The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

I have a 16 month old who spent the vast majority of her first six months whining and refusing to be put down. No chance I could have coped with a 2 year old as well, so a medal for you.
That said, this has to stop because no one is having any fun in your house.

1. Tidy/ housework once a day only after the kids are in bed. If your DH doesn't like it, tough shit.
2. Cook when they are in bed and reheat the next day or use a slow cooker.
3. Get a Moby wrap or other sling for the little one, you can get more done.
4. Write a list of what you do in the day where DH can see so if he asks what you've been doing you can wave it in his lazy fucking face.
5. cuddle you kids when they whine until they squirm away. Include millions of kisses, raspberries, tickles and hugs. They are just checking you love them so love them. That is how children form secure attachment.

Better then all of that would be to kick your feckless DH out. You would have more money, more time and more sleep. But that's much harder

I must admit to finding it at bit ofd that you are so anti childcare but think ignoring them is a better option. Sounds like you are super stressed!!

My kids went to preschool/nursery at 2.5. They were old enough to tell me what was going on (in great detail when the mood took them) that they enjoyed it and they made little friends . If you won't consider a nursery how about a nanny/babysitter who cones to your home? I'm not too keen in CMs personally, at least if it is someone working solo in your home you can keep closer tabs on them.

At those ages when I was SAHM ing I took kids somewhere everyday so they weren't bored, playgroups/tumble tots/swimming/messy play sessions whatever takes your fancy and suits your budget.

Will your 9 month old go off to sleep if you cuddle to sleep? Cry to sleep, cuddle to sleep, feed to sleep.. Pick one and do it, you'll all benefit and don't worry about rods and backs.

And your DH is a twat, lazy bastard. He must have his redeeming features, I'm sure but right now, you need his support more than ever. Get a babysitter, go out for a drink and dinner with him and lay it bare on the table. Tell him you are honestly not coping. Make him listen and make him find some way to help you.

OP, I just don't know what else to suggest. You are clearly in a bad place, depressed, stressed, overworked with a DH who is not pulling his weight as a member of your family. But, you do not seem to want to help yourself or your children.

The thing that would help you the most, as just about everyone has pointed out, is to get some help with the children. I would not base my childcare choices on one book, particularly one with such an inflamatory title. Speak to people you know whose children are in childcare, find out about what's out there, the different options (all of which have been enumerated on this thread). Good childcare can bring so much that is positive to a child's life, and can make a parent's life considerably better too - I know that I am a better mother for DD being at nursery 2 days a week - and she has grown so much in confidence and is making friends and enjoying herself - it's a complete win-win situation (I was at home with her for 2 years, not my finest moments a lot of the time, that's for sure. I fitted some work in during naps, evenings and weekends. but that wasn't much fun either. And the house would have been a tip if DH hadn't pitched in all the time).

I asked before and I'll ask again - what are your DH's views on childcare? I am getting a sneaking feeling that it is he who thinks they should be at home with you all day.

Also, your work - how important is it? Is it financially necessary? Or something you really want to do? Both are very valid reasons for doing it, and doing it well, which you can't do with 2 under-3s to care for. And your DH needs to respect that. And you.

If there was stuff that I needed to do, I used to put the baby in a pram when she was tired, and placed it near me whatever job I was doing. I think because she was all comfy, and relatively high up and could see me with eye contact, she would settle and eventually drop off. i still use it now when I am busy, and take it into pre school for her naps. Might be worth a try....

Can I also say that if you are working - from home or outside the home - then you should not be expected to do all the housework.

If you worked a 70 plus hour week in a demanding job you wouldn't expect to come home and rush round ... while your dh sits on his arse. Because this is what is happening and it's not on.

If he wants you to do all the cleaning suggest he gives you the same salary as you earn from your job so you dont need to work and bill him for childcare too as youre doing that for him as well. He's being an ignorant pig.

