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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

(Now Ex) DP theatened to harm our dogs

252 replies

LulaDoesTheHula · 09/12/2012 15:06

My now ex DP and I had been struggling with our relationship for quite some months, it all came to a head recently when, after he'd had quite a bit to drink (we'd been out for the evening with family), he became verbally abusive to me (not the first time, I should add). As a family member was present, and it was rather awkward in front of him, I asked him to calm down and we'd discuss it the next day. I thought this was the end of it, and my relative went to bed. But no, my ex DP went to the kitchen, picked up a glass and smashed it in front of me (this has happened before too).

He carried on ranting at me, at which point I (in a still very calm manner) said that I was worried about his recent behaviour, and that one or two friends were too (I probably shouldn't have provoked him any more, but I think I felt I had nothing to lose anymore and I was desperate for him to realise the problem isn't in my head). I should mention he has never physically hurt me.

He went berserk at this point, walked to the kitchen and came back with a massive kitchen knife. I was sat in the corner of the sofa so had no escape, he held it in front of me and said if I didn't tell him who had said these things he would cut the dogs' throats :(

At this point I screamed and my relative came running. He managed to diffuse the situation and we left temporarily with the dogs. He has since moved out and admitted he went "a bit over the top" but seems to have no grasp of the severity of the situation or that it's not alright that he threatened me or to kill the dogs. I (rather stupidly, I know... but I am planning to) have not reported this to the police yet.

I am safe, away from the home we shared, and he doesn't know where I am. Tonight I am planning to go with a friend to collect the dogs (he had them over the weekend and has dropped them off at home for me, as I let him think I am still living there so that I could get them safely away from him tonight).

Now, the problem is, is that one of the dogs was his before we met, the other is very much mine, but they have come to be shared pets. We agreed early on when this all blew up that the dogs should stay together as mine suffers from separation anxiety when left alone, and they are very much like sisters. In his job he goes away for long periods of time and cannot have the dogs with him, nor where he is living. I am also mindful of the fact that he has threatened to hurt them to get at me, I am petrified of this happening again. I will be happier once I have the dogs in my care, but am not sure what to do re arrangements long term. I realise to him it will look like I am 'stealing' the dogs as he won't know where I am staying. I have been their main carer for the past two years and can also take both dogs with me to work every day, so to me it makes sense that I have them, for now at least.

He is already saying we need to decide where the dogs are going and with whom over Christmas and New Year :/ I am stalling for now until I have the dogs safe, saying I don't know my plans yet. His family are all in the picture and being incredibly supportive, and say that they feel the dogs would be better off with me, at least until he has admitted he has problems and has sought help.

Can anyone please give me some advice on how to handle this? Thank you! Xmas Confused

OP posts:
WankinginaWinterWonderland · 22/12/2012 01:59

Lula

Your last post sounds like you feel you need to prove something, you do not!!!

You sound very different to earlier today, I thought it was because of police,if it is not for police and it is for THEM...don't!!

If you do want to drop off a dog for while,can a friend do it? Is the dog safe? please do not do this if you are being bullied into it!

WankinginaWinterWonderland · 22/12/2012 02:00

don't

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza · 22/12/2012 02:09

I actually think the police sargeant has given you terrible advice.

it would show my human side too You don't need to show your human side. Your relationship with your ex is over.

at least it will keep him away from the area for a couple of weeks to let me get myself sorted You shouldn't have to give away your dog to be allowed to rebuild your life in peace. The law is there to allow you to do that. You don't need to put the dog at risk (and even if you don't think he will be able to hurt the dog the dog is still at serious risk of being permanently separated from his owner and his doggie companion).

Seriously this is a terrible idea. Just tell them to LEAVE YOU ALONE. He is never going to see you or the dogs again and the law will force him to accept that if he can't.

MrsTomHardy · 22/12/2012 05:45

Sorry but I also think its s terrible idea.

FiercePanda · 22/12/2012 06:03

You're almost free of him and you want to erase all the stress and hard work endured by you and your friends by giving him "access" to one of the dogs he threatened to kill?!Confused

I think you would be mad to agree. Can't you see, he doesn't care about the dog, this is about him getting back in contact and control over you?

A dog is not a child. He doesn't need access. Legally he hasn't got a leg to stand on; he wants the dogs kept together but he cannot provide suitable accommodation for them, he works away for weeks at a time, your name is on all documents relating to both dogs, oh, and HE THREATENED TO KILL THEM. Angry

Block him and his loon of a mother from Facebook, block their phone numbers, stop having contact using the police as a middle man. Take out an injunction and enjoy having him out of your life. You are responsible for the dogs, do not put one of them at risk just so you're seen to be "human" - you do not owe your ex anything, this is all manipulation on his part and you would be irresponsible to give in.

