Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Feeling stupid all over again that others see what I cannot.

It's all a learning game, Fi, FW foggyness and all that. The fog gets lifted here

Lol @ leclerc, definitely an upside!

FW only wanked once in bed with me that I know of. I was

And of course he wanked in the spare room (am naive, but not that naive :) - but it did not occur to me that even he would leave wank tissues around on the floor. I only did it a couple of times, as I found it hard to do housework of any kind (and am natural slob) while resentful that I was the only one doing it, and for the last year and more of us being in the same house, I was on housework strike!

Nini at Cloud Approeciation Society interview woman - what a funny coincidence!! Bonkers sounds about right was considering joining

Nini, am slightly agog at what he did in the early days. It really does throw the notion that any of what these FWs do is out of their control. That is so deliberate, testing to see what you'd put up with, or at the very least having a bit of a laugh to see if he can wake you up with pain. So very sick.

And just when I feel bad about going down the divorce route, this happens.
So, emailed FW to tell him how DS2 is (phone is bust, on top of everything else). He emailed back, a couple of words of 'hope he's ok', then onto saying he'd texted me (so keen to say all this), that he's bagged up more of my stuff, he would come down and drop it off (note lack of request), and also could he have DS2 for a while on Mon 24th instead of one of the weekend days, as his girls weren't coming through that weekend but would be here in the Monday. I say no to the stuff, I'll get it at the weekend. Re the Monday, I think that's probably fine but not going to get into the habit of automatically agreeing, will have a little think and let him know. I say that I'll get back to him.
Now I get this:
I'll drop off your stuff on Saturday morning, its in the garage. Making plans with girls and would appreciate it if you could give me an answer about Christmas eve. I would assume you wouldn't have any real problem with him coming, even for a little while, it is Christmas eve.Hopefully your not being awkward.

Am boiling, boiling mad! The cheeky FW! He knows fine well I'm not being awkward, it's just an opportunity to dig at me and make me annoyed! It's not the first time he's made accusations of me 'being difficult' with the kids.

I can't reply how I really want to, obviously. So any ideas what I should say? At the moment, I'm planning on asking him to clarify what time on the 24th.

This is how it's going to be now with him. Bit fecking eejit.

pony I am in a similar position. I don't want to feel like he says jump r.e access to the kids and I ask how high. I am really struggling to assert myself in this area. I have managed to say all pick ups and handovers are to be in the supermarket car park. First one tonight and so nervous about how it will go.
I have sent a text to his first wife and what I got back was horrendous and makes me fear for the future. She says he doesn't play fair and accused her of various things, even making out to social services that she was abusing the kids.
I want to restrict my dc's contact to one weekend day and 1 or 2 days after school, but scared to say that to him.

Matchsticks, I completely understand. I don't think any of us are used to being assertive, more used to letting people 'tak a lain ae us' (take advantage of us). When I split with DS1's father, I felt terrible guilt that I was the one saying what happened with him seeing his son. But I was perfectly reasonable, fair and flexible. Even then, he wanted more, and I think if I'd kept giving in he would have kept asking for more and more and more. You've drawn your line in the sand, that's great, but I understand that you feel nervous because you know he'll try and walk all over it.

What you are proposing re one weekend day and 1/2 days after school sounds reasonable too. Why not contact a solicitor and have them send him a letter saying that,rather than you saying it to him? If he's got history with not playing fair, you really need to get things sorted officially, i think. The time for being flexible and making arrangements between you (which can only be managed if you are both reasonable, and he isn't) is past.

Forgot to say, what's the arrangement for him seeing them at the moment?

At the moment it's all over the place. He works shifts and things are very ad hoc. Tuesday, when he was trying to blackmail me he'd said he was 'leaving the kids to you to see how you like that!'. Then this morning I got a text saying he was collecting them. I hadn't told dd that it would be him collecting her and I texted him saying he needed to make sure he was clear about what he was doing as it isn't fair to her. Ds is 2.5 so obviously hasn't a clue as long as someone he knows comes!
I have emailed my solicitor and she is going to get back to me once she's given it some thought.
I actually feel dread and panic as I am fetching them in half an hour.

