(Now Ex) DP theatened to harm our dogs

[LulaDoesTheHula]

My now ex DP and I had been struggling with our relationship for quite some months, it all came to a head recently when, after he'd had quite a bit to drink (we'd been out for the evening with family), he became verbally abusive to me (not the first time, I should add). As a family member was present, and it was rather awkward in front of him, I asked him to calm down and we'd discuss it the next day. I thought this was the end of it, and my relative went to bed. But no, my ex DP went to the kitchen, picked up a glass and smashed it in front of me (this has happened before too).

He carried on ranting at me, at which point I (in a still very calm manner) said that I was worried about his recent behaviour, and that one or two friends were too (I probably shouldn't have provoked him any more, but I think I felt I had nothing to lose anymore and I was desperate for him to realise the problem isn't in my head). I should mention he has never physically hurt me.

He went berserk at this point, walked to the kitchen and came back with a massive kitchen knife. I was sat in the corner of the sofa so had no escape, he held it in front of me and said if I didn't tell him who had said these things he would cut the dogs' throats :(

At this point I screamed and my relative came running. He managed to diffuse the situation and we left temporarily with the dogs. He has since moved out and admitted he went "a bit over the top" but seems to have no grasp of the severity of the situation or that it's not alright that he threatened me or to kill the dogs. I (rather stupidly, I know... but I am planning to) have not reported this to the police yet.

I am safe, away from the home we shared, and he doesn't know where I am. Tonight I am planning to go with a friend to collect the dogs (he had them over the weekend and has dropped them off at home for me, as I let him think I am still living there so that I could get them safely away from him tonight).

Now, the problem is, is that one of the dogs was his before we met, the other is very much mine, but they have come to be shared pets. We agreed early on when this all blew up that the dogs should stay together as mine suffers from separation anxiety when left alone, and they are very much like sisters. In his job he goes away for long periods of time and cannot have the dogs with him, nor where he is living. I am also mindful of the fact that he has threatened to hurt them to get at me, I am petrified of this happening again. I will be happier once I have the dogs in my care, but am not sure what to do re arrangements long term. I realise to him it will look like I am 'stealing' the dogs as he won't know where I am staying. I have been their main carer for the past two years and can also take both dogs with me to work every day, so to me it makes sense that I have them, for now at least.

He is already saying we need to decide where the dogs are going and with whom over Christmas and New Year :/ I am stalling for now until I have the dogs safe, saying I don't know my plans yet. His family are all in the picture and being incredibly supportive, and say that they feel the dogs would be better off with me, at least until he has admitted he has problems and has sought help.

Can anyone please give me some advice on how to handle this? Thank you!

I am going to deactivate my Facebook account for now. Am also downloading all messages to my email account for future reference if required. I will also get my phone number changed. (My phone company said they don't block numbers even with a crime reference number, but can give me a new number for free instead)

I'd just leave it. As they've said, it's a civil matter, not really one for the police. Once you've got the injunction or non-mol in place, you could phone to let them know, but otherwise I'd concentrate on making sure your ex and his mother cannot contact you at all.

He has already been told by 'my' police force whose safeguarding team I am under, that if he contacts me or my friend again he will be arrested. His mother is on thin ice too, having received a phone call last night from them as well.

Good idea, make sure you've got screenshots/copies of all messages from him and his mother. Print copies out if you can.

Go through your phone and make a list of the really important, trustworthy contacts. When you've got your new number, text them all explaining what's been happening and how important it is that your ex does not get your number at all. Only the really close and trustworthy contacts, you don't want him seeing an acquaintance and giving them a sob story about having lost his phone and needing to get in touch with you.

The ironic thing is, if he'd calmed down after he'd been arrested, shown some remorse and was making steps to sort his temper and other problems out I might have had some respect for him and been more amenable re the dogs. However, his persistent attempts to harass me, coupled with his mother joining in (having asked her not to!), have made me even more sure that I do not want any contact with him.

Exactly, he's shown his true colours with the violence, threats and harassing you (and getting his mummy to join in). You've been really strong in not giving in to their bloody mental demands.

For all you guys who have been amazing!!!

