Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Maggie, your last line sums it up perfectly for me. This will be our year ladies. It has to be. Sorry you're feeling poorly. Your FW having a go at himself must be quite scary, I also think my NSDH has a 'ball of anger' as you so aptly put it, but he never aims it at himself.

Regarding the 'if I'm wavering' diary, I'm going to go back to my first posts on the EA thread and keep copies, as I feel I am wavering at the moment. I don't know why, I don't think he's getting any better, I just think I've lost my nerve.

And a massive YY to playing the 'mother can't cope' card. Drives me nuts. Superdad in public, a wanker at home.

Hugs to Fi and Pony too. Hugs to everyone.

New year wasn't as bad as I feared in the end. As always, NSDH had to create a total non-drama when we left the house (swearing, erratic driving, having a go at me for there being not enough petrol in the car), but he calmed down by the time we got to the party. He then started playing the whole 'Disney Dad' game. Kept telling everybody in a loud voice how he wasn't going to drink much so I could 'relax' () and all that bollocks. He spent most of the evening making loud jokes full of not-so-subtle sexual innuendo about how he wasn't getting enough and kept scouting out places in the hotel where we could 'do it' . I ended up kissing him at midnight but it was a quick peck on the lips and he didn't try to force me into anything more, which was good.

He then stayed up until 5am, DD wouldn't sleep and got up early so I ended up having less sleep than he did and was very tired. We got home and he reverted back to type - wanting to go to bed to sleep (I asked him not to as I didn't want to be left alone to cope with wide-awake DD). He's now decided that as it's a new year we need a 'new start' - which as always has translated into his favourite method of him doing exactly as he's always done and me not being allowed to make any complaint as it's a 'new year'.

I was starting to think (yet again) that it's just me imagining things at that I'm really the problem - until today. The cat escaped from downstairs in the middle of the night again and came up to wake us up. Yet AGAIN he turned over violently, knocking her flying and into my face. I told him off. He told me off back. Then when he got up this morning, he went back to his same old trick of stomping around as loudly as possible to wake me, leaving lights on etc. And didn't put the recycling out before he left (a job he always does unless he's angry with me), so I had to do it, in between getting myself and DD ready (who is saying no to everything these days). And round and round we go...

One other small thing (very conscious that this is an epic post). On NYE when packing to leave for the party, I noticed that NSDH had left his wet bath towel on top of the dress I was intending to wear (he does this regularly and I think its deliberate). I shouted down the stairs at him - admit I lost my temper for a minute. DD was in the living room with him, overheard and got very frightened. I came downstairs and she was clinging to him in fear, he kept saying "Mummy's not angry at you, she's angry at Daddy" and I nearly cried myself. No matter how hard I try not to let anything affect her, it just seems to. I'm a terrible Mum.

More hugs Pony after your last post. Also thinking of you

This whole thought process of "I can act however I like, shout, stamp my feet, be rude and name-call, practically go nuclear for any little thing. YOU however, musn't get upset or annoyed at ANYTHING or you will surely ruin the day with your negative attitude." I get this ALL the TIME! In other words, I don't have a right to be upset or angry.. only he does. Apparently.

I might point out that I am SO INCREDIBLY TIRED of being the "stay calm policeman." I'm constantly having to remind him to calm down, don't shout, don't be unreasonable. Who actually LIVES like that?!?!!

I used to get the "don't you speak to me like that!" treatment, but it was okay for me to be told to get out of his fucking sight in front of the dc or called a fucking cunt.
I may be going through a divorce and trying to balance the books, but at least I don't have to put up with that anymore.

hope you are ok twelve ? noticed your screeeee....... m back there.

oh nini don't take it out on yourself, its impossible!! and frustrating to the end, enough to frazzle anyone. None of us are saints, we're just regular lovely hoooomans that are struggling with FW's.

here here matchsticks ! first festive anything for a while I think, better get one or two in b4 festivities finished

and thanks for hugs ladies (very much). pony is so lovely I think to hear our little lovelies talking about these difficult things with others. Sad for your loss; healing time for you all take care.

thank you Silvery

Hi all, have been following thread but back at work and all chaos at home, so not much time to post. But hugs and strength to all.

Twelve I heard your screeeeam too and hope you're ok.

OK. I have clarity right now so need to get it down for my own mind and for your lovely lot to comment/advise before fog strikes again.

Second viewing of good flat, above budget but right in other ways - tomorrow. I plan to make a low offer, which keeps channels open.

Meanwhile plan of action re FW, now I am so much stronger after a year of being separate under same roof is this:

Get Dbro to be at house, with kids out. Then, feeling safe, have face to face talk with fw, telling him (and this is in the cause of pre-empting leaving-stage escalation, on advice of Joe Carver or someone...): "I am emotionally numb, my feelings are all over the place, but I cannot accept his behaviour and I need a break from our relationship to think" (obvs in my mind it's permanent, but need to avoid huge histrionics and poss violence... he will hopefully keep it in check if he thinks there's hope - sounds cruel perhaps but his behaviour has made me have to act this way).