I know that feeling of dread and panic well. Try and stay calm, take deep breaths to stay calm.

Shifts or not, it should still be possible to have a pattern around the shifts, if he lets you know in advance what they'll be. For example, DS1's dad worked shifts but was able to secure a specific pattern every week (ie Monday afternoon and Tuesday off) in a family-friendly working pattern. There are ways and means, if the flesh is willing... and by that, I mean if he is willing. But he's not, obviously, he wants you to do all the work, all the inconvenience, etc.

Good luck, hope it goes ok.

I have his schedule for the next 3 months so hopefully can work stuff out in advance. Thankfully after next week there are a couple of weeks where he won't be able to see them much due to work commitments.

Huge cheers for 'housework strike' Silver - echoing all around the commune! (esp. for ironing!).

Cheers Nini does fog with FW mean fog everywhere!? I mean with anyone that was disrespectful (I know someone mentioned being very different with everyone else and being very clear about boundaries, rights, respect, other than with FW). If excluded from conversations, or, well you know, the more subtle types of ignoring/dismissing behaviours, like power games at work, etc. is that managed ok, or only where love becomes involved? I'm not sure if that makes sense?! I started this earlier and got called away. I'm sure you can let me know if not

(and nearly lost the posting!)

sorry to hear contact difficulties ladies :( most distressing. have same to face right now too.

Can only say that response is not unexpected from him Pony (in terms of what I am familiar with). Just realised that anything I say will be wrong. So just have to say it and be done as long as I know its in best interests of DC. Whats the saying, 'feel the fear and do it anyway' (makes the fear go away).

and the good thing is Matchsticks is that they have had dealings with your FW in social services before so the boy who cried wolf might be a familiar story to them!

Breathe.....

The handover went as expected. He wants to do handovers somewhere else as driving 5 mins out of his way is clearly unacceptable . I refused. He says he won't accompany dd on her school trip then. However, my dm can take the day off, which is what I will text him on Sunday night.

good for you Matchsticks Stooooopid childish behaviour on his part (sorry to children for that expression!), and good that DD can still go on trip! .

You done good! surely the 'first and worst' done, well ...

My God, you should have seen the state of the house by the end though!

It has been very satisfying getting everything clean, I even got the scuff marks off the walls in the hall, and discovered the paint FWEx had got on the stair skirting board when he painted the wall came off v easily.

This is the sort of deep cleaning I never had time to do - or, strictly speaking had time to do but did not want to do in addition to the everyday cleaning. FW did load the dishwasher and clean the cooker, he also took over the cooking. And the kids rooms and bathroom I left to them, unless someone was coming to stay. But I received no help with the daily grind from the other 3 adults who lived in the same house until DS moved out, then no help from the other 2 adults who remained till August last.

Even when I was in psych hospital for 6 days in July, I came out and they hadn't done a bat (as they say round here). My friend who gave me a lift from the hospital was shocked at the state of the house!

My FWEx doesn't seem to be in Lundy, he abused by Doing Nothing. The verbal, emotional and financial abuse arose out of that.

Feel better for that! Haven't had a rant in ages - haven't needed one:)

Has anyone had ss involved? My ex is so erratic at the moment. Although at the moment nothing has happened when the dc have been with him, the reason I left was that he had kicked dd off the bed and then screamed in her face. I have let him have contact as I was scared of what he would do if he didn't. He is very unpredictable. Even tonight he was shouting at me about the handover point as I was strapping the dc in. My dd told him to shut up and then told me if daddy shouts at me she will look after me . I don't know whether to ring ss or not. Scared of what might happen either way.

