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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Is this too creepy to tolerate? [WARNING: extreme subject matter]

447 replies

Halfway · 29/10/2012 08:39

I'm posting on behalf of my best friend (for real, she is sat beside me but is not familiar with Mumsnet).

She has recently begun dating a new guy (for a couple months), whom she has known for over ten years as a friend, albeit mostly long distance as he works and lives long periods abroad. He is also Chinese (only relevant because I am genuinely unsure as to whether there are any cultural differences that might make his confession less bizarre than it sounds to me).

He has confessed to her that his ultimate fantasy about intimacy involves eating someone (albeit only ever with their consent).

He says he has never actually eaten part of anyone, but fantasizes about finding someone who would consent to giving him small pieces of flesh (that would not overly harm the person), that he could cook and perhaps even share with them.

Now, she tells me all this in a very relaxed (almost flippant) way, and I can't help but sit here and inwardly think !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

She tells me that in her opinion it is no worse than people who fantasize about whipping/strangling each other, and that although it is freaky, the important thing is that he has no wish to do anything without someone else's wholehearted participation.

So now I am uncertain as to whether I really am being a bit intolerant (and judgemental), or if there is something about this particular fantasy that is just too dangerous (and creepy) to tolerate.

Mumsnet jury opinions needed! Many thanks.

OP posts:
Halfway · 29/10/2012 16:18

MadBus We're outsiders in the sense that people are quick to judge all of us as deviant and to be avoided, without sparing any time or thought as to why we think some of the things we do.

Its that kind of alienation and 'othering' that I relate to with my friend, and this guy, and is the reason I am keen not to do it unless he represents real, actual non-consensual harm.

Strawhat You are absolutely right. I am wary of her being lured into something that would become very dangerous for her. Transparency and as much openness as possible is the way to go with this (in my mind).

If I judge him and his thought processes too harshly, she will recoil as if I am judging her in the same way. I have to tread carefully here, and I am at least intelligent enough to understand when something is too big for me, if that makes any sense. I'm not just going to cut her loose and wash my hands of it, because I love her.

OP posts:
MrsKeithRichards · 29/10/2012 16:21

That was some shitty behaviour.

Op your friend needs to run, he's not going to be healthy for your friend even if she decides not to let him feast on her.

RubyCreakingGates · 29/10/2012 16:22

Perhaps he thinks someone might donate him an unwanted post operative apendix? Or a toe?

foododdity.com/yes-thats-a-human-toe-in-your-drink-the-sour-toe-cocktail/

But I'd be running for the hills ight about now!

SoftKittyWarmKitty · 29/10/2012 16:23

OP, have you thought about what you'll do if your friend tells you they're going to go ahead with this/says they've already tried it? Or if you suddenly notice she has chunks missing and/or scars on fleshy parts of her body? Would you report it to the police?

Also when you meet him are you going to mention any of this? I think you need to consider this because it's going to be hard having a conversation about the weather/X Factor/what he does for a living, when inside you'll be thinking 'this man wants to hurt/eat bits of my friend'.

Halfway · 29/10/2012 16:37

I've pm'ed you SoftKittyWarmKitty, and a few other posters. There are some things I can't put here.

Yes, I very much want to meet him and have a proper talk with him about it myself, to try and probe where he's coming from, what he actually wants, how in control of himself he feels etc. What measures he is thinking of to safeguard my friend in case he loses control of himself, and how open he is to my involvement with the sole purpose of protecting her and nothing else.

I'd also be interested to see his reaction to my requesting a CRB check on him.

OP posts:
Halfway · 29/10/2012 16:42

Have also texted her a bit asking for more particulars, because I don't want her to think I have closed down from helping her (that will send her running from me).

She says he absolutely only wants from her what she is willing to give and no more, and if that only means dead skin/hair/nails etc, then so be it, although its obvious she is toying with the idea of giving him more if he asked for it.

I wonder if I can steer her down the blood/vampirism route if she is absolutely determined, as at least that is already a pre-existing interest of hers, and so at least may be mutually satisfying for them, and not just about him.

It is justifying self-harm though, albeit in a roundabout way, and I'm also trying to get her to think about whether she really wants to move toward that, rather than away from it.

OP posts:
reddemonsinthegarden · 29/10/2012 16:50

have read most of this thread...
glad your friend has you to rely on, OP. you are being a fabulous friend to her.
i agree with everyone else that i think your friend should run. it reads like a vbery vulnerable woman is being targetted for abuse by a very messed up man.
I'm really shocked, but sadly unsurprised, by the nasty comments on here. anonymity appears to give some people the licence to use others' issues as entertainment.

loopylou6 · 29/10/2012 16:59

Wow. Ok. Op, I dont think this will end well, Idont think this man will be content with jjst dry/dead skin, even if he is at first.

What will you do, and how will you feel when you start noticing shes wearing bandages etc?

What happens if he gets caught up in the moment and goes too far and kills her? What would you tell the police? Would you then become a part of a murder?

Please try and stop her :(

EldritchCleavage · 29/10/2012 17:01

I think you are taking on too much. You cannot police this relationship. Is it really a good idea to be in the middle negotiating unenforceable agreements over what happens? I perfectly understand your instincts are good, but it all strikes me as dis-empowering for your friend and likely to lull her into believing she is much safer than she really is.

ThatVikRinA22 · 29/10/2012 17:03

absolutely the most huge, huge, crimson red enormous flag waving in her face.

this will most definitely not end well. What is it within your friend that makes her not see that this is not normal - it is dangerous dangerous and however exciting and "off limits" its seems now the reality is going to be so so different.

she needs help. your friend needs help if she cannot see why this is the worst idea humanly possible and why she needs to find her feet and vote with them.

