Hollow laugh from the OW

[Dandythelion]

I was the OW. As well as sweeping me off my naive feet into a 50 shades type sexual thrall, he convinced me that the marriage was dead, he'd hated her for years, he only stayed because he felt sorry she was going bald (!), they only had pity sex, she was horribly unstable and always threatening suicide, was a total hypochondriac, terrible mother, educationally bereft, emotionally subnormal and socially inept.

He made me feel absolutely beautiful and special and I couldn't do without it, nobody can make you feel better than an emotionally abusive man, it's almost an art form. They get inside your head and worm out your deepest dreams and promise to make them all come true. Then he makes them almost come true, but just dangles perfection out of reach.

You'll go mad trying to get there and you won't have the sense you were born with, the madness takes you over and morality won't enter it because you want to believe the fantasy more than you will listen to friends, family, conscience.

For all the wives who've been left by this type, sleep a little better knowing that less than two years on, the beautiful clever perfect wam they left you for discovers he's pulling the same stunt on new woman, and suddenly it's easy to see why the mental health issues arose.

Don't waste time begging him to come back, he has a cock where a heart should be and doesn't say a word that hasn't been carefully chosen to get exactly what he wants.

Thought it might give a wry smile tp those who have been there.

Ineed

OW did have a choice and she chose to betray me (as I have already said upthread she was a friend, has been to our wedding and watched our DC grow).

Her words and actions during and after the affair were very damaging. OW did pursue my DH (I have proof of this) and he took the opportunity.

As in the shitting on toilet analogy outlined upthread, we all have a responsibility to take others' feelings in consideration - I could never ever want to be partly responsible for the destruction of a family - its pure selfishness.

Bugsy, thanks for re-starting this strand of the thread - I think most marriage breakdowns happen for this kind of reason, rather than use & abuse. (I just happen to have known a lot of abusers, thanks to fucked-up boundaries.) As you say, there really is no way of doing it 'right'. Losing a partner's love is always going to hurt a lot.

HotChoc, you were betrayed by TWO people you loved, working together against you. No wonder it was so painful. In your case, the OW did abuse your trust and let you down.

The majority don't even know the wife; they are not betraying her as your 'friend' did. I feel you're incorrectly tarring them all with the same brush, do you see?

MadAbout, quite alot of women's husbands are pursued by other women & they say "No thank you, I'm married". Unless the OW has a gun against his head - he has that choice. It is still the married person's fault to leave a marriage this way.

Most relationships are selfish. When you met your partner for the first time, you don't think altruistic thoughts, you think this person is right for me. We connect, we click - they are the one for me. You fall in love & then you might get married, set up home together or have children. You agree formally or otherwise to forsake all others etc etc. It is the married person who has the affair who breaks this agreement, regardless of if he was pursued to the ends of the earth by the OW.
I think as married women, specially ones who have been left, we find it easier to think that there was a predatory woman out there looking to steal our husband - but outside of Fatal Attraction - it is rarely that clear cut.

hotchoc You were indeed betrayed by two people, I'm sorry I didn't clock you were the poster who said about that upthread (it is a long thread). Your husband betrayed your marriage (his fault) and your friend betrayed your friendship (her fault). They both had a relationship to you outside of the other and both betrayed their realtionship to you. Your husband was the weak willed one who betrayed you and didnt say "no thanks I'm married" so the fault of your marriage was his much more then hers if you can see what I'm saying?

I think that alot of people are confusing anger at the OW for her part in the break up with the betrayal of the husband.

Yes, he did the lying, the cheating and the betraying. But what she did was wrong too, and whichever way you paint it, morally she did wrong if she knew that he was married.

I do not accept that cheated on wives shouldnt have any negative emotion towards the OW. If he is going to cheat then he is going to cheat, but that doesnt mean that I shouldnt be pissed off at a woman who knew he had a wife and children but had a relationship with him anyway.

There are some things that you just dont do.

No woman is a magical man eater, stealing husbands that don't want to be stole like a fairy tale where the married partner doesn't have a choice.

Which poster on this thread said that? Personally, I've never met a woman who was stupid enough to believe that nonsense, but you clearly have or you wouldn't be attributing those views to women who are not on this thread.

I can only assume too that you either object to the concept of responsibility in joint enterprise, don't understand it or think it only applies to every other life situation apart from this one?

If you'd read the thread properly and had an ounce of compassion and humanity, instead of pouring salt in another poster's wounds you would see that Mad's friend abused her trust. I sincerely hope that if a friend of yours did that to you, you wouldn't have others telling you that you had no right to feel badly towards her and that you were being irrational.

Like I've been saying all along, you can have compassion for the OP and women in her situation, without losing it for the other people who've been hurt.

If posters were kind and measured in their responses, I'd welcome threads that examined the motivations of everyone involved in triangular relationships, but for some reason they bring out the worst in some people who see it as a licence to be unkind and insensitive to women who've suffered pain; either OWs or wives/partners.

