The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

I am sorry you are struggling so much and I don't want to add to your problems but ...

I would give some serious consideration to weaning yourself off the diet coke , going by the amount you are spending I am guessing you are drinking nearly two litres a day , the caffeine alone is not going to help your mood .

The other thing is your flat , you say that the children are ok outside the home but coming back through the door sets them off , do you have plenty of clean air ? Are the windows opened every day ?

I can see why your dh doesn't want to have a joint account because of your admitted way with money but he has to be willing to sit down with you and explain where the money goes . Unless you are in some serious debt with a huge mortgage then the money just isn't adding up .

Nobody is Mary Poppins , we all try our best with the things we are good at , and deligate the things we find a bit tedious .

Good luck .

I'm sorry this thread has gone a bit wring toast just hope you can have a read through when you feel calmer and pick out the helpful bits.

Like I said earlier I was in a flat, it's really hard when you don't have the space you feel penned in. I think my ds used to get upset when we went in too, he seems happier to come home now.

Even if you can't sell it, have you thought about renting it out, rentals are strong at the moment and it may cover a lot of your costs so you can rent s house.

I know lots of people are doing this.

I couldn't have friends in as it was too small. I started to hate the place even though it's a lovely flat.

Big thumbs up to Boffin.

It is hard to hear, but you are ranking being home with a mum who is overworked, overtired, miserable and struggling

over

a few hours of something (cleaner/teen girl mother's helper/childcare) and a happier more relaxed home life.

I am not pro-childcare, I was a nanny for ten years and love spending time with young kids so it was a no-brainer to stay home and play with my kids. If you don't enjoy this and it stresses you out and makes you miserable it is not the best situation for your kids or you... regardless of what a book or study says.

OP, that's not a quote from the Oliver James book 'how not to fuck them up'. He specifically clarified that he thinks QUALITY childcare (not always nursery) is better for a child than a depressed frustrated parent. You are cherry-picking and paraphrasing that book to justify throwing up a massive brick wall against perfectly reasonable suggestions.

He described three types of mothers (by which, he clarifies, he really means parents). The 'hugger' mother, who is responsive to the childs needs above her own and is fulfilled and happy centring everything she does around the baby, the 'organiser' who requires logic, routine and planning to feel happy and fulfilled and is not suited to full time solo childcare and the 'flexi-mum' who is a bit of both.

You seem to want to be all three simultaneously. You cannot be a devoted and happy full time parent, utterly rejecting the idea of any help with childcare while trying to work on your own business. You cannot be a successful happy business owner while trying to look after two tiny children and breastfeed alone.

You can do everything but NOT all at the same time.

I put my 2 year toddler in nursery two weeks ago for 3 morning plays and until then cared for him alone so am not a defensive nursery advocating parent trying to justify my choices in the face of your disapproval. (although your disapproval of parents who do use childcare from babyhood reads as ill-informed).

Your choices are not working for your family. Back down and re-evaluate.

Hear, hear, Osterley.

The important thing is to know yourself, be kind to yourself, and not judge yourself too harshly (or others, for that matter).

You ok op? Please come back onto the thread.

OP, hope you are ok. Please don't feel bad about the choices you are making. Your lovely children are going to grow up just fine, into wonderful adults. You are not damaging or hurting them, you are doing the that you can as a mum, and what more can anyone ask for.

But please focus on you. You deserve the same consideration as anyone else in your family. Do fun things for yourself, get a good laugh in, treat yourself to something that makes you feel special.

There is no reason to feel guilty. You don't have to be a perfect mum or wife. You just have to be comfortable in your own skin and with your choices. Please do whatever you feel is right, and we are all here to support you, (although we all have our different opinions on stuff) and we are here for you when you need to vent or a shoulder to lean on, ok?

Evening, Burnt. I've been out today and come back to a thread twice as long as it was this morning! Hope you are OK.

It seems to me there are three key points:

1. The 'quick fix' is the caffeine. You are drinking loads of diet coke. Most people aren't aware, but diet coke has about a third of the caffeine content of coffee - and since you are drinking several litres of it a day, this will be equivalent to several cups of coffee. You are breastfeeding, and some caffeine passes through breast milk, so your baby is directly absorbing it. The caffeine you are drinking will make him agitated - it is possible that this all by itself could account for his 'whingyness'. I strongly suggest you gradually cut down how much of it you're drinking (I say 'gradually' because if you do it suddenly, you and your baby will get caffeine withdrawal symptoms like headaches).

1. You are giving yourself a really hard time. You don't have to be perfect (honest!) and you already are good enough! Cut yourself some slack. :) If you can worry less about mess, money, other people's opinions, etc. you will be happier. :)

1. Meanwhile, you are unhappy and stressed and your children are probably picking up on that. It's not good for them. There is a lot of evidence that stressed mums make stressed babies/children, and that there can be long term effects as a result. It also becomes a vicious circle: you are stressed so your kids are stressed so you are stressed, and so on :( I think you know this is true from your own experience, and since you very obviously want the best for your children, you also know you need to do something about it. Personally, in a similar situation I chose to do nice things for myself and use a childminder to bring someone else who was less stressed into my children's lives. I really do think it makes sense. But if you are still dead-set against using childcare, and want to be a full-time SAHM, then you need to focus on lowering your stress and improving your well-being.

