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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Found myself in a terrible situation, need advice

262 replies

Lasaucisse1978 · 09/11/2012 20:19

I started this in lone parents and have just moved it on other posters' advice to here. I have pasted what I originally wrote below but now the initial shock has worn off I really don't know what to do. Is it a totally stupid thing to even consider seeing if we can get through this with counselling? Am I a mug for even thinking it? He is at home now and life seems so normal. The DCs are so happy to have him here and I am feeling guilty for even thinking of breaking up the family even though I have done nothing wrong. Anyone else got any experience?......

I married my partner of almost eight years two months ago, after two children and being engaged for five years.

Three days ago I snooped on his mobile phone, something I have never done before as I have always believed in trust and privacy. But something, whether it was intuition or sixth sense made me check and I thought it would just give me piece of mind. Instead what I uncovered was truly awful and now I am in a horrible predicament and struggling to decide what to do.

I discovered that not only was he having an affair, she is three months pregnant with his child. Ironically it was on our two month anniversary I discovered this and means he was seeing her just before we got married.

I was so shocked I just logged off instantly and then had to act all normal before he went to work. I was in bits all day and as soon as he got home and went to change I checked again. Unfortunately he had deleted everything. Later that night when I couldn't sleep I got up to check again and there were a whole load more text messages where it gets even worse. Not only is having an affair it has been going on for two years! On top of that he is giving her money for a flat, talks of me as a mistake, only staying with me for the sake of the kids, has left twice and gone back etc etc. It's all very me me me and how he has been distraught about it all. You get the gist.

I gleaned from all these messages which I took the liberty of photographing with my phone for proof that he only broke it off with her a few days before the wedding and of course she then revealed the pregnancy and now it is all back on they are "rekindling" and "in Love" his words not mine.

I have been checking his phone each night (he doesn't realise I know the password) when he is asleep and I can't sleep. I have found so many more incriminating messages written in the last couple of days and the worst of it was last night I discovered quite by accident that he is not only seeing this woman but he was lining up a far more casual meeting with another woman for two week's time who he has clearly slept with before!!! So not only is he cheating on me he is cheating on her. There is a small amount of satisfaction in that for me as she knows about me and the children and doesn't give two hoots but he is clearly being awful to her too.

I was distraught the first few days, have been physically sick, unable to eat and generally in pieces. I married him because I loved him and genuinely wanted to spend my life with him. He clearly is a duplicitous b*tard who I hope rots in hell. Now I am really really angry. I have an appointment with a family lawyer next week and have held off confronting him until I gather even more evidence and see the solicitor.

I am really really worried though as although he has never deprived me of money he has always been really cagey about it. He is already divorced and has a daughter who he has had to fight through courts to see. I am now wondering if the story about his ex-wife is all lies now too. A lot of the debts are in my name unfortunately and he has never bothered to get his statements sent her, they always go to his mum's house and I think he has shredded a lot of them. Naive you might say as when I entered the relationship I had a good job, very little debt but I trusted him implicitly, we had two children together, we agreed I would stay home to raised them and of course we were engaged to be married.

I am really worried he will leave us in the lurch I hope not but I just don't know. I know I am torturing myself with all of this and until I confront him and see a solicitor it is all supposition but does anyone have similar experience????

I just can't believe the level of his deceit. I never saw this coming not in a million years and I can't believe the man I stood in front of all our friends and family and said vows with was carrying on like this behind my back. I am heartbroken but mostly I feel so sorry for our children. Through no fault of their own they are now going to be the product of a broken family and weekend father.

It's all so depressing. Just want some moral support

OP posts:
JuliaScurr · 20/11/2012 14:01

yes - tell.

you're doing brilliantly well Smile

EuroShopperEnergyDrink · 20/11/2012 14:40

You are doing so well.

You need to tell his parents the truth before he can tell them a pack of lies and put the blame on you.

You also need to tell your DDs in an age appropriate way. After my father's affair my mother told me that he had kissed another lady, and used that as a platform to talk about fidelity and marriage. She went onto say that even though daddy fell out of love with her, they both still loved me more than anything in the world.

