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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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The kids winge and cry

680 replies

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 16:01

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

OP posts:
MainlyMaynie · 16/10/2012 15:47

Glad to see you had this moved, hopefully the wise people will be along soon!

AllPastYears · 16/10/2012 15:55

OP, you seem obsessed with the tax you are paying on a single salary.

I put the figures for 50k into a tax calculator.

One 50k salary = 35,559
Two 25k salaries = 19532 x 2 = 39064

A difference of 3505. Not that much really considering the amount he's earning. Incidentally the diet coke at 18 per week costs you 936 per year. Up to you what you spend your money on of course...

AllPastYears · 16/10/2012 15:56

Incidentally, I think you've been taking far too much notice of what he says about finances, e.g. the cost of running a tumble dryer. You can easily do your own research.

SirBoobAlot · 16/10/2012 15:58

AllPast, read the latest post before commenting. I don't think tax is at the forefront of the OPs mind right now.

OxfordBags · 16/10/2012 16:26

OP, am so sorry it has come to this for you, but at least the scales are falling from your eyes now and you are seeing that you are in an abusive relationship. But you cannot pretend that something drastic has to happen now. You can't get drunk and block it out and much more importantly, you can't keep your precious DC in that toxic situation. Although the ideal scenario would be to kick him out, do not sacrifice your children's emotional health and safety on the altar of your shame.

Before you mentioned your mum's Mh issues, I had already asked upthread if people or things in your childhood had made you feel ashamed and needing to keep up appearances and put a brave face on things, etc. Knowing that about her makes so much sense about your reactions and what you say. You sound as though you will do anything, go through anything, and - sorry to be cruel to be kind - allow or expect your kids to go through anything to avoid feeling shame. But please try to see that the only person who should be ashamed of is your foul pig of an excuse for a husband. How could a refuge be worse than living in an atmosphere where you, the meaning and end of their universe is being abused?

Now you have discovered his lies and crap, he is escalating. The abuse he's been doling out has stopped being effecient and you've started to display needs and personality of your own, so he had to up the abuse and hurt, scare and bruise you to get you back in line. I feel it's inevitable that the physical abuse will continue. And once you try to confront him about that then he'll have to find new ways of putting you in your place. Many abusers start hurting their children to keep their mother in line. For all that he moans about you spending, the way he talks about it to you really sounds strongly to me like it's just a handy thing for him to belittle you over. He knows that spending has become the drug eith which you numb yoursrlf and delude yourself briefly that life is okay, and he needs you to keep kidding yourself that way. It's a toxic muddle, for sure.

Oh, and not that the money issue is the most important factor right now, but please, please stop believing him about the cash. After he is taxed, he has over £10,000 more a year than we do before tax, and we could afford the things he refuses you (tumble dryer, Relate, etc. Although don't go to Relate, as a victim should not have counselling with her abuser, as he'll use it to justify himself and find new potential avenues for cruelty).

Jax2218 · 16/10/2012 16:26

I put my daughter into daycare one afternoon a week when she was 2 and her brother was under 1. She loved it, it was her special time to have a break and have her own life for a few hours. She was a particularly whingy baby, looking back I didn't engage her enough. Some babies just need more than other kids. The winging is their way of explaining they need more. I would ignore whining and up your enthusiasm in play and lots of praise!

Play blocks or something constructive following their lead and encourage their own choices. The 9 month old not so much, maybe make some 'discovery boxes' just bits and pieces that are safe for them to explore. It's hard to find the time, encourage your toddler to help you. Maybe a few afternoons a week wouldn't be bad to ease your time.

Jax2218 · 16/10/2012 16:28

A few afternoons in nursery I mean.

amverytired · 16/10/2012 16:28

Burnttoast - I'm glad you have your friend to talk to.

Please don't consider relate - I know it's difficult for you to fully accept but the relationship you are in is abusive. Financially abusive at the very least, emotionally abusive also.

You have PND - which makes his treatment of you even more horrible.
You might be needy (I know I was when I had PND) and feel that your own behaviour is to blame for your dh's (I know I did when my dh was emotionally abusive to me) - but the reality is you need and deserve more support right now. It is simply cruel the way he has treated you.