Tiredtrout · 22/12/2012 06:13

I've been dipping in and out of this thread for a little while to see what's happening. You have been given quite bad advice by the sgt last night and as for the one that said it wasn't harassment I wouldn't want him as my superviser making judgements like that!

As long as you have not been responding to their messages you have a full case of harassment. They would already be at the arrest able point if this is the case. Best practice is that harassment warning are issued prior to going down the arrest route in person and it should be accompanied with paperwork that should be signed by them and the officer, at least that's how my area do it. Refusal to accept doesn't mean it hasn't bee issued. Threatening to hurt the dogs can be dealt with as a different offence of threatening to commit criminal damage.

Please don't let him have one or both of the dogs over Christmas to appease him. It would just give him an in, this would mean that he has a reason to resume contact, he could refuse to return it, it's awful advice

Tiredtrout · 22/12/2012 06:52

Also you should have been given a crime report number, contact your mobile phone provider and get them blocked, block them on Facebook, delete anyone that is his friend too and set your privacy settings to friends only. Then go to ncdv.org.uk and look into getting a non molestation order through them. I hope you have a good day with your dogs

AgathaHoHoHo · 22/12/2012 07:13

I agree with others who have said don't let him have the dog, but you have to do what's right for you.

Just a thought though, if they do take the dog for a couple of weeks, it gives them a legitimate reason to maintain contact with you through this time (updates on dog, return plans or not) and in the future (further visits for dog etc). I'm not sure that for the long term this makes it a good plan. For this reason, I think you should either keep the dog with you and cease ALL contact, which includes change of phone number (you can let others know your new number very easily) and blocking them on facebook. Or, give him the dog and state you will not be taking it back.

GColdtimer · 22/12/2012 08:38

Lula I too think the pice have given you terrible advice. This will not stop after Christmas if you send the dog back with him for a couple if weeks. Change your number, block on fb, pin down your privacy settings and focus in rebuilding your life. The dogs are legally yours. He threatened to kill them. He signed away all rights at that point. You are trying to reason with the unreasonable.

You sound amazing. Stay strong.

LulaDoesTheHula · 22/12/2012 09:24

Thanks so much everyone for your continued support. I was overwhelmed by all the responses when I came online just now! I had rather a sleepless night and woke up with the two dogs cuddled next to me :)

I had a message from a friend too, worrying for me: "As I said before he's conspiring to get his way, seems to be working now he's enlisted his mother. Seek police advice from another party."

I think I need to remember the facts, as you are all pointing out:

  1. He said to the police when he was arrested that the dogs were best off with me (and this doesn't mean he automatically has visitation rights).
  1. He threatened to kill them :( and I don't like the way he sometimes treats them.
  1. He cannot have a dog in his current accommodation, goes away for long periods and at short notice.
  1. He has carried out a persistent campaign of harassment, with his mother not helping matters (I am sure later he will blame her for a lot of this, as he often does - including blaming his marriage break up some years ago on his mother meddling).
  1. I've still not received a satisfactory response from the arresting police force regarding any follow up about his mental health or how they handled the whole case.

However, I think the one thing niggling at me is that he had one of the dogs for about a year before I met him, and had him from a puppy, so it could be proven in court that the dog belongs to him not me. I don't believe he has any paperwork regarding 'ownership', as he just got it from a farm. I don't know how these things work though. As I could also prove (and it is quite obvious) they he cannot sufficiently care for a dog in his job. Coupled with the fact that "my" dog suffers separation anxiety when she's away from "his" dog. I feel for him, I do, I am only human. I would be devastated if the dogs were to be taken away from me and it breaks my heart to think I am inflicting this hurt on someone else :( I feel like the most spiteful bitch in the world and am sure I am going to be painted as this character by him to anyone who will listen.

I don't know what to do. The police have said they can only advise, as it is a civil matter. The next step would be he takes me to court, which I cannot afford.

OP posts:
LulaDoesTheHula · 22/12/2012 09:41

I just looked back at some messages from his mother this week:

"Just heard from exP, he said that of course he'd give you both dogs back, why wouldn't he? He said that he could have fetched Dog A at anytime, but you both agreed to keep the two together. He's adamant he will give you both dogs back, he said their happiness and your health is uppermost in his mind."

"He's glad that you could look after Dog A during the week when he's working and he can see them when he's not, that's all he wants, oh! and he wants to pay for their food and upkeep, just like you would children."

So this is an admission that both dogs are best off with me, right?! But how can I agree to him seeing them when he's threatened to kill them? And also who does he think he is expecting to have them when he likes, i.e. when it's convenient for HIM, plus with free dog sitting during the week?! I might be working quite a bit during the week too and want to spend quality time with them at the weekends myself (which I would!). So he would get all the benefits of having a dog and none of the hard work. Plus he'd still have a hold over me if he was paying for them.

