Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Must be very useful having a solicitor who sees them as the FWs they are. I've been wondering: at what stage should I see a solicitor? After I move out? Or before, given that finance will have to be sorted out fairly soon after separation? I'm not even sure I know what solicitors do, exactly. Or how much they cost.

Fi, I know what you mean, fog with a partner can cause fog everywhere else. I'm sure this is in Lundy somewhere. I know I've put up with shocking behaviour in the workplace in the past because my own boundaries of what is right and normal is so skewed. So says my counsellor. I think its common.

Matchsticks, get whatever support for you that you can. If you think his behaviour might get worse, have no hesitation.

And good rant, Silver! . Sometimes my NSDH is in the 'doing nothing' category, since woman = household slave. He swings from insane OCD to grubby bastard. It's exhausting.

NSDH has gone out tonight, so I've got some studying done. Dreading him coming home, the inevitable beer breath, half-arsed come-on and snoring. Yuck.

I saw mine after. She was v clear about the cost. Petition itself 1300, but finances anyone's guess, but judging by my fw's behaviour it will go to a second court appearance when costs would be around 10k. She says if things go to a 3rd and final appearance when the judge just makes a decision, it can be 20-25k.
Of course, the costs for sorting arrangements for the children are entirely separate. I have given mine 900 quid and am setting up a standing order for 250 a month to reduce the final bill.

What?!? How does anyone afford it?

Well there goes my chances of ever getting divorced then...........

Good idea Matchsticks get your options first. I rang around to test out 'what ifs' because I felt things would go crazy in that way without giving out personal details, withheld phone number, etc. Find out your position and you will feel stronger and supported. I do know you will not be supported legally if you knowingly give your FW access in the knowledge he could harm, as you are legally supposed to protect, and I understand why you do... I do too, but have changed it now. The car park arrangement didn't work, but you were amazingly strong to do that. Contact centre seems another possibility, but don't know how that works? take care xx

Silver he's only a FW because I make him do it. I guess we're all the same then! pah!

I did a form filling divorce with the courts, didn't cost more than £100 at the time I think, is that still an option??? anyone know

the DV form option was only available to me on an already agreed basis as I remember, if there's any contesting then zillions of pounds it is

Also Matchsticks I have the same questions around the courts costs for child arrangements and told best to dictate the terms of contact in DC best interests (for protections etc), and then if he's not happy (which he's not atall, in fact disgusted), then he can take me to court, and I can state my own case without a solicitor (even writing notes to the judge in answer if needs be, with special consideration/mitigation/allowances for suffering the abuse).

mmm. .nini sorry to hear that, same here.

Sol was well worth every bit of her fee - which was 2,700 K or so inc VAT for the financial settlement. Plus there were court fees, but these didn't add much. I saved money by doing a lot of info gathering and sorting re financials, and tracking down stuff myself, and carefully reading everything FX submitted. didn't have to pay for divorce, as sols made an error (not claiming costs from FW when they were instucted to do so) - but actually, things went better because of that, I suspect!

I had to take FW to court over the settlement, as he refused to supply financial details - for no real reason but to stay on till the spring/summer, and to be a pain in the arse to me. We exhanged Form E's, questionnaires and replies to q's, and submitted timelines. Had first very quick meeting with judge, settled before getting to First Appointment, sol and me negotiated with him at my sols, and we reached a settlement proposed by me, and sol got £500 towards my costs as FW had refused to engage a sol himself.

My situation is different from most of you ladies, as kids were grown, and although FW hardly worked, and I was sometimes to ill to work or to look for work (depressed!), we had enough familiy money (mostly from my side) that came in over the years that we could live frugally but only by eking out capital from inheritances etc. I thought we were doing this while FW found a way of supporting us financially as well, but apparently not! He has told people he had to give up full time work because I was incapable of looking after the kids!!! No, I found it v disheartening living with someone who wouldn't help with the housework, and refused to discuss money, and thought he was within his rights to live off me just because we were married. In short, a cocklodger.

Ranty night tonight

Just to make it clear, sol and me negotiated to get the £500 from Ex as part of the settlement, which we signed the same day. Then the judge had to approve it (smallish court fee), he wrote to Ex asking if he had had opportunity to use solicitor himself, which Ex confirmed (because part of settlement uninforceable, and Ex was representing himself). ~Early on in the process, Ex had had a sol's free 30 min interview, in which I am certain he did not give full or accurate facts.

