Support thread for those in emotionally abusive relationships: 14

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

trying, I agree, I think the divorce itself can be done relatively (relatively) cheaply, it's trying to tie up all the finances and get agreement there, and with child contact, that's what ends up costing.

Nini, your post made me so sad. I've watched you get further and further ground down over the weeks. My first reason for you leaving would be you - your mental health, your physical health, your self-esteem, your self-worth. While you stay, all these things are suffering terribly, and you are completely miserable. And the second reason is DD. Because while you are suffering like this, she is affected.

I completely agree with Matchstick's list - my 'financially better off' situation is because I get tax credits now, which I didn't do when I was with him (and I didn't see any of his money, so I was skint all the time with just my small earnings). Have you looked into what benefits you'd be able to claim? I found that I could claim working tax credits if DS was in childcare, which more or less paid for the childcare outright.

Yes, you'd still have to have contact with him, but it's not the same as living with him.
Yes, he'd try to make life difficult for you, but it's much easier to tell him to 'fuck the fuck off' when you're not living in the situation and walking on eggshells.
Yes, he's probably not a great parent - but either he'll need to cope, or he wont get to see her. And if he is seeing her, then you get a little break (and no guilt/payback from him either, and he can't regularly cancel, unless he wants to stop seeing her altogether).
And believe me, your life wouldn't get worse. It might not get any better for the first few months, as you adjust and experience his anger at you going, etc. But it will get better.

And everything that Leclerc said about not knowing what the future holds. (How's your head, btw?) Unless you you stay, in which case you do know, and it's not good, happy stuff. I can't think of a single thread on here from someone who's left an abusive relationship and wishes they hadn't.

Sending you hugs, Nini. and

jangle, glad you feel something positive came out of a difficult confrontation. Interesting that living with him again is having a similar effect on them that it had on you... Oh, and I love the idea of double the years - looking forward to all 26 of them!

Leclerc, hope she just didn't have her phone with her, or some such.

Matchsticks, that list sounds great! Nini, I wonder that myself sometimes, but from experience can say that having FW around all the time is far worse than dealing with him once or twice a week.

Well, it is harder having him back than I had anticipated. Small things, like calling him darling (usually automatic) stick in my throat now. DD3 didn't like it today that I didn't drive the car (never do when he's around). And the constant little criticisms -he even complained about the way I walked across the car park! Wtf?!? (In case you're wondering, I walked on pavement round edge, with 4 dcs, rather than cutting across the middle. It wasn't a dramatic difference in terms of distance.)

I feel like he wants to have a perfect life and a perfect family, so any time we don't match up to that, he's casting around for someone (else) to blame. By far the worst incident today was an accident as we were all getting into the car - dd1 didn't see dd3 by her door and slammed it on her head . Of course, this was painful for dd3, but also upsetting for dd1, as you'd imagine. FW, though, railed at her for it: "It was an accident [in reply to what I'd said], but it was your [dd1's] fault. You should've been looking. How on earth could you not have seen her?" And on and on. I tried to defend her, but all it really did was prolong the rant. It wasn't the only time he picked on her. She had already pointed out at breakfast time that he'd "criticised my picture and criticised your Christmas letter, Mum". She is quite right that he tells her off for things that he doesn't mention if dd2 or ds do them.

All of which does have a use, in that it makes me more sure of myself. He's been very engaged with the family today (till he fell asleep after the exertion of making dinner, thus missing out on putting all 4 dcs to bed), which only really highlights, I suppose, what they are missing out on the rest of the time.

Still, it's so hard to say nothing. He asked before he got home yesterday if I'd changed the locks, asked if I'd had that affair he was worried about... he's definitely sensing that I'm not fully committed to this marriage!!

He's off tomorrow overnight! Already! What a relief!

The first step is really to kind of dream - but dream hard! This means working out what your possible financilal situatition(s) would or could be, according to different scenarios. This gets you thinking in a different way, but in itself is not a commitment to moving out (yet?)

Very scary doing it, I imagine - but to those who have - how did you feel your first night of escape? Was there exhilaration, fear or a mix (I guess the latter)?

for you leclerc! Did you change locks? I assume he was away when you did it? My prob is, FW never goes anywhere apart from work. That's why I have to move but am very unhappy about leaving home

I too shook for days and literally cried multiple times a day for about a fortnight. But still felt a sense of relief. It took a good month for FW to realise I was serious. He went through tears, denial, anger and now it's a mix of anger and denial depending on what has happened.
I feel great apart from the times when he kicks off and tries bullying me/intimidating and then I have all the physical symptoms that I did when I was still living with him. Heart racing, feel sick, then overly emotional afterwards.
That is my main aim at the moment. To stop him having the power to knock me off kilter still and it's bloody hard.