So I now groan when I see threads like this. They never help and only cause anger and hurt.

CHarbon I have not seen that view put across by anyone, it has been accepted the whole way through that the cheater will cheat if he can find someone to cheat with. No one has suggested that the world is full of femme fatales ensnaring these hapless penis owners

And I do agree with what you say about responsibility in a joint enterprise. There are always 2 people in any affair, and they must take joint responsibility for the outcome.

Bogeyface, like I say I cordially hate my ex-H's wife. I am unfaillingly polite, but I dislike her intensely. I feel perfectly comfortable disliking her. I dislike my ex-H too. However, it was my ex-H who chose to cheat on me with her, it was my ex-H who allowed himself to enter into a relationship with her. I don't care if she danced naked for him in the office - it was his choice to do that.
So, I completely agree that cheated partners have every right to feel angry at the OW, to dislike them, hate them etc - but what bugs me is the delusion that surrounds unfaithfulness & this ongoing myth that persists that OW are predatory man hunters and that cheating partners /spouses must be serial adulterers who create vacancies when they marry their mistresses. It is bollox & it does no one any favours to believe it.

But they are not all myths!

Some men ARE serial adulterers. Some OW ARE man hunters. Although I would say that there are far less man hunters than there are serial adulterers. In my case, neither was true, but that doesnt mean I dont appreciate that these people can and do exist.

And if the woman who has been cheated on feels better for believing something like that, who are you or I to tell her she shouldnt? I wouldnt dream of telling you how you should feel or react to your ex and his w, so why should you take it upon youself to tell others?

You're right Bogey it has been accepted all along, but some posters seem to be persistent and wilful in their misunderstandings, attributing thoughts and rationales that have never been expressed.

I've never met a woman who thought that the OW was solely to blame, but I really do think some posters have difficulty with the concept of joint enterprise and blame not being an exclusive entity. I very much doubt they'd have any difficulty understanding this in law, or in other life situations so it does make you wonder why supposedly intelligent posters have a myopia about this. An unwillingness to take personal responsibility oneself for the behaviour might explain it.....

I was a cheater. I was desperately unhappy; I was abused... I should have left, but didn't see a way out. I had an affair, recognised kindness, enjoyed life again... but felt guilty.

I stopped.

I left XW.
Later, OW and got back together again, and OW is now DW. And has been for 10+ years. So no, no vacancy created.

It would be stupid to believe that all OW are predatory man hunters and all men having affairs are serial philanderers - yes.

It would also be stupid to believe that people who behave like that don't exist at all and are mythical.

I don't think I have told anyone how to feel - I have explained what I think.

You are right, there are serial adulterers and predatory husband stealers. That they exist does not change anything I have said.

If I have offended anyone/ rubbed salt in wounds with my opinions then I apologise. Sometimes with texts on screens the tones of posts don't come across as they would in RL.

It would be great to have this discussion with all emotions took out/or being able to walk in the other persons shoes, but threads like these do bring out strong emotions and of course we all think we are right

My ExH's OW personally did a lot of damage to me, with unsolicited phone calls insulting me, and upsetting my two small children.

She hated me.

Ineed/post bellum etc

Some of you seem to be ignoring everything else I have written about my DH's part in the whole thing.

YES my DH is to blame for checking out of his marriage and cheating. He takes full responsibility. He has been a very weak, selfish deceitful twat.

However, my OW is not innocent and many other OWs are not that innocent either.

My ExH was to blame.

OW's behaviour was selfish and abusive.

Bogeyface/Charbon - good posts.

< leaves thread >

it has been accepted the whole way through that the cheater will cheat if he can find someone to cheat with

I think Shirley Glass in her book 'Not just friends' says that the marriage can be happy with no problems but the adulterer comes across someone who becomes a good friend (eg in the workplace so are seeing each other regularly without effort) and the friendship grows. Slowly becomes closer (as friendships are wont to do) and eventually becomes intimate without either partner of the friendship 'looking' for a new partner. It just needs them NOT to do something (ie see that they are too friendly, call a halt to the friendship),rather than doing something (looking for a bit on the side, being seductive).

No one in any relationship is entirely good/bad, actively a predator or a victim. However as said above every one knows that there is a line - perhaps it's not in the same place for everyone - and knows when it has been crossed and when their partner would see that a line had been crossed. My ex is an abusive shit, I put up with stuff, but the one thing I cannot tolerate now is that the OW spent time with my DS and ex while we were supposedly together. She is welcome to ex, but as far as I'm concerned she crossed a line with DS and that can't be undone. I know what ex was up to in his own twisted way, but the fact that she went along with it suggests she is as twisted as he is.
I think OP is very brave to have started thread. It's never going to be an easy subject.

I think my ExH is to blame.

The OW was extremely unpleasant to me and my children.

I don't understand why SolidGoldBrass hasn't contributed to this thread.

Well, if I add one word here, everything SGB would say has been said I think. So here's the word: heteronormative

you forgot Monogamous GB