What am I saying here? Just expect them to carry on being a selfish FW for as long as it takes, I'm afraid

this was only a few years ago Silver ? and what am I saying? A lawyer is essential for FW negotiations, or is there a mediation service (not meditation this time!) that could be sufficient to resolve without high solicitor costs. Although yours sounds most reasonable and you have had the outcome you sought.

Ranty, [flike] good word, and good to rant!

yours [solicitor] sounds reasonable... just in case you were thinking I meant [FW].. no, no, no!

I started proceedings Sept 2011, divorce Feb 2012, then began court proceedings same month, settled May, Aug FW (&DD) moved out. Twas tricky getting to keep the house, but we did it (me, sol and DCat).

aw.. that last bit! the DCat's - sweeeet! Maybe DCat will be curling up in the warmest sunniest spot of the ohmmm room to add to the serenity. Well only just for your divorce then, oh! AND REMOVAL OF FW - can hear the corks popping from here, and keeping the house, excellent.

Hi leclerc hope you're ok. Thinking of you. xx

Hugs Leclerc. You ok?

Catching up on a post I forgot to reply to - Curtis, think I read in Lundy that men like ours do certain things in the early days of relationships to see what you'll put up with - someone with balanced self-esteem will get rid straight away, but someone less confident or sure in themselves won't. It's only now, looking back, that you see the red flags. Makes sense to me anyway.

oh dear Leclerc sorry to hear of shit evening and weariness. Hopes for improvements as the day goes on.

mmmm Nini sagely nodding [now...!]

hey everyone - sorry haven't been on the thread. thinking of you all. i was just reading about the solicitor stuff - i read that mediation is no good unless you can cooperate and compromise and certainly not if DV. but mediation is free local to me.

i think i will need a solicitor as its a nightmare sorting out contact with dh. but there is no possible way i can afford it. i have zilch. i have just got a part time job to keep my car running. WA said they have solicitors you can speak to so i might contact them.... but i would think this is a one off basis only.

i guess everyones having a hard time sorting Christmas. ive just send dh an email saying because he has refused to commit to plans over christmas, i will be sorting out my own plans and arrangements for dd, and if he wants to see her he must give me a weeks notice. bit nervous as to how he will reply. i gave him over a month to reply for him to turn round and say he can't predict the future and has too much coursework to do. its so tiring at this time of year without added stress. thinking of everyone.

well done for making your own arrangements and letting him know that. Its trying to treat him as if he's 'normal'!!! ha! yeah I know, but if you write the words as if you were talking to a reasonable person, and then send you know you are being reasonable and have your own events and priorities too. You cannot wait a month for goodness sake! If he cannot commit to seeing his own daugther because of too much 'other stuff' whatever it is (mine has had 'to cancel work then!!!!!' like I care what he has to do, thats his choice to cancel or not if he wants contact) then he's being a complete shit and not caring about his daughter's needs atall, only his own.

WA advise to dictate contact on sound terms providing its safe to do so (supervision if necessary,etc) and if he not happy, they he pays for court, and if you have provided regular consistent (where safe to), they won't understand what the problem is. I don't know outside of that whether others already had contact in place but court overruled contact arrangements?

Jangle mediation can be done separately if there has been a history of abuse or threatening behaviour (or any other reason for non contact|) although not often recommended (or successful) it can be useful in sorting out the details...with a good mediator they will soon call "time" if either party are not playing ball.

Obligatory mediation had just come in as we were doing our financial fighting negotiation. The mediator wrote to each of us separately asking us to make indiv appts for assessment, cost £100. I booked mine, went to appt, FW had not even rung them or made any response to letter. As the time limit for him doing so, mediator signed us straight back to sol.

Thank goodness we weren't wrangling over the kids. I wouldn't recommend anyone staying 'for the sake of the kids' but in a way I am glad we stuck it out for the time we did, even though it was through misplaced hope on my part, and financial luck that we could afford to do it. Apart from being utterly selfish round the house, kids are lovely, and time will teach them about the practicalities of life that I was dealing with.

God, I didn't realise mediation r.e the children was obligatory. My ex would prob charm everyone and make it look like I'm being unreasonable.