Is your gp or HV approachable? Can you explain the situation to him/her?

There is a great thread in the relationship section - 'support for those in emotionally abusive relationships' have a look.

MainlyMaynie · 16/10/2012 16:28

FFS, read the thread.

BurntToastSmell · 16/10/2012 17:05

"Thinking it through, I think there are a number of issues here. It's actually not the worst thing in the world to do, to put off coming home for an hour in order to get a bit of personal space. I don't like the fact that he has been lying about where he is, but he certainly wouldn't be the first to do this, and he won't be the last, and I see it as more minor than the other things you are telling us."

But he lies, saying that he works non-stop without a break. He says this angrily when I ask for support.

Boffin - the children didn't see but they would have 'heard' because DH is very loud when he argues, and has no consideration for the kids feelings (I think I've posted about this on MN before).

"you may have to rehearse some sort of permanent separation in your mind"

can you ellaborate on what you mean?

Re: drinking, I have no other source of comfort. I can't eat because I feel so ill to my stomach. Drinking numbs all this crap, at least for a few hours.

Mainly - are you in ST?

Boffin - I really don't know about the police. It would tears the children apart to not see their dad' also if DH gets taken away - I have no money to survive on (food for example).

OP posts:
TantrumsAndBalloons · 16/10/2012 17:15

I know it's scary. I know you think you won't cope, financially or emotionally. I know you think it will upset your DCs and you will feel as though you have failed.
All those feelings are perfectly normal.

But take a good long look at your relationship.
You have already Realised your h is financially abusive. He has lied to you, belittled you and now physically hurt you.
He is trying to blame you for causing the marriage breakdown.

Now fast forward 5 years. What do you think your relationship will look like? Will you still be worried about money because he won't let you in on the family finances? Will you be afraid to ask for help in case he hurts you? Will you still be struggling to cope with 2 DCs, PND, etc?
Will you be wondering every day if he is really at work or at the pub?

And your children will pick up on this.
And....this is very important
you deserve better

BurntToastSmell · 16/10/2012 17:16

"How could a refuge be worse than living in an atmosphere where you, the meaning and end of their universe is being abused? "

It's not the shame of a refuge, it's the disruption to the kids lives, and yes, also to mine. I value familiarity and 'home comforts' as bizarre as that may sound. I'm a very anxious person and a refuse would push me over the edge.

You are however, right about my mum and 'shame'. This was always a big issue with her and it screwed her priorities. I haven't spoken to my mum for 4 months (the longest time ever) and I don't want to have contact with her any time soon. For my and my children's sake.

"He knows that spending has become the drug eith which you numb yoursrlf and delude yourself briefly that life is okay"

This is very true indeed. You know your stuff. Buying things is the way I 'treat myself', even if 90% of the stuff is for the kids, it still makes me feel good, probably in the way that a cigg makes a stressed smoker feel.

amverytired - thank you. Good advice. Re: relate, surely a relate counsellor will be able to tell him that he is unreasonable?

OP posts:
BessieMcBean · 16/10/2012 17:19

After reading the first pages I was going to write that I believe that children pick up on their mother's emotions so if you are down and unhappy the children are more likely to be clingy and whingey.
Now reading further on I think you must get away from this sad relationship for their sakes as much as yours.

Also reading You sound as though you will do anything, go through anything, and - sorry to be cruel to be kind - allow or expect your kids to go through anything to avoid feeling shame brought back memories for me as the eldest daughter of an alcoholic. Yes, you are obsessed with not being embarrassed in front of others, or having them look down on you.

It's taken me forever to learn this about myself, and now I know aboutit feel such freedom to be myself. But it had a detrimental effect on most of my life, don't let it control yours OP.

You DH is messing up your head. I would start arranging for the situation of being on your own. Ok it might not happen but if you concentrated on that instead of being sidetracked by unimportant stuff (?tax WTF) when your life needs to be calmed and clearer you might get somewhere.

Speak to WA, CAB, Solicitor. Find out where you stand. THEN form a position of control look at everything else.