Abitwobblynow · 20/11/2012 16:10

Ooh, I just winced when I heard that people knew at your wedding. That is just awful! If the best man lived by the bible, he would have had clear guidance that he needed to confront the sinner, and told him that if he did not tell you, then he would. Here is a letter from a betrayed wife about this (community betrayal):

To ,

I am Scooter. I am Asshat's ex-wife. I am writing you for two reasons: 1) to clear up misconceptions that I?ve learned you are under and 2) to use my divorce and devastation as a lesson for others.

The following is my truth, my reality, and my experience.

Misconceptions
On September 27, 2011 Asshat stated that he ?wanted to stop all the lying? and informed me that he was having an affair with a married women for the last 1.5+ years and had been dating other women casually as well for the last 10 years of our marriage. He requested that I agree to a solution in which he would be more engaged with the family during the week and would visit his ?go-go dancing? affair partner every other weekend in Vegas. Although I was told of a mere fraction of his ?mini romances,? as he called them at the time, and I was given very few specifics, I told him to leave that day and I filed for divorce 3 weeks later. Not only did I never once consider reconciliation, I would never even knowingly befriend a person like this.

During our separation I learned that his circle of friends and relationship targets were told that either I and the kids didn?t exist, that he was married but had a sexless marriage, or that I approved of him having extramarital relationships and affairs with apparently no limits as long as he didn?t tell me about it. People were told that I had arranged this and that it is what I wanted. Asshat then took license to put tremendous amounts of time and emotional energy into his dozens upon dozens upon dozens of short & long-term emotional and physical affairs. At his deposition, I learned he had engaged in flings but also had 7 ?significant relationships? (I believe there were more) with other women during the last 10 years of our marriage.

Among other things, Asshat has said the following during the divorce process: ?Scooter didn?t want to share our private lives? (stated under oath at his deposition) and, ?We had an open marriage? (shared with his mother). I attest that I have never once, nor would I ever have, made those statements. I was never under the impression during our marriage that those two things were true.

? I, personally, was not in an open marriage.

? I did not deny the existence of my spouse or children to others at any time, ever.
? I did not agree to have separate ?private lives,? and I did not.

? I was under the impression that our marriage and family WAS our private life.

You can see from my immediate and swift reaction to his so-called honesty in September 2011 that his assertions were not in any way shape or form approved of or acceptable to me.

My newfound knowledge that Asshat's circle of friends and acquaintances are under the impression that I approved of and/or accepted his extramarital affairs and activities is quite humiliating and painful to me. Knowing my name has been sullied is a horrible affront. All we have in our lives is our name, our reputation, our character, and our integrity. There is nothing else that we take to our graves. All we are is what we do and how we behave toward our friends, spouses, children, families, community and G-d?we are what we repeatedly do. I know good people make bad mistakes once or twice in their lives and it is how they deal with it, whether through honesty and amends or by repeated lies and betrayal, that tells the true story of that person. Given the importance I place on this, I feel compelled to clear my name and set the record straight regarding who I am and what I believe in.

I would like to say the following: I am not the kind of person that would ever have an ?open marriage? and it was not an arrangement I consented to. I would never have approved of either of us putting time, money, and great effort and attention into other people as that is the fastest way to the destruction of intimacy, connection, honesty, and trust?.things that are not recoverable. Those of you who know me, and many of you do, should have known better. Love is dedication, support, loyalty, commitment, caring of and for, hard work, acceptance, fun, honesty, vulnerability, and respect?it is more than lust and ego-gratification. It is an obvious understatement that I am devastated and shattered (the best word for this experience overall) that for 10 years I loved and supported Asshat but I was not, given my definition, loved back.

My Lesson for Others
What happens in Vegas, Costa Rica, San Diego, Mexico, Miami, New York, Phoenix, St. Louis, San Francisco, Houston, Montreal, Russia, etc actually DOES NOT stay in those places. It stays with you and your marriage/relationship forever.