Matchsticks your obligation is to protect her, and important she doesn't feel she needs to protect you either, as I'm sure you absolutely know already. Social Services don't have to be involved, but you do have to protect her from him. If he is scaring her, unpredictable (might physically hurt her - this is a very real danger to her and she should not be left alone with him) and screaming in her poor little face like that aswell . If he doesn't like the provisions you put in place for her protection he will have to take you to court (you must show that you are protecting her otherwise you will be failing in their eyes). As you say he's already 'cried wolf' when HE is the abuser; she is safe with you and you have a very good witness in the other ExP of his, which is a strong ally that few have in this situation, and she sounds like she has your back in that sense.

Police suggested to me that a member of my family be a supervisor so that FW can only see DC at theirs whilst other family member present. Would that be an option for you then you wouldn't have to see him and she would be safe? (Sorry if you might have already mentioned this background that I have missed - I don't manage to keep up with all thats happening on here)

Aw, shocking Silver - and it isn't in Lundy!?! even more shocking! [fgasp] those were the first words I braved 'you do nothing'. He'd gotten away with me doing it all up til then and hiding that he didn't do any of it. hmmm so much protection of him. I changed everything in mine afterwards, part of the cleansing. glad you feel better for rant

Unfortunately family aren't in the same town. My sister is a sw and says she will speak to her boss tomorrow for advice. I just fear if I put things in place he will take the kids and do something stupid to show me who's boss.

Everyone needs a good rant now and then Silver! Maybe, at the other end of the commune from the artists' room could be a rant room, for primal screaming and general ranting. It could be painted red!

Matchsticks, well done for standing firm, it takes a lot to do that in the face of that kind of behaviour. Tell the solicitor what's been said, see what her advice is (if he were to try and take you to court to get the access he wants, the fact that he's used DD as a pawn wont be viewed well). Maybe speak to someone like your Health Visitor in confidence, see what they think. Mine's been great. There interest is your child and you, so that's what they will focus on.

Fi, you are right, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, in terms of how I reply. Because it's not about my reply, it's about him feeling that he has to put me down and manipulate me all the time, and is hoping to goad me into a reaction where he can then go 'oh pony, there's no need for that, I'm just trying to sort things out '. I need to try and remember that.
In the end, I replied just that I needed to make sure there were no other plans for the day and asked him what times he suggested for drop-off/pick-up. Surprisingly or not, given how urgent this seemed earlier today for me to reply instantly, I haven't heard anything back from him yet.
I suspect he's also making comments like that to manipulate me. Ie if he suggests I'm being difficult or keeping 'his son' from him, he thinks I'll be more likely to go the other way and give him whatever access he's asking for so he can't say I'm being difficult. Not going to happen.

Matchsticks, cross-post. Glad your sis will seek advice for you. But you absolutely cannot let him rule your life by you not doing anything because you fear he would behave even worse than he does now. That's what he's banking on by making you even think that he'd do something like that. It's all hot air, I would think. But regardless, you can't continue to let him rule your life with his abuse. If you do put things in place, you can keep him away from your kids so he can't do anything, like insisting he see them a contact centre.

You've done so well this evening, take heart from that. It's all baby steps!

I think I will ring ss for advice without giving my name at first. Also will ring hv and domestic abuse team. My sis says I could get a support worker. I probably need one. I'm meant to be back teaching Monday, but I just can't begin to think about it.

"'I'll drop off your stuff on Saturday morning, its in the garage. Making plans with girls and would appreciate it if you could give me an answer about Christmas eve. I would assume you wouldn't have any real problem with him coming, even for a little while, it is Christmas eve.Hopefully your not being awkward.'

"Am boiling, boiling mad! The cheeky FW! He knows fine well I'm not being awkward, it's just an opportunity to dig at me and make me annoyed! It's not the first time he's made accusations of me 'being difficult' with the kids."

This is exactly the tone of letters and emails from FWEx to my solicitor and to me. My sol thought they were snotty. When I mentioned the tone of the letters to FW he genuinely (I do believe) didn't think there was anything wrong with them, he didn't think he was being FW. But the FWness was obvious to others as well as me. I think they are so used to thinking in a mean and selfish way that it colours whatever they write.