BurntToastSmell · 16/10/2012 17:23

"Now fast forward 5 years. What do you think your relationship will look like? Will you still be worried about money because he won't let you in on the family finances? Will you be afraid to ask for help in case he hurts you? Will you still be struggling to cope with 2 DCs, PND, etc?
Will you be wondering every day if he is really at work or at the pub?"

The answer to your questions is sadly yes. However (and I feel this is important), most of the time I am contented with life, but with occassional utterly horrible patches like this one. Most of the time I am perfectly happy going about my routine, buying crap on ebay, seeing friends at baby groups, and going to the gym. Months can go by when I don't cry, and me and the children are happy for months at a time; they thrive (strangely, DH always seems like a misery guts, no matter what is going on; i try to ignore his gloomyness).

OP posts:
MainlyMaynie · 16/10/2012 17:24

I'm from the area, but live abroad at the minute.

I don't blame you for wanting to drink, but I'm sure you realise it's not a great idea!

BurntToastSmell · 16/10/2012 17:24

Bessie - what kind of info can the CAB offer?

OP posts:
tanfastic · 16/10/2012 17:25

I've not read the whole thread but I run an online business and it's impossible to apply your mind to anything related to work when you have the distraction of a toddler. Impossible. I've tried and it quite simply does not work.

You either have to do any work related stuff when they are in bed (exhausting I know but there you go) or put them
In nursery. It's as simple as that Smile

IvanaNap · 16/10/2012 17:29

Side issue; are you still BFing?
Only you can decide what happens now but clearly any physical attack is unacceptable, that needs addressing first and foremost. The rest of it is irrelevant by comparison.

showtunesgirl · 16/10/2012 17:30

Would people PLEASE read the whole thread FFS!

OP, I don't think you quite realise that the physical abuse is extremely unlikely to stop here. It's extremely likely that it will escalate. Please get some help. Sad

TantrumsAndBalloons · 16/10/2012 17:33

You can get plenty of information about what help you would be entitled to if you did decide to seperate.
I think you have to start to understand that your h is not going to give you access to the family finances at all and he will continue to blame this on you.
He is being, at the least financially abusive.

showtunesgirl · 16/10/2012 17:49

OP, you said: The answer to your questions is sadly yes. However (and I feel this is important), most of the time I am contented with life, but with occassional utterly horrible patches like this one. Most of the time I am perfectly happy going about my routine, buying crap on ebay, seeing friends at baby groups, and going to the gym. Months can go by when I don't cry, and me and the children are happy for months at a time; they thrive (strangely, DH always seems like a misery guts, no matter what is going on; i try to ignore his gloomyness).

The horrible patches in the future are likely to manifest in more physical abuse.

And you have already said above that he would like to start restricting your daily routine such as going to the gym.

BessieMcBean · 16/10/2012 17:54

Citizens Advice Bureau. I was looking at their website for a summary of their help but as far as I can see they give advice on everything. You can email them but talking face to face is best imo.

So they could direct you for advice on single parent allowances, what housing options are available if you want to split from DH for a while, financial and tax advice, where to get legal advice. Where to get advice if you feel you need to know about nurseries. GPs and health visitors can be useful too.

Just talking about your worries to someone with no involvement can help to clarify your thoughts so that you can make the correct decisions. That would be a great first step for you, to make use of the experts that are out there.

ladythatlunches · 16/10/2012 18:16

I feel really sorry for you, my second child was very very much like this, she had me in tears!! I have 5 children now, It sounds to me like you are doing your best but just have a fussy baby!!

I spoke to my doctor as I thought something was wrong with her and she said when it all gets too much put the baby in safe place cot/playpen and just take a little while! Unless you have had a constant crier I don't think you can understand how hard it is, it affected my relationship with my other child and dh!!

The only light I can give you is that it does get easier and my others were never like that, I have 9 months old twins and they will happily play while I get on!

mummytime · 16/10/2012 18:18

Call Women's aid.
Call the CAB.
Make some appointments with solicitors for free 1/2 hours (if only so he can't use them).
Go and see your GP.
Talk to people in RL.

BoffinMum · 16/10/2012 18:26

I agree, I think you really need to talk to someone in RL, maybe print off all our comments and take them with you?

This is not a good situation at all. Sad