Every time you engage in email or in-person emotional or sexual relationships you are disrespecting your spouse, your marriage, and your children. You introduce a lie into your relationship, one that by definition separates and negatively impacts intimacy and love. You are forever separated from your spouse and without honesty, making amends, and working to fix it, it can?t be repaired.

Even if your relationship doesn?t explode as mine has or your spouse/significant other doesn?t find out about your dalliances, let me share with you very clearly, you are hurting and disrespecting them deeply and significantly. You are communicating through your actions that they and your relationship do not matter enough to you for you to protect them and care for them. You are showing that you care more about your fleeting and immediate ego gratification needs than you do about their feelings or the family. You are willing to betray them and all that you have built together; betrayal is one of the most difficult things to get over and the trust is nearly impossible to get back in full.

Let the destruction of my children?s family be an example of how things can go terribly wrong. ?Divorce? is such an innocuous word and doesn't characterize what this experience is. Let me be clear, this is a horrible tragedy, a blood bath, the destruction of children?s sense of safety and security, a total devastation, a rape of one?s history, memories, and ability to trust oneself and others that takes great time and distance to heal?and I understand that there will always be a scar. In any circumstance divorce is horrible, in one with great betrayal, it is just devastating. Be forewarned.

My disappointment in the community
Do not think for a moment that your actions had no impact; that this is all about Asshat and me alone. While you were out carousing with Asshat, fooling around with him yourself, or having meals or going to events with him and his affairs, you were creating a community for him that accepted his behavior and provided a venue for him to act in this manner. Many of you actually encouraged him and provided venues for him to share emotional and physical intimacies with women other than his wife. You helped make it ?okay? for him to act this way without any consequence. A good community helps us be our highest selves. Our friends support our growth and encourage us to do the right thing even when it?s hard. They give us tools and support and encourage us to grow. Asshat's community, those who are getting this email, encouraged his base and immoral self even if solely by looking the other way or thinking you had nothing to do with it. Your presence alone in these situations demonstrated an acceptance.

Additionally, you were having your secret fun on my back. While he was with you, I was alone feeding and caring for our children, bathing and putting them to bed at night, having dinner with them alone, teaching them to read alone, instructing them on manners alone, taking them to and from school alone, playing and dancing with them alone? making a life for them. I was also supporting my husband emotionally when he was in pain, working in my own profession, managing the childcare, doing the grocery shopping, taking care of the house and all our repeated moves, supporting him at work, being there for him when he was down, etc. Who do you think coached him on work challenges? Me. Who do you think held him up when he was depressed or anxious? Me. You were having your secret fun at both your spouse?s/significant other?s expense and mine!

And here is the one thing that I?ll never forgive: You knew what was going on and not a single one of you found a way to let me know, even anonymously?not one, not even those who were supposedly my friends. Not even those who knew of his activities before we had children found a way to warn me before I brought children into this sham of a ?marriage.? I?m deeply saddened that not one person cared a whit for me, S8, or S5 and that our society has such ?an open mind? that our brains have completely fallen out. For this and this alone, I say shame on you.

Now imagine?.you spend 10 years going out to dinner and events with your spouse?s friends and co-workers and 10 years later find out that they've known all along that your spouse has been screwing the neighbors and everyone but you knew. How would you feel then?

Moving Forward
The best thing that has happened to me in the last 10 years (other than the births of my children) is that I have been able to research and learn the truth about my life?about the details of what Asshat was doing during most of the critical moments and times of our lives, including the times just before, during, and after the births of our children. With that truth I?m finally free?free from dishonesty, disloyalty, and betrayal. Free to make the right decisions for me and my children based on truth, integrity, commitment, and love. Free to let go of false friends and retain and bring in people that are true and that care about how I feel and what I need. This honesty has been worth gold to me. There is nothing more exhilarating than to be freed. It was the greatest gift G-d has allowed me.