Charlotte, my FW was the same with the 'perfect family life' thing (and funnily enough, if it wasn't perfect it was someone else's fault, not his). Things will be strange for you as you adjust to him being there but you not being there (ifkwim). Take it slowly and don't expect too much from yourself.

Leclerc, glad you had a good time! Am well jell of your night out! I am going out for dinner with my friend tomorrow night (ha! DS2 permitting...), but I don't think it will be quite the same - she wont be drinking (driving, and doesn't really drink anyway), and probably few lumber opportunities. But that's ok, just leaving the house in the evening will be a buzz!

Nini - I came to bed earlier, and thought of you!!! I thought, when I was with FW, I sat on the sofa beside him night after night, not able to be on my computer (because he wanted to nose at everything I did, or made snidey remarks about me looking up old boyfriends etc), not able to watch what I wanted on the TV because FW monopolised the remote, not able to go to bed early because FW got mardy (presumably because it meant I'd be asleep when he came to bed, so definitely no 'action'), couldn't stay up late because FW got mardy (again, presumably because he'd be asleep when I came to bed, so no action).
But tonight, I've sat and done my own thing - pottered on the computer, written some family Christmas cards, then decided to go to bed with the laptop, a cup of tea and some toast. It was my decision to do that, and a decision I was free to make. I'll sit here as long as I want, put the light out when I want. It really is the small things like this that give me pleasure, being in such stark contrast to how they were before. Yes, I now live in a flat instead of my lovely, large 5-bed house, so all shopping (and bin bags full of my stuff from the house, courtesy of FW) have to be humphed up 3 flights of stairs. Yes, it's a pain that there's no garden for drying clothes and for the kids to play in. But it's no contest - I'd rather be where I am now than where I was a year ago.

Anyway, night all - it's nearly Monday, hang on in there.

I am afraid I would have to give up hope if I was made to return to the so-called 'life' I existed in before I left

struggling for money, support and all the challenges that can come with lone parenting, were awful, but then I didn't have MN to get all the information and advice that I needed and just had to find a way through for myself, but I did it. I couldn't bear the way that my DC saw the dynamic between parents (and the damage for the altered course of development as a result).

I have peace here now, we do not live a half life of worrying about the impact of his worries on us, and where that might lead. We can relax, properly! I've swept up all the eggshells and thrown them on the fire. and I can work on being a real parent rather than a wraith!

I have grown enormously I know still a long way to go since I ended it and marched out with DC, I don't think I could have come to terms with all these things with him still here.

Very inspirational stories, brave ladies - pony yyy to having your own space. FW has gone to bed now, so I have returned downstairs to warmth and telly, such a joy even though still under seige in that we're under same roof. I hope I get your courage soon.

Fi, that's it exactly - living a half-life, and being a wraith. They sum it up exactly. It's not living, it's just existing, getting by day-to-day, surviving. I was a shadow of who I was, I was not someone I recognised at all. I'm not back yet, not fully, but getting there.

trying - glad you've got some warmth and tv for company. I don't know about me having courage. I still don't know what it was that made me leave that day, above all the other days including some when the levels of abuse were much worse. Something just snapped. My decision was made on a spur. I think you are braver, because you are facing your situation and have taken the decision to leave and are actively planning it. I couldn't face making that decision. But you have done. You have the courage, in spades my gal!

Thank you, pony for your lovely words of encouragement xxx

Inspirational indeed ladies - your bravery and courage really keeps us ladies that are still trapped going and planning xx

Nini I often ask myself the same when think of having to give up my beautiful co-owned home (that I mostly decorated etc) and having to flee to a rented house somewhere and begin again - to never be able to afford to buy another home alone, to struggle with being a single mum on benefits until I can get back on my feet and get my career back that FW but a stop to , to live with that stigma of being a single parent and having to announce the news to others that think FW is a legend etc etc BUT then I think a home should be a happy place - NO? Its not here, not been for a long long time - if ever - and I realise all the decorating, buying home stuff that I have done over the past 13 years and it was a lot was done to try and improve the home in order to please FW and make him change towards me, always felt as though nothing I ever did was good enough. Re the single parent stuff, yes he does help now, but I mostly feel like I am a single parent anyway but have to cope with his crap on top of it all and its bloody hard. I would love to just be able to concentrate my energy on my DC and myself and not for once be zombie sad mummy thats too tired to play because of FWs behaviour. He happily snores away every night and I lie awake worrying, fretting about it all. Its no life for me and he doesn't give two shits.