You'll know much better than me what makes you feel happy. But maybe this info will help...
Research shows that you can improve your well-being and mental health with these five steps :

• Connecting with other people
• Being active
• Keeping learning
• Giving to others
• Taking notice/being aware of your surroundings

We all go up and down with all of these (having days when we don't see other people or aren't active, for instance) but as a general rule, we're happier if we can do all of these, and less happy if we can't/don't. (BTW, this is not just some cranky theory: it is well-founded research and now official UK government health advice! My only criticism is that they've missed out eating chocolate and having someone who still speaks to you if you shout at them ) If you click on the link you'll find lots of ideas for things to do that will help your well-being. :)

Burnt, know you probably don't believe it, but people are just tying to help you here, because a lot of them have been where you are now, if not in entirely the same situation, then at least a part of it. This thread combined with your others paints quite a concerning portrait of someone who is obviously at the end of their tether. I really hope you get some RL support.

This thread has made me really sad.

OP, I am currently coming to the end of my ML and when I go back to work DD will be three weeks shy of a year. During this last year, we have been living off one income which is brought home by my DH which is half of what your DH earns and we live in London and still manage.

I have struggled like all mums struggle but they key difference is that I can talk to my DH and though he has been away a lot because of work, when he's here, he parents equally.

I too have fallen into the trap of sometimes wanting to be Mary Poppins and that way madness lies.

From reading through this thread it sounds as though you're trying to make everyone else but yourself happy. Making yourself happy should also be part of the equation of creating a happy household.

Take care of yourself OP.

What struck me is the fact that you are not quite sure how to play with your children and I completely sympathise with that. I spent a lot of time doing "craft", hating every minute of it and getting stressed. Life got much more fun for everyone when I made the things I liked to do into a game for them. And when I stopped buying them toys as a substitute for my attention.

BUT you do need to alter your expectations - small children often need constant attention and responsiveness. If you are a SAHM that is your job. The rest of it (shopping/cleaning/washing etc) has to be done around your job, just as it is for WOHMs.

The money thing is weird but it sounds like you have been reckless in the past and still are. Still, you need to tackle that rather than have your husband treat you as a child.

As for working when your children are around, I'm sorry to say mine are now 7 and 4 and still create a fuss if I try to work in the house at the weekends...

finding childcare mind-numbing.

That is fine. There are lots of jobs I'd find mind numbing. But you should probably leave it to people who don't find it mind-numbing, instead of pretending you are caring for your children.

It looks like you don't actually like children, and are not really fond of spending time with yours.

They deserve more than a carer who considers putting on earphones not to hear them.

To be honest, it's been said but childcare is not evil. I had the worst velcro baby in DD (15mo). She would not be put down and I struggled to get anything done, would go apoplectic when I left the room and would not be held by anyone except me, DH or my mum. Then I had to go back to work after extending my mat leave with a career break. I thought she would be an emotional wreck and nursery and got seriously stressed and nuts over it (in spite of DS (2.10) going there and loving it). As it turns out it has done her the power of good, in a month of me being back the change to her development (esp physically as she would cling to me constantly before) has been amazing. She is so so much more confident, independent and overall just sunny and cheerful. She has always been a great talker and easily able to understand things but just wouldn't move really. As I type this she is off crawling about, playing independently, making a mess etc. No need for me (well not quite true, she is still bf and we co sleep). Yesterday she was happily held by my SIL (first time ever) and I have actually gone out for the day a couple of times and come home to a perfectly cheerful child.

I totally credit nursery with this, she is a bright child and is thriving in that environment. She loves painting and drawing, and all the other activities they do there. My DS also loves it, and I am so glad I decided to go back to work (part-time) because I am so much happier and fulfilled on the days I have them to myself instead of feeling short-tempered and suffocated.

You can tell me childcare had damaged my kids til you're blue in the face but I know we are all happier with the current set up (2.5 days in nursery, 0.5 with GPs and remaining 4 with me).

Op. I was against nursery. For no other reason than the fact I wanted to be with my children in the early years. However things changed, I split up with stbxh and became a lone parent to the four of them. I realised working in a low paid, anti social hours job wasn't going to help me or my kids in the future so went to college. Meaning nursery for my younger two (2 and now 4 though was 3 at the time)

They absolutely love their nursery. They can't wait to go and on the two days they can't, ask to go. My youngest talking has come on so much, they play together much better and my 4 year old whines a lot less than when he was home with me madly trying to keep on top of house, bills and four kids. If its at all possible to do nursery, even a half day a week, I would really consider it.

As for music...it's never off in my house. I love music and it makes me cheerful. Tad a result, my kids also love music and sing, dance, ask for me to put songs on. There is nothing wrong with some background noise that you actually like to distract from whiny days. Just not so loud you can't actually hear yourself think.