I am not writing to obtain any of your sympathy or pity? I don?t want it or need it. I am a smart, resilient, strong, attractive and joyful woman with a deep and vast network of friends and family who support me. I am well-ensconced in a full, happy and meaningful life. My conscience is clear and I have the love and respect of my community. I?ve shed false friends and experienced what it really means to be taken care of for the first time in 18 years. I have the satisfaction of knowing that I?m a responsible parent taking good care of my children and pulling more than my share of the weight. I have honesty.

When you look in the mirror knowing your role in my family?s devastation (and possibly how you betrayed your loved ones) do you feel shame? Regret? Embarrassment? Do you hope no one finds out?

I look myself square in the mirror every day knowing that I did, and continue to do, everything I could to support and take care of my family, even if it were under false pretenses.

olgaga · 20/11/2012 16:47

I don't see what's undignified about telling the truth!

He is having an affair, she is three months pregnant with his child. Ironically it was on our two month anniversary I discovered this and means he was seeing her just before we got married.

That sums it up really.

Lavenderhoney · 20/11/2012 19:32

Yes, I agree you must tell family and friends plus the school to give your dc the support they need, and you of course. Others, well if it comes up you tell them otherwise it's gossip, which you don't embellish but say what's hapened. I can't see any benefit to you and your dc on not saying anything.

He is really quite unrealistic in expecting this of you. I had an exbf who I lived with, discovered the ow as she came round ( her dh chucked her out as he found out) my bf at the time also begged me to not tell anyone as he couldn't face people thinking badly of him- he enjoyed a reputation as mr nice guy and knew he would get serious fall out. Of course I told people! He was anyway, behind my back and fixing a story! Git- he even offered me money to stay quiet.

I found various people knew anyway and that was most hurtful. I did not stay quiet and ensured everyone knew what he had done. The support I got was immeasurable and I would have made a disservice to myself if I hadn't. Plus friends would wondered why I didnt tell them and make all sorts of conclusions and perhaps lose friends - you would expect them to tell you, in your situation.

Well done btw, with it all

cenicienta · 20/11/2012 20:23

I think if you don't say anything then yes, you could lose dignity because than it looks like you knew / were in agreement / felt unable to do anything.

You didn't know! You weren't ever in agreement and you did do something about it.

Not only should you tell everyone who will listen about what he's done you should also challenge those "friends" who knew and didn't say anything. This is not about him, it's about you and your family getting through this with your integrity intact.

There are a lot of people who should be feeling fully ashamed of themselves in all this but you're not one of them! You can hold your head high knowing you have done absolutely nothing wrong!

BerylStreep · 20/11/2012 20:25

Have you told his Mum yet?

I agree with others that in asking you to keep quiet, the only person benefiting is him. The truth and him are obviously strangers to each other, and he is trying to get time to spin more lies, blaming you.

I would be inclined to write to the other woman, telling her that you are aware of their relationship, and outlining what he has told you about her - that she was blackmailing him etc. Tell her too about the casual sex OW. Oh, and that you are completely unaware of him suffering from MH issues, or having been committed for psyche treatment, your holiday to Rome. He will have told her countless lies about you and the DC - that you are in a sexless loveless marriage etc. I wouldn't be surprised that he hasn't told her that you have MH issues too. I would put her straight on all of this, because, not to excuse her behaviour at all, he has clearly fed her as many lies as he has to you and that is how she has justified carrying on with poor put-upon him.

I would try my very best not to be angry in the letter (easy to say), but for it to be a sharing of information to expose the lies.

hiviolet · 20/11/2012 20:55

I can't believe he has the gall to ask you to keep this secret. So all of his family and friends don't get to find out what a lying, cheating, despicable bastard he is? Angry

When this gets out (and please let it be a WHEN) you're going to come out looking lilywhite, saucisson. Please don't think this foul secret will benefit you in any way at all.

SundaeGirl · 20/11/2012 21:42

Hmmmmm. I'd get the money in writing first. Sorry, but although I agree with everyone else about you needing RL support, I'd tell my close friends but not let on to him that anyone else knew. While this state continues he still imagines he has the upper hand. And you need him to think that - and feel a twinge of guilt - when he's agreeing aliment, because as you've said, he'll throw money at a problem.