Then I tell him ideally I'd like him to leave family home (and offer him what funds I can to facilitate) during our "break" because it minimises disruption for kids. But if he refuses, I will say, ok I have no choice but to leave myself, as I don't feel safe having laid cards on table and because I am committed to living separately as the only way we can assess our relationship. I will tell him I have temp house lined up that I will take, adding that it's school catchment (poss face saver for him, again to bypass explosions) which is bonus. He will have to find something to blame that's not himself, or he will unravel which would be risky to us. So my "emotional numbness" and other boring phrases, plus the catchment thing, may save his internal face IYSWIM.

Then I will take kids out of school, go up to dm's to deposit dcat for safety and either stay there with dcs or come back to holiday let or B&B down here (re school/work demands) while I wait for a) him to leave or b) our new place to become free (2nd feb)

Finally a solid plan that gives me a poss chance to keep my home but if not, an escape route. Thoughts, lovely ones? Thanks xx

PS sorry for epic post - a) need your views and b) need to get my plan down (which feels right, such a relief) while head is clear!

Trying sorry will post back again later soon x just need to quickly vent at the mo

I have been so stupid this morning, FW was on about a (uk) holiday thats booked for may and i let slip that I won't be going etc etc-he went mental, shouting, smashing stuff. I closed door to kitchen and let him get on with it, he then calmed down and has now take DD to nursery as he always does thurs morns but god know what I'm in for when he gets back, when he was closing front door, I went to lock it behind him as normal and he tried to kick me saying I have a lot to answer for. I'm so silly letting my acting guard down. He's off work today so will have to have FWerty all day. DS is awake but I'm letting him play in his cot for a bit until FW comes home and I can gage what sort of mood he's in. Why and how did my life end up like this, what did I do to deserve it 24 hours ago I was having a big guilty wobble about making the next step in my escape plan, think this mornings episode has just told me that I need to be strong and get on with it

What time will he be back, Maggie, can you let us know if you are safe? I'm worried for you.

Could you phone the police to say your partner has smashed stuff up and now you are scared?

Let us know when you can how things are.

Try - def a good idea for someone else to be there while you talk to him, otherwise I'd be advising just to go without talking to him. I might recommend writing what you want to say in a letter, in case you forget or get scared or in case he fogs things. The only other thing I thought when reading your plan is - why offer him money to facilitate him leaving? I'd try to avoid talking about money, otherwise he might take you up on your offer and fleece you, and you'll end up paying him money and going without. I'd leave money discussions till you (or he) is out.

Will you do this before you have to commit to the flat, etc? I mean, if he does go, will you lose out on a deposit, etc that you have paid? (If your lower offer gets accepted, etc - or are you really thinking that of course he wont leave anyway?)

Next question: when do you think you'll do this?

Maggie, are you ok? Would it be better to get yourself and DS out of the house?

Try, that sounds like a good plan to me, but of course I'm still on the inside so don't have any experience of this. You sound like you're thought this through very carefully - I take it your Dbro and DMum are aware and on board too?

Only a very recent reader of this thread.

Maggie keep yourself safe. I'm sorry you seem to be in for an extremely unpleasant and stressful day. Can you go out to visit family/friends?

Your FW is undoubtedly a FW and does seem to have mh problems. Is this shouting at himself recent and has he been dropping things a lot? I ask because I wonder if he is losing his grip in more ways than one. Is there any possibility that he has the early symptoms some kind of neurological condition. Even if he hasn't, could you raise it in faux concern and distract him for a bit?

Since the conversation would be about him and about a physical rather than a mental problem he might accept it. Encourage him to discuss it with his family or someone neutral because, 'you don't want you think I'm trying to get at you.'

I realise that reasoning with someone so unreasonable would probably just blow up in your face so ignore this if it is hopelessly naive.

Keep planning and don't feel guilty for a moment.

I don't want you to think...

My confession time - I'm struggling. There's so much going on. I need to decide when to send the letter to FW kicking everything off, and whether to tell him I'm doing this before he just gets it through the door. I need to sort out what I'm doing about going down to the funeral, how long I'll go for, where I'll stay, should I drive or fly, should I take DS2 as well.

And I started trying to cut down on my eating yesterday. Did fairly ok during the day, told parents I didn't want a big dessert at our family Sunday dinner any more (there's normally a special cake and ice cream). Then I put the kids to bed, and despite planning an early night I had a glass of wine. And another. And a packet of crisps. And another. And a couple of biscuits. And then more wine, and then I started in on the piece of brie I'd got for New Year's Eve (but couldn't face at the time). I ate the whole lot. I felt awful, and knew I was somehow punishing and self-sabotaging, but just went for it. Trying not to beat myself up too much today, trying to be kind to myself and see it as a blip and move on. I've moved all of the wine out of the kitchen and put it in the hall cupboard where I can't see it. But I just needed to not hide this away so I'm ranting about it here.

Anyway. Today will be better. Thinking of you all.