OP posts:
WeeWeeWeeAllTheWayHome · 22/12/2012 09:48

You are not a spiteful bitch! Whilst it's all very well imaging how you would feel if you were spearated from your dogs, it is not the same as you have never threatened to kill them. That alone suggests that his wanting to see them is not out of love but is actually an attempt to control you.

Lueji · 22/12/2012 09:49

Don't feel for him.
He doesn't care about the dog anymore that he cares about you.

If he doesn't get his way he'll soon forget about it.

He's just angry that you dared leaving him.

If he takes you to court you can represent yourself or then give him the dog.
I doubt he will.
Also note that as you have registered the dog and he said you should have it, that he effectively gave it to you.
The dog is not a child that needs to see his daddy.

So, stop feeling guilty. :)

FiercePanda · 22/12/2012 09:50

Please don't give in. There is nothing and no-one forcing you to keep up this contact through police etc; you're doing it because you're a decent person, but it's just prolonging the pain and means he can continue to harass you.

You know the dogs are better together.

You know he cannot look after them.

Your name is on all paperwork.

He threatened them and you with violence.

Seriously, get a free half hour with a solicitor and enquire about an injunction/non-molestation order. He can be legally forced to leave you and the dogs alone, as can his mother. They both need to be cut out of your life for good, but if you start allowing him "access" it will make things worse.

Let him threaten court, he hasn't got a leg to stand on and he knows it. It is all about keeping you under his control. Please don't let him win.

LulaDoesTheHula · 22/12/2012 09:55

OK, thank you guys. I am just wondering what if he calls on witnesses who can testify he had the dog before he met me?

Although, equally, I have witnesses who have seen the way he treats the dogs. I even have an email from his own mother saying she "hates the way he treats the dogs".

I think I am genuinely scared, I have never had any dealings with the law before, and even the word 'court' scares the hell out of me. I think I would feel better about making a decision if I was certain I had the stronger case.

OP posts:
aufaniae · 22/12/2012 09:57

Sorry, I don't mean to make you paranoid, but I just have a little niggling thought - are you sure the sergeant is who he says he is, and not a mate of your exes?

LulaDoesTheHula · 22/12/2012 10:00

Yes, am sure he is definitely the police - I called him back via 101 at one point.

OP posts:
ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 22/12/2012 10:01

I think he is trying to control you through the dogs.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers · 22/12/2012 10:01

If he does it will be witness against witness I am sure. The suggestion to consult a solicitor for a free half hour is a great one.

LulaDoesTheHula · 22/12/2012 10:05

Oh god, why did this have to happen the weekend before Christmas?! Not sure how I can get any legal advice sorted before the New Year Xmas Confused.

Am feeling stressed and rushed over all of this now :( not by you guys, by the police and him and his mother!

OP posts:
Lueji · 22/12/2012 10:10

For all you know the sgt is also an abusive twat.

I have had enough stupidity from my local police force.

You should really do the opposite. Cut off all contact and get a non molestation order.

You are the victim here.

Lueji · 22/12/2012 10:14

First get phone sorted, then fb.

And hopefully they'll want to have a quiet Christmas and only come back after, if they haven't given up by then.

MrsTomHardy · 22/12/2012 10:29

Just do nothing....you've got the dogs, just get on with your life.
Block their numbers on your phone, block them on fb etc.

Log everything.

It's his call what moves he makes next, hopefully he'll get bored and give up when he see's your not giving in to him.

FiercePanda · 22/12/2012 10:31

Totally agree with Lueji.

Block them (properly block them, don't just delete and hope they get the message) on FB, and set your privacy settings so that only friends can see your updates. (Even better, delete your FB account entirely Grin ).

Phone your mobile provider, give them your crime reference number and ask that his mum, his friends and his numbers are all blocked from contacting you. If you haven't got a crime reference number, phone 101, explain your case and ask for it.

Phone Citizen's Advice Bureau or go through the phone book and phone all local solicitors and ask for a free half hour asap. They'll be able to advise you on what you can do to legally make sure him and his mother cannot contact you or the dogs again. If either of them break the injunction/non-molestation order, they can and will be arrested. Once you've done this, you'll be able to relax at last and enjoy Christmas.

Remember - he is not bothered about the dogs, no matter what he's telling his mum. This is all about his anger because you dared to stand up to him and leave. He doesn't want to see the dog, he just wants a way to worm himself back into your life. Please don't entertain any notion of park drop-offs, weekend access, happy dogs with "mummy and daddy"... they're dogs, not children, they don't need to see a man who thinks nothing of pinning them down, throwing them across rooms and making them submit. You have to be the responsible owner and do what's best for their welfare, and that's staying with you far away from him.

LulaDoesTheHula · 22/12/2012 10:32

The police were expecting to hear back from me. Should I contact them and let them know my decision or just leave it?

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