Right, who's going to join me for a ? Ok, maybe a little early, but lunchtime's not far off...

I am sure I will need more advice but just wanted to say I can not stress enough how helpful you've all been to me, at a time when I've not known where to turn, don't know who to trust, and generally feel totally lost about everything!

OMG his mother is calling me right now!!!!!!!!!!

Ignore, ignore, ignore. When it stops ringing, phone the police. She needs a rocket put under her.

Another thing - if he was really bothered about the dogs, surely it would be him phoning all the time? All you've had is his mother chasing after you, giving you emotional blackmail about her poor ickle boy. He's really not bothered, it's you that he wants. He's an idiot.

Ignore. Then phone the police. Do NOT engage with her.

For god's sake!!! She has left me a long voicemail message.

The gist of it is that she is waiting to hear from me, as they want to go home with the dogs (or just one, at least) today and she needs to leave soon. She is telling me not to be silly, to give the dog up or it will end up with a solicitor and when he wins I will have to pay his costs (is this the case? I qualify for Legal Aid I believe as I am on JSA for now). She is telling me I am not very well so this stress will be affecting my health (how does she know I am not well, I am fine, just tired of all this!). She said I can make the difference between everyone having an awful Christmas or a good one. She is generally making out that I am being a spiteful bitch and need to hand the dog over asap.

Emotional blackmail, needless pressure, trying to make you take some kind of imaginary blame and make you think you're "not well" so you don't trust yourself. She is a nasty piece of work, just like her son.

Please phone the police, or go to the station and let them hear the latest voicemail. You can stop this by going to the police, she's overstepped so many lines it's not even funny.

Please don't take any notice of what she's saying. She's trying to make you feel unsure of yourself, so you'll give in and think they're the best people to have the dogs. It probably counts as gas lighting, a form of emotional abuse. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree in that family, does it?

I was actually thinking if I were in your position then I'd follow the police advice, as surely ex wouldn't dare to do anything with them keeping an eye on them so to speak; mainly to keep the police "onside" more than anything, so they have you down as the co-operative type. I don't believe it will really make the ex calm down to have his bow-wow for Christmas (he's not 4!) but would it really do any harm? (Horrible consequences for the dog if it does, but fairly unlikely in these circumstances.)

BUT then you posted those messages from his mother, which are a bit chilling. Reading between the lines, they're all about maintaining contact through the dogs, don't you see? (There's also a veiled threat in there with "he could have fetched it at any time" IMO.) He's talking about you minding his dog while he's working, him coming and seeing it while he's not. That means dropping round whenever he fancies, for contact with the dog, oh yeah, and it just so happens the dog lives with his ex girlfriend to whom he was abusive and aggressive. He'll even pay for their food... so he has a right to keep dropping round. Because you're a fair-minded person and it would be just wrong to keep a man away from his dog when he's even paying for it, right?

Plus I would be extremely surprised if the police were any help at all if ex refused to hand the dog back. It is, after all, as they say, a civil matter; possible they can't actually intervene (not sure where you'd stand there). So you would have to be the one going to court to get it back, which as you've said you can't afford. However, I have to say the most likely scenario is that he would, but then use it as an excuse to stay in your life. Then you'd be on a stickier wicket for refusing later on, because you would have been seen to have allowed access several times after he allegedly threatened to kill them.

Also note police talking about one dog, which arguably belongs, or more to the point used to belong, to ex, but mother is talking about both, one of whom is more clearly yours. Much bigger bargaining chip there.

Not trying to make your mind up for you here, don't envy your dilemma one bit, but I'm leaning towards the side of not going along with it.

Dammit, missed a pageful while taking my sweet time over composing that... if you get back to the police, letting them know about this latest, clearly threatening, voicemail I would point out in words of one syllable or less that you do not believe for one moment that this is really an issue about dogs, and that giving in to them on this occasion isn't going to help at all. Because there'll be another drama in a couple of weeks when it comes time to hand it/them back, and another again next time he feels like he can't survive a moment longer without having his dog to visit... it won't end. It's a control thing. It's about proving he can make you do what he wants. If he gave a shit about the actual animal he wouldn't have treated it like Sid in Toy Story treats his toys.