I only have a quick mo so cannot do you girls justice with your horrible challenges today.. but Maggie be safe, and sorry for awful FW carry on - could you phone the police and make sure he doesn't get back in (after trying to kick you! so glad it has removed traces of guilt that you thought you would load on yourself for a moment there take care xx

Sounds like a well thought out plan Try and is good to hear you are ready to fly and even better that you are trying to make him do the flying! I found it helpful when anticipating a possible incident (like in your case, having your dbro there), to tell the police what has been happening and have it recorded that you are going to do this and when, then call 999 if ANYTHING atall happens. You will feel safer with this backup. So hope that the lower offer is accepted, or better that you can stay and he will go, finally! take care sorry no time to look at details of your plan to offer comment but don't pay him.

Pony don't panic hun! I can't think of anything more rewarding than eating whole brie to myself! or Stilton, camembert, with lashings of red wine, followed by whole box of chocs! he he! tough times for you sweetie, to make myself feel better I might have a couple of grapes too! You will come to a plan and know how to do it, come back and rant more if it doesn't come quick enuff! A lot to consider when you are grieving. be kind to you

will look in tomorrow (or maybe v. late tonight) to see if can be of use of any then. xxx

Hi all, am safe, thank you all, write proper tonight when he's gone to bed x

Hi thanks all - quick post in between kid pick ups. Maggie so glad you're safe, lovey. pony don't beat yourself up - it's a blip as you say - these things can't be done all at once - baby steps, like leaving an ea relationship. I speak from bitter snacking experience

Reason for offering fw money is that our situation means most his salary goes on shared debt that relates to our cars and my (he will claim our) business, while my income pays the household stuff, bills, mortgage, kids etc. So he doesn't have the wherewithal to move - I manage our accounts so I know this is correct. What I was going to offer was giving him one strand of the business income (don't get me wrong, it's no fortune ) so that he can actually manage to move, otherwise he can't - this would be set against the fact that his salary is going to pay business debt and my car.

I registered ea and occasional pa with police, relate and gp some time ago. Was planning to go again to police station just to give update and ask for support. Even maybe a policeman with me while I tell him?! And also WA - was going to report to them, ask advice and ask them to keep the notes on files. Will also inform my sol. Also going to change my will to ensure should anything happen to me (God forbid), my family take on my share of parental responsibility.

Maggie - glad you're safe. Just a quick peek in myself as well. Particularly stressful day here as well, but will try to come back tonight a bit when things are settled (hopefully).

Try - I'm curious about this thing you said about registering ea and occasional pa with the police and such. How does that work? I'm afraid of things going completely out of control.

Hi I'll be back properly tonight too, but just to answer your question, Twelve, a year or two ago, when things were quite frightening and he had acted out a PA on me, I went to police for advice. They said they could inform him and take it further, meaning he might be charged or alternatively, they could note it on file, and this would mean he wouldn't know about it unless I chose to tell him, but that it was official and that if I made an emergency call from my number, they would have me marked as help urgently needed or something.

I didn't tell them about the clipping round ear and smacking of dcs because a) I was terrified of repercussions (was haunted by thought he might kill us all - I think and hope I was a bit off kilter about this) and wanted to manage our escape in my own way. I thought if I did mention that, they may come and take kids away and kids would be much damaged by being taken in to care, as opposed to being with me protecting them from occasional flashes of temper from fw at home. I kinda wish I had told them though, as I now realise that SS would rather help the "good" parent escape and keep kids with a parent than put them into care. So this time round I am hoping to be brave enough (yikes) and far enough down the line and out of his psychological clutches to mention everything - I somewhat minimised aggression before.

AIUI if you reg with police they will prioritise your call should the need arise.

you can register anonymously too twelve if you are worried, just state all the facts of the incident and keep a record of the number (which can be tied into any future incidents that you want to record anon or come out about).

I still think Try that you owe him nothing, and like all of us without financial support we have to go to get benefits help to house and support living until incomes established, but defer to your knowledge of how he works for the business and what income he may rightly earn from that.

It's something worth considering. Thank you for that information. No idea when I'd be able to do it, as he's here 24/7 right now.

Maggie how are things? Hope you are safe.
leclerc glad things are better with the dc at the moment. Hope the rest of dd1's stay goes smoothly.
twelve, how are you doing now?
pony, hope you are being kind to yourself. What have you decided to do r.e the funeral?

Bizarre conversation with FW today. We have agreed on a (low) settlement. I just want this to be over. Then he checked ( again) if this is what I really want, as according to him we don't have any problems we can't sort out. So I enlightened him about what living with him has been like. And didn't even go into massive detail. Told him I am concerned about the possibility of him losing it with the kids when I'm not there. Told him I don't want him having them overnight more than one night a week, and that even that is hard for me. He says I obviously don't trust him. I told him that since there have been incidents that I have witnessed, how did I know what would happen when I'm not there?
He says he can't afford to fight over the dc again as he did it with his first wife, so will have to go with whatever I say. The dc are happy to go at the moment, but dd says he is a bit shouty. He explained away the kicking dd off the bed incident by saying he was worried and stressed, but I told him that is not how a 'normal' person reacts.
I was on form actually and told him I don't think he even likes me as a person, it is just what I did for him that he misses. Like getting home from work to an empty house with no hot meal waiting for him. He denies it, but I know it's true. You wouldn't say the stuff he has to me if you really loved and respected someone.