And if I find myself getting a double wobble on, I just look at my DMums life. She stayed with my EA dad her whole life, still is with him. She doesn't go out socialising and missed out on being a fantastic teacher as my FW dad wouldn't let her train in their earlier lives. She really does not have any life to be blunt, has since got better for her since I had my DC as she focuses her attention on them now but she still isn't happy with my dad.

Me and DBro so wished she had the courage to leave him when we were young, we would have all been so much happier, we begged her often during our teen years when we understood more but she didn't go - she felt it better to keep the family together in the family home. I say 100% if it had been a choice for me and DBro to live in a cramped bedsit with DMum alone or stay as a family in our lovely big family home with our dad, toys, tv etc we would have chosen the bedsit every single time. The effect and damage it has had on me and DBro is evident right here - both of us in FW relationships continuing the pattern and still not recovered from our childhoods. My DMum didn't realise it until recently what damage it had done her staying and how much we hate our dad (even though we pretend not to because in our 30s we are still scared of him). When growing up I used to get so angry and upset that she allowed us - her children - to be in the middle of the awful EA situations that occurred frequently. Our school work suffered, our social skills, DBro got bullied at school etc etc. Often we wouldn't be able to sleep as could hear him roaring at my Dmum for no reason, pestering her for sex etc so used to be zombies going to school the next morning. I remember more than anything, over the upset and anger about it all it just being so very confusing for me, especially when I started dating boys, I never could understand why if my dad loved my mum he would say treat her like that, I guess I just normalised it and thought thats how I should be treated too. Now in the same position myself with two little DC and know how hard it is to leave I will admit i did lose respect for my DMum for not protecting us from it all or even trying to leave and save us from it all, I see the same damage happening to my little ones now and they are still so very young. The anger, confusion, clinging to mummy coming through. It makes me so sad and I panic as I recognise the effects from my own childhood and see them mirrored in my own DC, this spurs me on as I can't let them end up like me and DBro. Despite all of this and us trying to explain to my DMum, she still tries to make me doubt myself about leaving asking if I am making the right decision breaking up my family, maybe FW will change in a few years like my dad did etc etc. She still does not really get it - the lasting damage the abuse has on children

I guess what I trying to say is, everyones situation is different but when it comes to DC being exposed to this horrible abuse does have an effect on them and continues well into their adulthood

Opppppsss- this was only suppose to be a quick post, sorry for massiveooo posting!! Happy week ahead to all I hope xxx

Hi Leclerc! Sorry meant to say in my last post that I hope DD2 is still being ok with you? Just a thought, do you think you will be able to get some one on one time with her during the week-take her out for a treat maybe or make her go with you if you have to pop out and can leave other DC? So you can make her feel important, that you need her etc etc. Just hope FW isn't trying to turn her against you by giving her extra attention/compliments as he knows you have your hands really full already with DD1s probs and DSs wanting attention too. We know how these crazy FWs minds work hey? Stop at nothing to hurt us, even if its playing with DCs emotions just to get at us. Sorry, am just thinking out loud and not sleeping very well yet again! X

Good morning all

Off to see the dv team in 20mins. I feel sick.

Wishing you well, matchsticks I am sure it's the right thing and progress for you.

Bollocks just lost a long post....

Was saying to Maggie I am so sorry to hear about your and your dbro's difficult childhood and unhappiness and also to thank you for your words because they gave me more courage for my own decision making. Also wanted to say that you are a fantastic mum because you are aware of the possible issues and are on the alert to protect your dcs. Your dcs are very lucky to have such a great mum

Leclerc is your rabbit controlling?

Silvertinsel what a beautiful nn, love it

Match lots of support and virtual handholding and hugs to you. Good luck my love. You're doing such a strong and positive thing today.

Well hello....

Morning all - loving the Crimbo feelings from Silvertinsel and TryTwinkle.

Matchsticks, thinking of you, let us know how it goes.

Maggie - that was a great post, really eye-opening. It's the effects of EA in action. I have two DSDs who I worry are normalising their dad's behaviour. It's a real concern as to how their dad's behaviour has skewed their perspective on what's reasonable in relationships. Even as you say, Maggie, you can hate your own experience, but somehow it just seeps in there and affects things. But you are doing what needs to be done to protect your own lovlies. You're getting there.

Leclerc - hope you get your cable sorted soon. (Although I must confess I snorted with laughter at your rabbit eating the cable, it was just such an unexpected sentence... Sorry!!!! )