What you absolutely don't want to give him is 'look what she's done to me' because it'll give him an excuse to let himself be (even) more unpleasant to you. Go carefully and always play the long game. And the long game is what's best for you and your DDs.

Abitwobblynow · 20/11/2012 22:46

Goodness, this guy and LouP's Chunt have to be the most despicable men on MN.

Funny, I wasn't surprised when I heard he worked in the City

Lasaucisse1978 · 20/11/2012 23:12

Don't feel particularly strong tonight - just spke to a mutual friend on the phone and didn't say a word. I am a bit pissed to be honest, two thirds of a bottle of wine willdo that.

He sent me a text earlier basically saying for the sake fo the children could we not continue as before? I was gobsmacked and replied that I can't believe he asked me that. Who the fuck does he think he is. Having said that I just had the most awesome email from a mutual male friend whcih really helped and I found a five pund note on the street today so not all bad.

Sorry about crap spelling and punctuation, I am normally a bit of a stickler for that bit as I said have drunk rather a bit tonight.

He hasn't replied I am not sure I expect him to but I am expecting him to now blame me for splitting up the family on the grounds I wouldn't go back to the way we were "for the sake of the children" because clearly that thgouht was uppermost in his mind when he was fucking her and whispering sweet nothings....

OP posts:
skyebluesapphire · 20/11/2012 23:22

OK, this is just another thing that they do... turn it back on you so its your fault.... My XH did it to me. "No, I dont love you, I dont want to be here any more" and then "you said you would never trust me again anyway, so its over".

So yes, it was all my fault that we got divorced.........

So sorry to say it is all par for the course. Ignore it. Remember that HE did this, not you.

MamaMimi · 20/11/2012 23:26

You should reply to him saying; 'for the sake of the children' could you not have kept your cock in your pants stayed faithful to our family?

hopespringy · 21/11/2012 00:05

Let's unpick this then: why aren't you saying anything?

Not an inquisition but putting a magnifying glass to what's going on in your head so you can unpick it, name the components (shame? guilt? shock? etc)

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 21/11/2012 00:18

Because voicing it makes it all more real?

Sorry, Lasaucisse not answering for you. I would think being on the receiving end of that text from him you wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry.

MakeItALarge · 21/11/2012 02:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EuroShopperEnergyDrink · 21/11/2012 04:27

What a cunt.

For the sake of the children, how about he doesn't go around sticking his dick in other women and impregnating them?

What about the sake of his other child on the way?

Does he seriously think he can have two families and this will all just be okay?

I'm furious about what he's done to you LaSaucisse. I hope that vile wankery text from him is enough for you to tell everyone the truth. It won't look bad on you, it will just expose him for the bastard he is.

'He's been having an affair and she's 3 months pregnant.' that's all you have to say. No tarring, no slander. It's the truth.

They'll do the math and come to their own conclusions about what a shit he is, you consider yourself the messenger.

Lasaucisse1978 · 21/11/2012 08:13

Feeling a little better this morning. Must remember not to drink. I am not a big drinker and it doesn't help except make me feel shit. I did reply to his text and reiiterated what I said - how can he say for the sake of the children with what he has done. I said it is over between us, can't see a way back and my priority is making sure all the children are okay and that they are told something.

I really don't want to get nasty because of my girls (my parents divorced when I was 7 because my mum had an affair with my stepdad so I know what it's like although they kept it amicable for our sakes) and that is probably why I am not going and telling all and sundry. I also don't want to rock the boat financially. Cowardly? Perhaps but I need to ensure me and the girls still have a roof over our heads and I don't want the hassle of having him suddenly refuse money because there is no hope. I honestly don't know that he will but am preparing myself for worst case scenario and am just trying to be practical by not being too antagonistic right now.

