christmas spirit despite all this rubbish we are going through! dh has texted me after my email now with finally a plan for contact over the hols, also saying that he will not be 'subject to my rules and regulations' etc. making me out to look like the bad guy now. sigh. so fed up with it all. said they will be subject to change incase he doesn't get his deadlines met. ok so what to i do if im sheduled for work?
guess my mum will be the one to pick up the pieces.

separate mediation sounds like an idea. although i don't think he will actually engage as he can't even send an email. he 'doesn't DO emails'.

Ta v muchly, jangle! I am channelling Christmas like a demon this year in a mad effort to distract myself! I'll be gunning for Easter like a madwoman come January 2nd!

It's unsurprising that your 'D'H responded this way, in fact it could almost have been predicted word-for-word. Thing is, as awkward as this sounds, if your suggestions are reasonable (given his mucking you about) then he's on a hiding to nowt. He can either be subject to your 'rules and regulations' or he can get a solicitor and take it to court (where i don't think he'd get very far with that kind of attitude).

There must be other separated couple who deal with working around shifts. I suspect that if he agrees to the schedule, and then cannot make a particular day, it's up to him to arrange alternative childcare? Not sure though. A solicitor may be able to advise on this? Sounds like you definitely need to speak to one about all this.

Maybe, as with Silver's situation, if he refuses to engage in mediation then your mediator would report that back to the courts and it would need to go from there (and his lack of effort would not be looked upon favourably).

Just to stress that I have no experience with sorting out stuff re kids, only financials

Given the length of the marriage I had to make a case for unequal marital contribution (financial and practical), source of our capital (my DF), and my own mh - having to sell up and move out would have completely done me in, I suspect. Settlement is technically 50/50, but I still 'owe' him money.

Honestly, the entitled gall of the man astonishes me. Just received (eventually) a reply to the request for a rough idea of times for his having DS2 on Christmas Eve:

Flexible for me, surely unless ur away all day he can come up for lunch,plenty notice. if u need times, say 12 until 4. If you're not flexible then let me know now please,rather than drawing it out.

Is it me? Is it? I thought it was fairly reasonable to ask for an idea of times, surely it's not about me not wanting to be flexible, more about me being able to know specific times so I can plan my day. I think that's ok to ask for that courtesy? Or not????
I have simply replied that 12-4pm is fine.
Grrrrr, it's so frustrating. I have been nothing but flexible since the start, I have done all I can to let him see DS2 (and DS1 ), I've been accommodating to the extreme - even down to letting him come to our flat for an hour a couple of weeks ago, despite me not really being comfortable with it, because DS2 had been ill so hadn't managed up for the midweek visit.
He's said he appreciates me doing all this, but it's clear he doesn't, it's all just words. As usual, it's just about him, what he wants, and I'm getting in the way of what he wants so therefore I must be being difficult and a bitch (there can be no other version of events, his version is 'the truth').

So there you go, there's a lesson to you all - be flexible, sure, but not so that you inconvenience yourself or put yourself out. Because you can be sure as biscuits is biscuits (there's no eggs emoticon...) that it will neither be recognised, remembered or returned in kind.

pony others will be along soon to help - my head is just so that i can't see straight right now, but just offering you a hug and sorry youre going through it right now. i think he is just looking for a way to accuse you of not being flexible to cover up his own inadequacies and try to make himself look good and take away from the fact that youve been the flexible one.

ive really really messed things up tonight. seriously. ive realised im actually afraid of him bigtime ... the power he has to upset my emotions over the way he gets on is unreal and ive realised that when i have to talk to him or see him i get so anxious and panicky.

tonight he had told me he couldn't take holly. he seems to have forgot and turned up unannounced. i completely panicked, said i was busy, and that he couldn't come in. (explained that he had told me he wasn't taking her). holy reached out to him. he said well can i come in and hold her. i didn't want him in cos when he comes in, i get so afraid as i can't get him out and of how upset he will make me. i panic when he is in the house. so i said no. i said you can hold her quickly outside (it was raining but the porch is sheltered) but we are busy here so have to get on.

well he said 'f u' over and over, really angry, that he couldnt believe the way i was getting on, then on his way home sent me a voicemail saying i was really sick, a sick person, evil, i was not normal, i need to seriously look at myself, etc etc etc. i am so so upset by it. i replied that there was reasons why i am the way i am.

i feel i have some sort of post trauma going on. everytime i have to talk to him or see him the anxiety just rises and i can't think straight. how can he be expected to understand this?

so i fear i should have let him in and that would have been the reasonable thing to do, and now im going to look really bad. today has been so challenging. i feel ive run a marathon.