Hi OP, "how not to Fuck them up" doesn't say you must have your kids with you until 3 it says that there are disadvantages to daycare particularly in less then excellent settings but that being at home with an unresponsive depressed carer is potentially worse. I love that book but it can be used as a stick to beat yourself with when you're down.

I think that ignoring your kids and blocking their appeals to you with an ipod would be much more damaging than some childcare. Do you have family or friends who can help?

I think expecting yourself to do a job, look after two kids and clean is unrealistic. Would you expect a cleaner to simultaneously do child-care? Would you except an employee doing childcare while also working? I think you can have it all but maybe not simultaneously.

I also think you're DH wanting time with the kids cannot trump a sensible bedtime for them, if they're up before 8.30 they aren't getting enough sleep.

In response to your question about whether kids need constant attention the answer is basically yes. They'll play or pottle but do need to have you engaging on and off while they do that.

Give yourself a break! You sound like you're run off your feet - your schedule makes me feel tired just reading it!

I'm gobsmacked at this thread.

OP - yes, children are generally better off not being in full time nursery until they are over 3 years. Unless the parent/carers are abusive or neglectful.

You don't have to put your kids in full time nursery. you can do it part time, or look into using a childminder, again, part time. It might give you enough of a break to just breathe and get yourself back together again.

You write about your children as if you don't like them very much. We all have moments like that - but I don't believe that your kids whinge ALL DAY. No kids do. I think you are globalising your feelings and only seeing the bad in them.

If you decide they are just whinging, and therefore you can legitimately put headphones in and ignore them (!) - that's really not going to end well.

It will be a few years before both of your children play independently enough for you to get on with work uninterrupted for a meaningful length of time. So you do need to think about this problem of working with small children at home now.

I am self employed, work from home full time and my DS has not gone into nursery either (he is 2 and a half now). But I only have one child, my partner also works from home and is willing to share parenting duties equally, I employ a cleaner once a week AND we have approx 9 hours spread across the week from a very local nanny.

and I would still say that is manageable but tiring! and I struggle to keep on top of shopping and laundry and cooking. FWIW, i also have a history of depression, although am well atm.

You do need to make changes but turning up the music and leaving your children to cry is not the way forward.

Sorry, I didn't see if anyone had already suggested this, but could you consider a soft sling for the 9 mo, maybe carry them on your back while you do the minimum housework? I think you need to seriously rethink your priorities and lower your standards a bit though - that, or get a dishwasher and a cleaner! You're trying to do way too much - looking after two very small children at home, FT, is plenty. Housework on top of that, and then your business ... I'd see if you could put the business on the back boiler for a while. That, or re-consider childcare.

Lack of sleep? Lack of attention? Boredom? Teething?

Buy a book called playful parenting. Make the day fun and be silly. Enjoy the kids. Give them your full attention. After a while they will feel happier and more willing to play on their own, but it will take time and effort.

Get a cleaner so you can concentrate on the kids. Let the house be messier. Use a slow cooker. Keep meals simple. Work when the kids are sleeping. Use a sling for the baby.

I do think if you are happy, they pick up on it and are happy too. They are presently getting the attention they need through this whingy behavior. Negative attention is better then no attention.

we have all been there by the way. it does get better

I also think you need some 'me' time. Your partner needs to help out too.

Whingy 9 month old sounds like a tired grumpy one. Did you say 9pm bedtime... No wonder. Can you fix that? (I have a 10 month old and 3 year old)

My 10 month old likes to be carried a lot. She's awful when tired/grumpy.

Seriously, get some part time childcare or sort out naps so you can work while baby is asleep.

OP, I've read the same book and he doesn't say that all childcare, or even all nurseries are detrimental to the emotional health of under threes.

Most of us can manage childcare and a bit of housework. I don't know anyone who could look after 2 children with different nap times, keep a spotless house and work full time. So don't beat yourself up about it. You need to accept that you can't do it all.

Have you been to see some childcare providers? You might be surprised. If you want them at home then look into a nanny share or maybe a local college could help with finding a teenager who'd welcome the extra cash and experience. A few mornings a week would make all the difference.