That said, I am fast approaching a point where I will start saying things to people. There are quite a few who already know but as for his family and friends I have no idea. He may be spinning them a pack of lies so I will probably have to address that sooner rather than later. His main concern anyway as I have said before isn't me or the children, it is how he appears to others. That's what the big wedding was about - about showing how well he has done and making people admire him. That's what buying lots of stuff we don't need is about - proving he has made it and is better than everyone when he is anything but. He never got that about me, that I didn't really care too much about all that. He always thought if he threw enough money at something it would work out. I am very close to just telling him and all his friends exactly what happend and what I think and if he does leave me in the lurch so be it. I will get through it one way or another.

OP posts:
olgaga · 21/11/2012 08:33

Lasaucisse1978 I honestly think that securing your financial position is far more important than who knows/contacting his mum/the OW etc. It's all the more urgent given his comments about it being "his money" and that you should "get a job" etc (your comment Mon 12-Nov-12 07:25:34)

Please make an appointment with the solicitor to arrange a separation agreement asap. You really need to sort out a formal agreement about finances. As it is you will have a terrible time ahead - no need to make it any worse.

You really need a RL friend to help you through this practical stuff while your head's all over the place and you're flat out with two young children. Is there anyone who can help you with all that?

Charbon · 21/11/2012 11:50

You don't have to be nasty but you do have to be practical. In reality as soon as he realises you mean business and are resolute, he will fight dirty anyway and nothing you do or say (or don't say) would make a scrap of difference.

I don't think you are quite 'there' yet in being absolutely resolute that this is over. The text you sent saying that 'you can't see a way back' betrays that. It conveys doubt, not certainty.

I expect that this is a lot of your motivation for not telling people, just in case the relationship is recoverable.

The trouble is that after discovery, he's had time to arrange his thoughts and possibly his finances and he's probably now ahead of you in the planning stage.

Please go to a solicitor and get the ball rolling - and start telling everyone who needs to know, especially your children. They are likely to be very confused right now and to need some support. You also need more support, but I'm wondering whether you fear that if you told this story to someone who would clearly be in your support camp, they would be emphatic about you leaving him and moving on with your life?

skyebluesapphire · 21/11/2012 12:01

If you tell the children yourself, then you know what is being said to them... on the day XH left, he took DD into another room, so I couldnt hear what he told her... she then came running in crying saying that Daddy was going to live somewhere else... he was crying, I was crying.... He later told somebody else that she tried to pack her little bag to go with him....

That broke my heart and I am afraid that DD at 4yo will remember that in years to come...

If you tell them yourself, you can make sure that you know what you are telling them, that it is done properly and that they understand that no matter what happens that their daddy loves them and that you love them..... I know it is hard, but the main thing for the children is that things are quite clear and that they feel secure

hopespringy · 21/11/2012 12:23

he took DD into another room

what a fucking SHIT Angry Angry

sorry to hijack but Angry

skyebluesapphire · 21/11/2012 12:28

I know, which is why I mentioned it..... if OP lets him take control of what is said, then it could damage the children..... there was not chance for me to reassure DD, as I didnt know what he had said and I was in bits anyway....

Far better to do it yourself and then you can do it properly....

AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow · 21/11/2012 12:41

Nothing any better than the excellent advice already given to add Lasaucisse1978, just signing in as another hand to hold.

He's an utter bastard, you on the other hand are amazing.

countingto10 · 21/11/2012 12:59

Please bear in mind that the OW will be jerking his chain big time soon, if not already, he has probably already got legal advice so ahead of the game (and also reason why he wants to get back with you Hmm). Mine had got legal advice as soon as he knew what he was going to do.

I think you should tell his mother, whatever you say he will put a spin on it so it makes no odds.

You don't have to tell all and sundry but you do need as much rl support as you can get.

And try and stay off the wine, it really doesn't help when you are gong through this sort of thing as it is a depressant, I found pampering myself with bubble baths, manicured etc more beneficial.

You do need to tell the DCs ASAP as they will be making stuff up in their heads IYSWIM.

Best wishes and nothing any man does now surprises me after what my DH did (we are still together).