Jangle, you've just described how I feel when my ex makes contact. He was off on one yesterday, but tried to call just now after calming down. I'm no longer taking his calls. Just had one asking if the kids and I are ok. Presumably so he can pass himself off as the reasonable one.
I'm seeing the domestic violence team mMon for some support in dealing with him.

Leclerc , that evening does sound dreadful. Your dc are venting at the person they feel safest doing it with though. I bet they'd be too scared to say similar to him?
I hope I have your moment of lucidity Doon. Still scared and an emotional wreck at the moment.

*soon

i feel like i should apologise to dh. he's made me feel so bad.

think you did the right hting not taking his calls matchsticks, you have to think of your own emotional wellbeing too.

Tis its a revelation when you realise how much happier you are without them. sad but a relief in a strange way.

jangle, keep a copy of that voicemail. And do not apologise to him.
You were perfectly reasonable in not wanting him to come into your house. He was entirely unreasonable in then proceeding to verbally abuse you.
If you are scared of him, could you speak to the police on their 101 non-emergency number, and let them hear that voicemail to see what advice they have? He should be speaking to you like that, verbal abuse can be dealt with by the police.

Leclerc - sending you the biggest hug tonight, that all sounds so hard to deal with, especially DD2's response, that must have really been difficult to deal with. As small comfort as this is, she's taking it out on you because she knows you wont lash out back at her, or judge her badly for it. It's a goodthing (I know, bear with me), because she can be herself and let out whatever she's feeling honestly with you. She cannot do that with her dad. But she needs to come to that realisation by herself, and it will take a long time (maybe years).

Is it possible that your friend only knows FW's version of the details, ie the kind of thing he's been telling his parents (ie the version that makes him come off not too bad)?

And I think you are entirely right about his 'shakiness'. My thought here is something similar to I've thought before, about the sacrifices FWs are willing to make in order to regain their ultimate position: perhaps he is willing to make himself all vulnerable looking, if it will make it more likely to get himself back home with you and the kids, at which point (of course) all signs of that softer side will gradually disappear (or, at least, be converted into some more subtle abuse pattern, like with my FW). You're right, he's scared. Power over you all is the only thing he had to define himself. He needs to get that back, and is willing to do whatever it takes, from attending the course, to becoming a pathetic figure. If it gets him his goal, it will all have been worth it.
But of course, he doesn't know that it wont help him one bit. All it does it make him actually pathetic.

Hope you are doing ok this evening. Let the flow!

Don't apologise! I used to do that. Pure manipulation to keep you under the thumb jangle. Don't do it!

Jeepers, Jangle, that should of course say 'he shouldn't be speaking to you like that'.

Eeeeep!

Jangle, you have nothing to apologise for - you did a fantastic job at holding your ground. I was cheering you on as I read through your post! No wonder he reacted so violently: he could see you asserting yourself and his power waning. Time to crank it up a notch or three, he thought... It is horrible that you have to put up with this every time he drops dd off or picks her up - he's no different in those moments from the way you described him when you were still living together, is he? I like that idea of getting the police's perspective. ((hugs))

Leclerc, that all sounds horrible. Having dc's raw emotions hurled at you in quick succession is such a draining experience, but as others have said, it's so necessary for the dcs that they have someone they can bombard like that! Cold any better today? or [hottoddy] depending on your answer.

Oh, and I'm intrigued by this maintaining dignity idea... yes, might be a useful one to employ myself. I can see that telling loads of people the truth about him might backfire in a number of ways, but hadn't really thought about it.

I am looking forward to a time when I can stop the deception. I have written the Collins' Christmas letter; it has a couple of very disingenuous bits to it. One where I drafted "ds is still very cuddly and Mummy likes to take regular advantage of that" and FW changed the "Mummy" to "his parents." Now if we were being strictly truthful, we could go back to my version and add on the end "while Daddy prefers to shout at him most mornings for climbing on him in bed."