If possible try and work on them napping at the same time. Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with a later bedtime providing they get enough sleep overall.

My dd loved her jumperoo at that age. Ours is set up near the kitchen so dd can bounce and talk to me while I wash up. We don't watch much TV so In The Night Garden buys me 20 mins of peace.
Your DH is being very unfair. He needs to do a greater share of the housework. Looking after children is a full time job. Will your youngest take a bottle / cup of expressed milk? It sounds as though you need to go out and leave him to manage them and the housework.

When my youngest was 11mo I started working 10 hours a week from home. I also had a 4yo ds who was at school. I did ALL my work when they had gone to bed, or occasionally when ds was at school and dd napping, but spent most of that time doing housework (just loading dishwasher and things, she was a terrible sleeper). It is impossible to work with two small child hanging off your legs. They are now 3 and 6 and it is still impossible to do any meaningful work with them around without parking them in front of the tv.

The only way I managed this was with the full support of dh who did loads when not at work. I managed to get things like hoovering, dusting and bathroom done in the day but he did things like bath, bedtime and clearing kitchen at night. Even then, as dd was still nto sleeping very well and I couldn't leave the dc in a room together for 5min without some major trauma, it was the hardest year of my life. You are trying to do far too much and your dp sounds like a bit of an arse.

You have my utmost sympathy as I would have cracked long ago trying to do all that on my own. There's some great advice on here that I can't really add to - hope you find some of it helpful and you manage to get a bit of a break soon.

"Your DS is crying because going into the cot isn't as much fun as being with Mum! But he needs the sleep. It is so, so hard to hear them cry"

so I just leave him to cry?

Also, if I put them down at the same time, the baby would disturb the toddler (they share a room).

HoldMeCloser - what type of constant attention would you give a 9 month old?

Another thing to consider toast, if you were an employee you probably just be going back to work after your 2nd lot of maternity!

DN started preschool just mornings at 2.5 and loves it - it might be worth seeing if your Dc likes it. you could take him at 9 and run any outdoors errands and a baby group foe dc2. get home for 11 and dc2 goes for a nap and you have your time till lunch - pick up dc1 then all 3 have lunch and pop to the park, back for a play and dc1 naps and you only have dc2 to occupy for a bit. if dh takes over when he gets home at 6 you can have more you time?

other than that - if the current situation isn't working then the au pair idea sounds good and they can deal with things when you're busy but around and do stuff like lunch and light cleaning?

I think 9 mths is a key time for separation anxiety so it might be worth investigating techniques for dealing wIth that.

it may also be that dc2 is at the brink of crawling (lots of frustration which drives the want time crawl) so it might get easier soon - but makes it tough right now.

a paddling pool full of balls might be a good toy for both dc right now?

For my 9mo, I am pretty much always in the same room as her (or if popping in to the next room for something, chatting away at the same time). It doesn't have to be something overtly stimulating or playing with her, but she wants me/DP in sight at all times. Sometimes we do some properly interactive, like play a game or read a book, and other times she plays with her toys and amuses herself - but she needs me sitting with her, talking and singing to her, generally pretending like I am involved. I find I can do odd tasks with her around and I can read a book or MNet, but nothing like work or a decent bit of housework.

I guess that's what people mean by 'constant interaction'. They might essentially be playing by themselves, but they need you there, chatting away, seeming to be involved with what they are doing.

ps at 9 months definitely 2-3 naps a day (skeep has been my cross to bear haha ) it's more to do with awake time and how much they can manage. ds is 20 months now and dropped to 1 nap at 14mths which was earlier than they usually drop to 1 nap. he can manage 5-6hrs awake so naps after lunch.