Things will get easier soon too. I have done two girls with a 14 month age gap and two boys with a 16 month age gap. That time when the youngest was frustrated and bored at around 9 months always coincided with the whiny terrible twos stage, but it doesn't last forever. 9 months ago I could have happily cut out my own ear drums! Ds1 whined over everything and ds2 wanted to do everything ds1 was doing but with no concept of being nice drive me bonkers! Fast forward to now and they are both sat in the lounge playing together and laughing. Hang on in there!

That book, How Not To Fuck Up, that you swear by, did it happen to mention that inflicting your misery and resentment on your kids is not terribly good for them? That it's not about you and how "annoying" you find them, but that you are the keeper of their well being? That 0-3 are the crucial years for neural pathway development and that their emotional wellbeing is crucial to this process? That it is not who provides the day to day care that is most important so long as the care is kind, consistent and allows for genuine play-based learning?

I think you are likely to be trying to get too much done and ignoring them. Fine if you wish to keep them from nursery, I did the same, but you have to keep them occupied.

morning burnt hope you're ok? Had a thought, with your 10 month old has he/she got a walker? mine LOVED hers before she could walk, even if they can't get it moving they love being upright, with some toys in front, and 2 yr old could push them about!!
You've prob got one, really think they're just bored though, and i can't even check my emails in peace, so expecting to be able to work is just unrealistic love. Hope you find a solution soon, they are out there!!

Both my DCs loved their baby bouncers at 10 months

I think OP has left the thread.

Oh Burnt - I just want to come and hug you.

You sound like you are drowning. I did come to the thread to post about the finances but some one up thread has already done that.

When my DD was born I nearly lost the plot. I had an almost 3yo DS and he nealry drove me mad. I now realise that I had PND. I just wanted him to shut up and leave me alone. I was a wreck. And that was without all the financial stresses you seem to be under. The best thing that happened to me was Sure Start. I went to a BF group there, the support worker recognised a woman on the edge and organised 3 afternoons a week at nursery for DS. He got attention from others, I got time with DD without being worried that DS would kick off, I got a little time to do housey stuff and we all felt a whole heap better!

To reiterate the financial stuff - sweety, you might bring in more money if both of you worked BUT you wold pay out more in the dreaded childcare. Your DH is talking out of his arse on that one.

Please, get some help. For your sake and the sake of your two wee ones.

I wish op would pop in again

Sorry guys. I really didn't want to drag up this thread again, but there's been recent developments and my head is bursting with confusion, anger, dispair. I could do with some advice. But if anyone gets bitchy I will have to leave because I can't mentally handle any attacks right now.

Basically I've found out that DH has been lying to me. Instead of finishing work at 5pm (thus getting home for 6pm), he's been in fact finishing work at 4pm then going to his mates for an hour (a beer, a trip to the coast, pub, whatever takes his fancy) then coming home. This is despite him knowing that I've been on my knees struggling. This is despite him saying things like, "I get no breaks; I'm exhauated too; I don't stop working till the kids are in bed".

I don't know how long this lying has been going on. I only found out because his friend tagged him in photos on Facebook at times when he should have been at work. When I confronted him about it (I made sure the kids were in a different room) he said it was true! He admitted seeing his mate (although wouldn't give specific details about how regularly it's been happening). He also got very angry and started shouting at me. He grabbed me on the arms and shuck me (I've got bruses there now) and yes, I tried to hit back. Then when he couldn't be arsed to listen to me anymore he walked back into the room where the kids were, so obviously I couldn't follow and continue the argument/conversation in front of the kids.

This all happened last night. I gave our baby his bedtime breastfeed then went to my friends and stayed there till 1am. I couldn't bare to be anywhere near DH.

But now what?

I have contacted a domestic violence/abuse/womans-aid-type organisation and am waiting for them to return my call. I plan to visit them for some advice about my options. I don't know if I want to stay or leave (it's not the man-handling that is making me consider leaving - it's the lying and blatant disrespect; failure to see me as an equal).

I sent him the following email at 9am this morning but haven't heard anything back yet:

I need to ask several questions. I have numbered them to make it easier for you to reply.

1. One day this week (I suggest Saturday), we need to sit down and go through all the finances with a long-toothed comb. I need to see all outgoings and incomings, all bills, statements, etc. We can drop the kids off at your dads for an hour or so while we do this. Is Saturday convenient for you?

1. I need to be added to your bank account to make it a joint account. When will this be done?

1. What time do you actually finish work today? I need to some work online.

1. Does Jim [note: this is the friend he's been seeing] know that I haven't been aware of your whereabouts? (I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong).

V.Quick but wanted to reply asap:-
Take photos now of bruises.
Get yours and DCs important docs together.
Eat and drink something warm and sweet.
Stay Warm.
Keep Posting.

OP I think it would be a really good idea to get this thread moved to relationships so you get kinder responses rather than a tongue-lashing.

I'm not sure about your list of questions... why do you need to know the finances all of a sudden? I'm not suggesting you shouldn't have this information, I'm just not understanding why it is your most pressing worry.

Clearly you & your dh are feeling hugely pressured and your family life is imploding. You two need to talk, really talk, but this can be v difficult for men. I think you need to list your problems e.g. exhaustion, childcare, feeling supported etc and try to work through them together, one at a time. You cannot do it all in one hit.