What was this?

[Mollydoggerson]

Husband and wife visit husband's relatives for an overnight stay, the related person keeps popping in and out, while the spouse of the related person keeps pouring alcohol. Eventually the wife realises she is really drink and plods off to bed. The following morning the wife realises the husband joined her shortly after and had sex with her. The wife was more drunk than the husband as she had been drinking rose wine whereas the husband had been drinking beer.

Wife has no relocation of anything beyond plodding off to bed, but knows there was sex as husband confirms same the following morning and it is obvious the following morning.

Is this wrong or just a weird thing that happened?

Do you fancy me? or do you want my mind?

shitter, tell me or my heart shall be broken

Totally agree with Clipped. If the OP was too drunk to give consent it was rape. OP you are perfectly entitled to feel like you do. Your husband categorically should not have done this to you.

And I am really surprised at the responses on here. Especially the ones asking about their sex life in general as if that has anything to do with it. It doesn't.

Btw that second sentence comes across that I may doubt the OPs versionof events. I don't. It was bad phrasing on my part. I meant more that if any woman is too drunk to consent then it is rape.

OP was too drunk to consent. Her husband should not have had sex with her.

The only specific questions re sex life are in response to clipped insisting this was a punishment for OP withholding sex - which OP hasn't said herself.

Re the rest - no-one has said it would be ok if thats what's happened - only one poster has been insisting she knows exactly what happened, on behalf if the OP, misquoting and saying that the OP has said things that the OP simply hasnt - not helpful and massively disempowering for OP.

Molly - I hope you got some sleep last night. Good luck finding your feet again and working through your feelings about that night. I hope you find sone resolution whatever you decide. I was thinking of you this morning and how hard it must be - to have the foundations of your marriage/life completely shaken. X

Casmama, vigglewiggle, Amazonian all asked about sex and said it could cast a different light on it.

A man who respects women does not have sex with them when they are so drunk they have gone to bed early. And someone so drunk that they can't remember what happened would have been in no state to give consent. And if men were truly afraid of being wrongly accused of rape they would not have sex (rape) drunk women and would ensure consent.

This is a man who felt entitled to have sex with his wife regardless of her state and consent.

Molly, if you are still reading and want some RL support ring Rape Crisis. You will be able to talk to someone confidentially. I hope you are alright this morning.

Hello all
Just a little Christmassy peace and love and remembering that, if there's one thing we could all do with, it's some moral support

The OP cannot remember if she gave consent. That is different from definitely not giving consent. I have done things when i have been drinking that i don't remember, but friends will tell me the next day and i'll have no recollection. To be calling the OP's husband a rapist when you could not possibly know is unfair.

Whilst i completely understand that it could have been rape, there is also the possibility of it not being rape. I think your husbands reaction the next day would demonstrate that he thought it to be consensual.

In the end OP, only you know how you feel about this, and it is entirely up to you how you deal with it.

"The OP cannot remember if she gave consent. That is different from definitely not giving consent."

No it isn't. And crucially legally it isn't either.

Are you saying that someone can be convicted of rape even if someone is unsure/can't remember if it consensual or not?

No the law is saying that if someone is too drunk to consent it is rape. The onus is on the man to prove consent. If you don't want to rape someone don't have sex with someone who is very drunk.

Rape Myths

It is covered quite nicely on the above link puds.

Ok i see what your saying. I was not aware of that.

Thats a good link, thank you.

I think we need to remember that this is the OPs husband. A man she loved enough to marry. Yes the law is clear and the OP feels uneasy about it, and sadly it was rape. Them being married does not excuse it at all.

BUT, if this had been me and my DP I wouldnt have given it a second thought. I know he loves me and would never hurt me.

When posters asked about the relationship previous to this, they werent saying it wasnt rape. Or that it was ok. They were trying to help the OP work out the thoughts in her head to see why she felt this way.

You are entitled to feel that. Just as the OP is entitled to be upset and disgusted/wary of her husband because he did. The state of their sex life prior to that has no relevance whatsoever. And to suggest she is only feeling like this because of the state of their sex life and not because of what he did is invalidating her feelings.

How he behaved prior to this may establish how long abuse had been going on in the relationship and what brought it to this point, which is what Clipped was trying to ascertain.

wanna, its much easier for posters to forget this is actually someones life and keep banging their own personal agendas.

I am truly shocked by the lack of empathy on this thread, from people who think they are helping.

Clipped was not trying to ascertain anything, she had already DECIDED what had happened and put words into the OPs posts that the OP had in fact not said.

Yes I agree timeforachange the lack of empathy is staggering. Suggesting that the OP only feels like she does because of the state of her sex like is pretty shocking and victim blaming.

Clipped was not blaming the victim in any sense and therefore was extremely empathetic. She may or may not have the reason wrong, but the fact is she told the OP on numerous occassions that she was not to blame. Which no-one else did. That is pretty empathetic.

I am leaving this thread now. As clearly I am causing more problems than solving.

Molly I hope you are OK. Please ring Rape Crisis. Speaking to someone in RL maybe easier than explaining or trying to get your fears across over the internet.

Best wishes.

Suggesting that the OP only feels like she does because of the state of her sex like is pretty shocking and victim blaming.

I've just gone back over the whole thread - twice - and I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to at all.

I have no legal knowledge, but it strikes me as difficult to argue that if a woman is too drunk to remember, she was too drunk to consent. My observations around drunk people are that there is often a time window when they seem to be aware/part of what's going on but they don't remember the events the next day. So, how on earth can anyone judge whether consent was given? Again, it's all about context.

This thread has moved on somewhat since I last contributed, but I want to clarify a point for Abigail - I have been accused of bringing the OP's sex-life into the equation and by doing so 'victim-blaming'. Neither accusation is in any way true.

My post of 23:40 (to which I believe you are referring) is discussing the OP's lack of attraction to her husband not her sex-life per se. If you read my post properly, you would see that I was making the point that if she had been open about her feelings then this would, in my mind, add weight to her suspicion that he seized this opportunity to take advantage of her vulnerability and raped her. This is not victim-blaming in any way, I felt it was relevant in establishing her husband's state of mind when intercourse took place.

You seem to be saying that I was implying that if she didn't fancy her husband and didn't have regular sex with him then she was in some way to blame. That is wrong and deeply offensive and if the OP is still, by any remote chance, reading this thread, I want to make it clear that no-one on this thread is trying to lay blame at her door. Any questions that have been asked have been motivated by a desire to help the OP to answer her own question - "What was this?"

Good post vigglewiggle. I too am offended by the lazy presumptuousness of Abigail.
You feel free to dive on in there with no regard for the OPs individual circumstances or feelings and those of us who actually give a shit about her feelings will try and talk through what happened rather than "you don't remember- your husband is a rapist"
OP I hope you are ok and I'm so sorry that your thread has been derailed in this way.

agree with timeforachange