I have 3 kids..oldest 20,youngest 12.
My house has looked like a dump since the first one was born! It's just starting to turn a corner now, they are almost all grown up!
They have all survived...as have I . Dishes and stuff...wait till just before your husband's due...then do them. that's how I have got away with it for so long.
Don't let them go to bed so late...you need adult time. It is just tough if he's in too late to see them for long. Bedtime is Bedtime... 7 - 7.30pm is quite late enough!
And my husband is far more domestic than me anyway, I just let him get on with the grumping about it and the cleaning....and I used to stick to looking after our children. That's not to say that I was glued to them,far from it, but I did play with them and read books and sing songs a lot.
And then I went to work part-time too, and a friend took my youngest to mother and toddlers , with her little one, whilst my older two were at school,twice a week.
I think you need to give yourself a bit of a break and stop worrying . It's not easy,being a mum, but it's not rocket science,either.

Op you sound depressed and you need help, The way you speak about the little one worries me your workload and mood are affecting your relationship which could have serious consequences not a judgement, experience.

I've tried WAH for an employer plus a small business us all the housework plus one now two children, it does not work, something needs to give and I honestly believe child are is our best option. An in home nanny would cost the same as nursery and mean you can be there but not "on duty".

1 day of proper focused work is worth 4 of stressing and failing at everything with kids in tow. Trust me my own business has suffered.

Then the other days you can be focused on your kids all bar two hours when baby naps and toddler is engaged with a craft project where you can get cleaning done.

With more structure you will feel more in control but I would also seriously seek help at the gp because it already sounds like you are on the PND slope.

oh my God. Just had a huge argument with DH. He said I'm being unreasonable to expect him to do one more chore. He said I need to see a doctor if I'm not coping. I said that it's the circumstances that are leading me not to cope. He said that's bullshit; loads of other people cope. Loads of people have two kids and clean. He also said that if I didn't spend so much money I wouldn't need to run my business.

I feel so alone :( :( :(

OP, it's clear you are stretching yourself too thinly and it's all getting on top of you. You sound like the stress is causing you to diconnect somewhat from your children. It is fine to be anti-nursery - me and my Dh choose not to put our Ds in any form of childcare either - but you simply cannot be a full-time SAHM AND be a WAHM too, as well as keeping the house to a high level. Because being a SAHM is a full-time job in itself. You cannot do it properly if you're working as hard as you are, that's the stark truth.

The principles you believe in and are adhering too sound like the 'Hugger' in How Not To Fuck Them Up (basically Gentle or Attachment Parenting to anyone who hasn't read it), but you are putting those princiles into place without the most important factors - the emotional ones. Your Dc are not whinging, they are showing you that they need you and want you. It goes against all the principles you profess to be invested in to keep ignoring them by telling yourself that it should be ignored. Meeting children's needs is what makes them less whingy, less clingy, less needy because they feel safe and secure that their needs can be met when expressed. Ignoring them will create a vicious circle of more and more whining and whinging because they know they are being ignored and feel insecure about having needs met. It is only through feeling secure about having needs met that a child can have the emotional space in which to work out what are true and immediate needs and what they could fulfill for themselves or in another way, etc.

The stark truth is, that in your situation, it's the work and the housework that need you to have the metaphorical earplugs shoved in. It also sounds like your Dh is not particularly supportive and maybe expects you to keep up this impossible Superwoman act.

The most important thing is that those children get a lot of attention and love from someone who is truly present. You clearly aren't present right now and it's easy to understand why. Their needs can't be put off and put off until you hopefully get on top of things, not least because you never will overworking yourself like this, not to mention the damage it will cause them. Something has to give. You need more support and help from your husband, for a start. Being a SAHm and a WAHM means you are working harder than he can dream of. Working out of the home and possibly earning more does not mean he is The Big I Am who is excused from being involved in the running of his family and home.

You have to make a choice between being a SAHM or a working mother. You cannot do both simultaneously without help no more than you could simultaneously work as a teacher and a computer programmer.

He is being an idiot.

Keep posting, don't feel alone!! Its easier to clean if the kids aren't there all day, when they are it's a continuous cycle of clearing up their mess.