Calling his wife a cunt under his breath

[toomanydaisies]

• [Message from MNHQ: This thread was started in 2012. Just saying...]

Please give me advice.

My friend called me in tears just now. She and her husband had had an argument - but she said it was nothing major. He went off into their bedroom and called her a cunt under his breath.

Not the first time he's done this apparently.

She told him she'd heard and he wasn't apologetic - just said he was speaking to himself.

I think this is terrible. Is it emotional abuse? I just don't know what to say to my friend...

Brilliant post, Offred.

Yes. Excellent post

Offred: Of course people should set their own boundaries for their own interactions. But some posters on this thread are insisting that their definitions of the Bad Word are the only valid definitions and therefore the word must be taboo. It's the pro-censorship dead end of feminism, basically.

(It's also a common woman-hater tactic, especially among left-wing men, to get all Student Gwant about 'policitally incorrect' language when a woman disagrees with them...)

What if she called him a nob under her breath? Would you say she was abusive?

Yes, I have to say I don't find anything hilarious here either.
But then I've been on the receiving end of this type of behaviour

Its a word. For some people its, clearly, extremely offensive and a deal breaker. For others it depends on circumstances and for for another group its along the same lines as saying 'oh ffs'.

Basically whether its abusive or not depends on the situation and couple. People are allowed to feel differently and have different expectations. What's ok for one couple may not be on for another. Its life.

People would seriously end their marriage over this?

Where I'm from, the word cunt is used to describe men more often that it's used to describe women.

Offred it's the fact that we're being told that the use of this word in these circumstances (of which we know very little) must be abuse
Sorry, I find that ridiculous.

And I do know lots of women who jump on some kind of hysteria bandwagon at the mere utterance of the word without really thinking about it.. It's just 'the done thing' to say it's the most awful word ever. This exasperates and annoys me in equal measure and I find it difficult not to challenge this at every opportunity.

If someone has genuinely thought about it and still finds it offensive fair enough but I think this is often not the case.

My opinions on this (for further clarification as I've been called a 'minimiser of abuse' or some such nonsense upthread):
Name calling is not good and should be addressed but
We can't say someone is abusive or misogynistic based solely on the use of a single word because:

Some men are abusive and don't say cunt
Some men are abusive and do say cunt
Some men aren't abusive and don't say cunt
Some men aren't abusive and do say cunt

I don't swear much but when I do I can be a real potty mouth and I would use the word cunt as easily as I'd use the word dick or fuck or knob or bastard.. I've been a really potty mouth on this thread

I don't have a problem with the word cunt; I am partial to any swear word.

But I would have a big problem with my husband calling me names.

Calling someone a cunt is verbal abuse though. What people differ on is the significance of it. I don't think anybody could reasonably argue that it wasn't verbal abuse; how bad it is depends on the power behind it.

I think everyone is agreed that the husband shouldn't be calling the wife names..

If you have a good enough relationship with your partner that you're not upset when he calls you a cunt then lucky you.
For some of us it's very distressing, and sadly indicitive of wider issues and emotional abuse in our relationships.

Yeah, that's all I thought people were saying. It is the word "abuse" which got people's backs up BUT I think people need to get used to it. An incident of verbal abuse does not an abusive relationship make if it isn't an abusive relationship when looked at holistically then that incident is still an incident of verbal abuse IYSWIM.

juggling of course I would be upset being called a cunt or any other name. Name calling should be tackled. The argument was over the perceived meaning and strength of the word itself.
But as you say, there are other issues in abusive relationships too. No woman should tolerate a man who is abusive to them.

But happy do you not think another problem on this thread is the over perceived meaning and strength of the word abuse? It is also just a word and calling an intimate partner a cunt is absolutely factually described as verbal abuse.

So is muttering "a bad word" under your breath abusive?

What I mean is, is muttering "@%23€" to yourself as bad as saying "you're a @%23€" to someone directly?

Some people seem to be equating them

How about we say if you call your wife a cunt and she hears that is an incident of verbal abuse? That's as accurate as I think I could get it. If you mutter it instead of thinking it there is a presumption it is probably because you want to say it directly to her but arent really all that confident about it so leave it somewhat to chance as has been said previously. You can't say that he wanted her to hear or that he meant it to be private if it is muttered so there's some arbitrariness about that situation.

No, definitely not Lollipop - so I'd agree it's all about the context - the relationship in general, how it's said, whether there's an apology - all that Jazz.

Whether it is an abusive relationship depends on factors other than whether it might be said directly, muttered or thought I think.

If she was supposed to hear it, it was verbal abuse. If she wasn't supposed to hear it, it was someone muttering swears; it would still be abusive language.

However, it is not necessarily indicative of an abusive relationship. The OP asked if it was emotional abuse. It isn't, in itself, and it depends on the context and the rest of the relationship.

Juggling, in your comment about people having such a strong relationship they don't mind if their partner calls them a cunt, I think you are still missing the point. If someone says 'cunt' all the time, in many different contexts, it may be that they ascribe little particular meaning or power to the word - they could just as easily have called the other person a fool. It is the sentiment behind the word that is important, not the word itself.
I am sorry if you are in a situation where you are being called names in the context of emotional abuse. In the past, I have suffered emotional abuse from someone who was scrupulously polite, but constantly undermined me. It does not come down to the words, but the attitude.

Offred I think the strength and power and horror associated with the word 'abuse' may be being worrying diminished by its overuse.

I have, a long way in the past, been in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. I am now (and have been for some time) in an incredibly loving, supportive and respectful one. I know the difference

In my current relationship we have never called each other a name, we have swore during an argument (we rarely argue) although not at each other directly iyswim

but

people are human and flawed and a very occasional display of less than perfect behaviour does not an abuser make

Of course such behaviour may well be a red flag and we should all be vigilant but to call someone an abuser for swearing under their breath after an argument.. Well, where does it end?

The others posters were specifically talking about the use of the word cunt as evidence of abuse which I objected to.

Sorry Offred also meant to say that I don't think I over estimated the strength with which some posters used the word 'abuse' when they ware also saying they would instantly leave 30 year marriages if they were on the receiving end of this treatment even once.

But the thing is it isn't overuse of the word abuse to describe calling your intimate partner an offensive name. It is just factual to call it an incident of verbal abuse and I don't think people really getting used to and understanding things like this is harmful. I think it is helpful. I also think it would be great if people felt totally justified in ending relationships just because they wanted to rather than looking for "reasons", which is probably what happens a lot of the time when people are asking "is this normal?". Quite often they mean "I'm not comfortable do I have to put up with it?"

I would like to think I would leave a marriage because of this though. I think I wouldn't be able to live with a partner who had called me a bad name without being exceptionally paranoid. One bad word would seriously damage my trust and I think I'd be thinking "well if you think that why are we together, if you don't think it why say it?". If I'm going to be with a partner at all then I do expect they love and respect me even when angry with me.