The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

I have read plenty of proper scientific research on the issue rather than one book!

You're anti them competing with other kids and being away from their primary carer, but you've actually used earplugs so you can ignore them.

Know which one I think is more damaging.

curiosity - another 2 years? My 2 year old will start nursery next year(?), then I will only have 1 kid to deal with, which will hopefully make things considerably less stressful?

If they dont go to bed until 9 then they are probably wingeing as they are over tired.
Try getting a routine of a day time nap and into bed by 7. They will be less tired and so will you.

Ooh yes! Hell I might even look into that!

To be honest I'd say spending days with a stressed mum who is doing her best to ignore them might have a detrimental effect. I'd say nursery was the lesser of two evils in that case.

Whinging is torturous. It's such a horrible noise and if children are going through a phase of it there's very little you can do apart from take them out and hope that stops them. As you are working at home, you do need some peace.

I know you really don't want to, I would seriously look into some nursery or childminder sessions for your 2yo. Also, are there any family members who could help you out? IME 9 months is a classic whinging time (so many developmental things going on) and you may well find things improve as and when milestones are achieved.

The only other thing you could try is to run them ragged all day so they are asleep by 7. That has saved my sanity time and time again. I couldn't survive without some peace in the evenings. If you did that you could maybe do some work in the evening?

"Why you would purposely restrict one of your senses I don't understand?"

• so I can't hear the winging? I thought that was obvious.

So day care is damaging for under 3's (with trained carers, child friendly equipment and surroundings) but it's not damaging to them for you to be in the same room wearing earplugs ?!

A 9 month old is not old enough to be amusing themselves all the time, they need interaction, that's why they are whining for attention.

Get some help in.

Nobody will actually be any happier with plan A though will they? I have pit ear plugs in to deal with a SCREAMING child to take the edge off, but going about other chores listening to an iPod still doesn't sound like a great plan.

EMS - what sort of constant attention is a mother expected to give? A genuine question, as I feel clueless. I read books, rotate toys, take them to baby & toddler groups. What else should I be doing?

But you can't hear anything else that way, you can't communicate with your children which certainly isn't going to improve anything.

How can ignoring a child be good for them?

I meant another 2 years until the little one can start nursery. I guess on their own they might be better?

cantspel - they do nap. But at different times. baby naps at 11. Toddler at 4 - hence why I'm here typing this - toddler is napping, and can you guess what the baby is doing? Oh yes - winging his head off. I swear I'm going to cry.

If you are working from home, I think you need to use some kind of childcare. If you worked for an employer, they would probably insist on this, and for good reason - it is not easy to work and care for small children at the same time, not if you want to do a good job of both things.

It doesn't have to be 'daycare', if by that you mean a nursery. You could consider a childminder, or even an au pair or nanny in your own home. I think it's possible to nanny-share with another family if you only need part-time hours.

For a cleaner you would probably be looking at about £10/hour, depending on where you are.

To those who say ignoring whining is wrong - what is the correct approach to wining?

It sounds as though the daily outing to soft play/mums n tots or whatever isn't enough for your2. They are whining because they want your attention. I suspect they get it, too, of they whine long and hard enough!

If you are trying to clean, tidy and run a business with two little ones around, you are likely to be driven mad. Daycare would be a child centred environment. Better that than everyone at home feeling bored, shouty and resentful.
At nursery, the staff play with the children all day long. Your children would be kept occupied, you could get on with your stuff, and they would be asleep by 7, guaranteed!

I hope you don't mind me sticking my oar in as a childminder... I have children from ages 6 months till they go to big school.

The whinging is from boredom.. social interaction is vital. What about taking the 2 yr old to a childminder a couple of mornings a week? He will have lots of activities (learn other things like sharing, difficult to learn at home where sharing isn't needed with a much younger sibling), he'll have a ball, it'll give you time to concentrate on your business - you'll probably get more done in 1 morning (and make more £££!!!Nullifying a CM cost) than two full days with total concentration. He will come home, tummy full, knackered, and have a good afternoon nap.

If there is no two year old whinging, the likelihood is that the baby will stop whinging too.. kids feed off each other.

Probably not what you want to hear. But ignoring the situation is only going to make him feel ignored and at a loss, when all he wants to do is play with mummy :)

tail - running ragged sounds good. Any ideas? I go to groups and soft play.

But alas, I think DH wouldn't like a 7pm bedtime, as he gets in at 6pm and so wouldn't have much time with the kids.

Is there no one else in the area who could take one of them for a 'play date' once a week? I have an 18 month and a nearly 3 yr old so know where you're coming from.
Do you have a partner who could muck in later on in the evenings? Do you structure play with them? If you don't want to think about nursery fair enough (although I disagree ) but they seem to like the structure/routine it gives them. Spend proper , full blown, undivided attention time with them for a couple of hours, go and play out, then encourage them to play alone watch Disney films whilst you get your bits and bobs done.
It IS hideous at times though isn't it

I wasn't saying you should be giving them more or different attention but you need, and seemed to be asking for a solution for when you need to be working and doing chores and IMO, child care is the solution because children need attention and its tough shit that you've got something else to be getting on with.
It's not your kids fault you're trying to be 3 things at once and if you can afford it, I think you should consider getting some help in.

You sound very resentful of the attention your children need. It also sounds like you have a lot on your plate. Do what you need to do to make life easier.

You don't get extra marks for martyrdom as a mother.
Decide on your priorities.
If the house and business are important to you: Either get some outside help
or let the housework drift and work on tiring them out until you get back to a 7pm bedtime. Then you can do the rest once they're in bed.

I wouldn't dismiss childcare so quickly.Going to a playgroup for a short period is a whole lot better than staying home with a Mum who is trying to ignore you all day and can actually be a very positive experience. Or try a childminder if you want a more family like environment.

"A 9 month old is not old enough to be amusing themselves all the time, they need interaction, that's why they are whining for attention."

• constant interaction? Can you give some examples please

Ignoring will only lead to them doing more whinging until they get the attention they want.

Does your 2 year old play alone?

I would try to bring bedtime forward as much as possible so you get your evenings to yourself so you get some time to relax.