Morning Lula,

Glad to see others have been on here advising you to stay away from these bullies.

They do not have a legal leg to stand on this is all just intimidation and threats.

Record everything as others have said.

Block them, change your number, remove them from your life.

You are doing so well, stay strong.

X

Have spoken to a lovely PC who is now handling the matter until the sergeant is back on duty tonight. He was v concerned. Said he is going to phone the mother again and come down on her like a ton of bricks

He said this is v clearly harassment and that I am within my rights to keep the dog, as it's a civil matter. I explained how it would be used as a bargaining tool and he completely agreed. Said to have no contact with them at all, and even if it does go the legal route through the courts it will protect me from having to be in touch with them directly. He that might be far less stressful than playing pass the parcel with the dog! He is calling me back shortly.

Yay! What a nice polices.

The mother said in her message that if he wins the case I'd have to pay his costs. If I am eligible for Legal Aid is that still the case does anyone know? I am still keeping the dog for now, my stance hasn't changed, don't worry, am just curious!

Lula, Sorry I was a bit tipsy last night.

Change that number ASAP, the relief will be instantaneous, no more calls, no more messages.

My X is abusive, but he can come across as the nicest person on earth, (a Court Officials words were 'yes he nice, charming, too nice, evil) some Officers cannot see through this, the amount of times I have called the police, then gone to his house and him and his g/friend have totally twisted events, the the police have came back and made me feel like a complete idiot is unbelievable.

I no longer deal with the 'normal police' I only ever call up the Domestic Violence Officer, you should have one of these Officers also, mine doesn't work weekends but he is there Monday-Friday.

Get back onto your Service Provider change numbers, calls you friends/family or text them with new number and block them out, please!

Also stop worrying about Court, you should be eligible for Legal Aid and from what you have said IMO he has no chance of getting those dogs, Court or not!

Start blocking them now!!! No Contact all the way, it works wonders!

That's another threat Lula, block them, I do not the legal in and outs but I think not, and if you did you can offer to pay up at £5.00 per fortnight, but why would that happen?

He is in the wrong here not you, the paperwork is in your name, he is kicking and throwing the dog around, please do not listen to them, they are intimidating you in every way possible!

Lula just checked the legal stuff online found similar situation to yours here they quote a dog law expert called Trevor Cooper his site is here. You could contact him for free preliminary legal advice, they won't be able to get a case going against you that quickly. If you read what the forum said, if he doesn't have a receipt and all the other stuff is in your name then he does not have a legal to stand on. To cover yourself further if you report his abuse of the dogs to the RSPCA they can provide a letter for the court recommending that he not be left in charge of the animals, they may even be able to prosecute, but this is something you can ask them about.

Keep meaning to tell you, I LOVE your name, *Wanking" Hope you enjoyed your drinkies! Honestly, this all this is driving me to drink at the moment. Although most days I've been too tired and trying to keep a clear head about things so have stayed off the booze!

Don'tYouJingle, thank you so much for that link. I think I might have seen that case before when I did some research early on to suss out my rights. I am going to have another look and then start putting a plan of action together, including sounding out the RSPCA. I think I have the strength to fight this all the way. How can he care for the dog when he's going away for seven months next year?!

This is a flipping nightmare! Though not half as bad as him having the dogs and me worrying about if they are ok!

I was just googling to see if there was any helpful answer online, and blow me - look at this, the fifth paragraph exactly describes your situation! Here's another helpful site www.doglaw.co.uk/custody.php. A quick glance at a few others suggests that microchipping is not in itself proof of ownership, although it may be taken into consideration. Nothing about the costs, except to say that it can escalate to stupid amounts, but I guess if it was dealt with in the small claims court it wouldn't cost very much at all. I think it's up to the discretion of the court which way costs are awarded, but don't quote me on that. (Try posting on the MN Legal forum?)

I have a feeling Lula that once they realise that their threats and intimidation aren't working that they might not even bother with a court case.

Your ex DP doesn't really care about the dogs, once he sees his attempts to draw you back into contact have failed he will likely go and find some other poor woman to control.