Strawhatpirate · 29/10/2012 17:03

You are a very good friend. I think your friend should tell him that she is completely unwilling to offer him any flesh or dead skin at all and then see how he reacts. Would he still be willing to pursue a relationship? I think he will soon reveal his true colours if she makes him believe she's only interested in a vanilla relationship.

geegee888 · 29/10/2012 17:08

OP, I have read some of this thead, not all admittedly.

And what I think you should do is report your concerns to the police. I am worried your friend is somehow being groomed or influenced.

It may be that the police will feel able to have an advisory word with the boyfriend. It may be that they know something else.

I think this is too much for you to deal with on your own.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2012 17:08

I completely agree with Eldritch.

This is a fucked up situation. You cannot protect your friend from an abuser (and he is an abuser, despite your attempts to excuse it) like some sort of sexual go-between.

You are not her counsellor. I strongly suggest you take a step back and push her into seeking professional help and that this be the extent of how far you put your own emotional health on the line.

Moominsarescary · 29/10/2012 17:19

Its a difficult one, obviously you want to support your friend but I think you need to tell her you don't think it's a good idea, I'm not sure it's a good idea to suggest blood letting either due to your friends history and her bf obvious want to take things further.

However I'm not sure how you can do this without isolating her or risking her taking a step back from your friendship if she decides she wants to persue this.

I trained as a mh nurse an my bf has a history of self harm, probably one of the worse cases I've seen. There are times when her actions have been dangerous and when she is unwell her judgement often has dangerous consequences, it's difficult being there for someone but also making them aware that you think what they are doing is harmful to themselves as the last thing you want to do is isolate them.

Halfway · 29/10/2012 17:31

Thank you all for the help.

You are right, I need to 'reset' so to speak and think about my own boundaries and involvement in this. With that in mind, I have printed off what exists of the thread before posting this, so that if she asks to see it I can give that to her (she is not the most computer literate).

I've done that so that I can openly say what I have been pm'ing people about, which is that I have contacted the police (did so earlier today after the suggestions started coming in). I just couldn't put that on the thread because I knew she would probably want to read through it herself, and would think of it as a kind of betrayal if she saw I'd done that.

They have taken what details I have of him from me, they want more (like his address), but I now have to try and sneakily get those details from her without tipping her off (I have an idea how I'll do it though). They've said they can't actually do anything if he hasn't done anything, but they will check him out in more detail, and will make a note of it for future reference once they have his full details.

For that bit of advice alone thank you, I wasn't sure if I could legitimately involve police, but its done now and I feel a lot better for it.

OP posts:
Halfway · 29/10/2012 17:33

Also, for those of you who find this too 'far out' to get your head around, please don't worry, and don't worry about trying to help me. There are others who can.

It is far out, but there are some people who are experienced enough to help me with this, because they know at least a bit of where I'm coming from. If its making your head hurt, then don't worry. Its a good thing you don't know more about how to handle these sorts of things because it means you haven't encountered them, and thank god for that. Smile

OP posts:
Strawhatpirate · 29/10/2012 17:33

I don't think it would be a good idea to suggest vampirism. He would consider it an "in" and a way to push for more. It might make it harder for your friend to deny him flesh when she has willingly given him her blood. Plus the last thing she probably needs is to feel like she is blood bound to dangerous manipulative man.

Shallishanti · 29/10/2012 17:35

have not read the whole thread but there's a very funny episode of the IT crowd based on this!

Strawhatpirate · 29/10/2012 17:38

It would be different if she met a lovely guy and they had decided to explore vampirism together IFYSWIM.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2012 17:39

Halfway, just because some of us have never been involved in this kind of scene, it doesn't mean we don't see massive red flags a-waving. What you said in your last post sounds a tad patronising, tbh.

I agree though, I am glad I haven't encountered such situations but if I did, I would run a fucking mile and that is what both you and your friend should do. Not make excuses like "only another fucked-up person would understand this, and such people have some sort of code of conduct of extra tolerance between each other"

zero tolerance is the only acceptable level of tolerance here

Halfway · 29/10/2012 17:44

Out for a bit. Need some food and something light-hearted. Feeling stronger though. I can and will involve as many outside forces as needed in this, and I am also beginning to think (from her texts), that she is going to turn this around and pull out.

I'm actually not religious, but praise god! Smile

OP posts:
Halfway · 29/10/2012 17:46

Ah, and HappyHalloweenMotherFucker, thank you. I'm sorry if that came across patronising.

I don't mean that people who haven't been there have nothing to say. I only meant that if people are distressing themselves over this situation, then not to do so, as they don't need to... thats all.

OP posts:
Halfway · 29/10/2012 17:53

Argh, and if that sounds patronising, its only because I'm the sort of person who needs that kind of 'permission' from a thread myself. Yes thats horrible, I know... another of my little demons outed. Smile

OP posts:
BillysBeastlyBogeyman · 29/10/2012 18:03

the last paragraph here should make your friend very worried

PrincessSymbian · 29/10/2012 18:06

I'm really glad that you've got in touch with the police and you think that she is reconsidering.
Last summer, in the midst of a manic episode, I let myself (and enjoyed it at the time) until I had bright purple bruises, one of which took over six months to heal.
Now that I'm not manic, I look back on that and realise that that was far too far over the line.
My last therapist, who was kink positive, said that she felt it should stop before permanent damage is done and that would be permenant damage.
I was also discussing this with one of my current lovers the other week and we both agree that before you can start messing around beyond the barriers of 'normal' you should probably have a good understanding of what and where the barriers are.