Rather like the thought of a brutally honest Christmas letter: "Charlotte decided halfway through the year that some marriages really need to be escaped from... Mr Collins has been his usual self, absenting himself from the daily grind of family life but still expecting all the perks..."

FW is returning from his month-long trip tomorrow. It was so good while it lasted! My taste of freedom... Told the dcs he'll be back tomorrow (they haven't been asking about him). They were completely uninterested.

How you feeling about his imminent return, Charlotte?

I have spent a productive evening sorting through the last of all the bin bags that FW so kindly packed for me. I did have one wobbly moment to see that he'd more or less dumped all of my personal stuff from my bedside drawer in with everything too - jewellery, DS1's first tooth, and perfume, including my wedding perfume. The thought of him going through all my personal stuff doesn't feel good. But overall it was quite enjoyably cathartic. I now have handbags and scarves that I'd forgotten I had, and my wardrobe has doubled in size. In one of the handbags, I found my Mac lipstick and a fiver. And my microwavable lavender slippers! (Mmmmm, wearing them now, they are proper toastie.)
And now I also have an extra three bags of clothes to take to the 'Cash 4 Clothes' shop down the road. So all in all, I'm financially up on the evening.

Now I'm ready for the next batch tomorrow!

Ooh, that does sound fun, pony! I look forward to being surrounded by my stuff and not having all his junk around too...

I'm not sure how I feel. He could be nice for a while, or he could be unbearable straight away. The hardest thing is going to be pretending things are not about to end. The second hardest will be being with his parents who are visiting next week and who know nothing about it all, so they will be treating us as a happy couple . I'm also really nervous that he'll pick up a call from the letting agent or something.

Deception really doesn't suit me! (Second nature to him, funnily enough.) No way I'm telling him anything more before I leave, though. Just not worth it.

I know what you mean, Charlotte, I always felt very nervous and anxious about getting found out. The fact that I felt I was being spied on (by him) didn't help. I went to see a solicitor for a free half-hr about a month before I moved out. That night, lying in bed, he asked me if I'd seen a solicitor. I felt my heart jump into my mouth. But I couldn't lie, I had to say yes. It was a horrible, scary, creepy experience. I later decided he'd been going through the call records in the phone's memory and checking what the numbers were - I'd rung the solicitor to confirm the appointment, stupid, stupid, stupid. The problem is that you will have to be careful he doesn't find out, but the more careful you are, the more deceptive and uncomfortable you will feel. But it will come to an end, it wont go on like that forever.

Will be thinking of you tomorrow. Am off to bed now, since DS2 seems to be sleeping ok for now

Jangle I had that on my doorstep the other night and neighbours were called. Its totally unacceptable, as a result there is no further collection from here. I used to feel the same shaking mess, just if he phoned, or I had to reply to a text. If he cannot respect you he'll have to stay away, and we know he won't charlotte is right, he is feeling your slipping away and is striking to instill more fear to regain lost ground. The night I experienced actually benefitted me! I could finally make him more distant, and less able to bother me (at the time I nearly wet myself with fear) - he says I think its funny?!>!>! go figure FW!

Pony spot on sure as [fbiscuits] is [fbiscuits] there won't be any remembering, recognition or reciprocation, ever. Time for us to stop expecting it I reckon.

For timings friends do flexible, this is about sticking to a routine for the benefit of the child, you are already doing flexible by making a particular arrangement for xmas eve, but need to have times, completely reasonable.

sorry Leclerc just sounds awful for the evening, especially having DD blame, its so hard for them and easier to blame the one that they feel free to shout at, but also will never be able to bear seeing either of you hurt by the other (which is what she 'thought' she saw (regardless of any other hurts she might have from him).

... and the whole world seemingly knowing your business (as reported by FW), No doubt he will tarnish you with everything he can possibly think of, he has his back against the wall and is gonna predictably come out fighting. Yep, I am absolute scum to the FW that unfortunately seems to be part of my life and will be for the rest of it which I am just starting to realise!!!! AAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH! He is not wasting ANY opportunity to disrespect undermine and generally negate and denegrate at every turn to anyone that will listen, and jsut stands by as his FW of a g/f slags me off to DC too. Its all great fun and games. The only thing that matters is that you know who you are, and that you are being a great mum for your kids, and other people will have to make their own minds up.

So.. I can't post any more, I'm sorry to any that I missed, but shattered tonight and have impending nerves.