The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

I think you need a bit of space to think about what you want and what you can and cannot tolerate in your DH's behaviour. I also think your DH needs a bit of a fright and to realise you are serious. Could you and the kids go stay with family or friends for a few days to get a little distance? I'm so sorry you are going through this.

"this can be v difficult for men" not really. Emotional fuckwits; yes.
Second the idea to get moved to relationships though. And getting the hell away as Osterly said; today.

Just taken photos.

Re: bringing up the finances; when I saw my friend last night, I told her everything, and the finances were what shocked her the most. That, combined with the comments on this thread, have brought it all home. He's taking the piss. He has no respect for me. He's treating me like a child (when I say this to him he says, stop acting like one).

Re: space, I have no family members I can stay with. My dad is dead and I'm estranged from my mum because she has mental health issues. There's literally no where I can go.

Disagree with your questions; whilst you might be trying to be polite and civil, you're just giving him control of the situation.

Take photos of your bruises, and go somewhere else. Now. This guy is a prize prick, has no respect for you in so many ways, and you are better off as far away from him as you can be.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

Do you want to leave?
Is that your long term plan?

What about the friend you spoke with? You could do with time and space to get your head together, figure out what you want, consider next steps.

Oh burnt I'm sorry.

This time last week I'd have said yes, you need to know the answers to those questions but now I think you need to get out and quickly.

He has zero respect and I think you'll be happier on your own. I'm glad you had a friend you could go to.

Ivana - she has two kids of her own. I can't inflict me and my kids on her in her small house.

Here's what my idea scenario would be according to the way I'm feeling right now): He leaves (I don't care where he goes). I stay in my home with the kids (they do not need anymore distruption; plus, my whole social network is here - the baby groups, friends - things that help me stay on the right side of sane). He would have to pay maintenence so we can survive.

By the way, he's just replied to my questions:

1. Since you bully me, and are totally unreasonable I will only do this at something like relate
2. When I asked you to stop spending on paypal you continued to burn through money and then blamed it on me for not changing the password so no way.
3. The ebay pickup is in Cramlington at 5.10 but I expect to be home by around 6
4. Ridiculous question

Then he sent these questions:

A. In future if you want to go to gym classes make sure you can get there and back yourself, I am not your taxi
B. Do you have any idea how close you are coming to ending this marraige? you still think you've done nothing wrong, we are in serious trouble.
C. Do you have any idea ( you just don't care ) how much you've hurt me? ( all I will get in response is "no it's you've that hurts me. I never do anything wrong" )

Any advice on how to reply to this? Basically he's trying to take away my ability to go to the gym (I don't drive and the class is far away). Also he is making out as if I've somehow done something wrong here (which I expected him to do). But does he truly believe this? Is he really that narcassistic? What can I do now?

Burnt, Relate might not be a bad idea at all. It sounds like you are both hurting and unhappy with the current situation, and having a neutral setting with a trained mediator might help you both work out what you want.

Meantime, make (if you don't already have one) your emergency exit plan: if you had to leave the house right now what could you grab and take with you?

Sorry, didn't answer your question about how to reply.

Suggest something brief like

We can't carry on like this. We need to get some help (together). I will make an appointment with Relate as soon as possible

And don't get drawn into the back and forth bullet fire emails

PS I am not in any way making excuses for your husband's behaviour. But I know a fair few men who delay getting home until their children have had their baths, and maybe even gone to bed, because they just don't want to have to deal with that stuff. If he also knows other people who do this, he might not think it a big deal (though he must get that lying about it is completely unacceptable)

Oh Burnt :( I'm so sorry I am this has happened. Sounds like you are doing the right things.

He is being an absolute arse. I would not recommend going to Relate with a man who assaulted you when you (quite rightly) called him on the fact that he's ducking out of his family responsibilities. The gym is a side issue. He's trying to dodge the real issue by attacking you verbally.

I would wait and see what WA say but I would tell him to move out for a few days to give you space to think.

You know men who avoid going home until the kids are all bathed and beded? That's ridiculous, they aren't men they're fucking idiots.

Burnt I have two young ones myself and barely 'know' you - but would gladly offer use of an airbed, travel cot and sofa if you were near me and not a hairy trucker called Dave to give you some breathing space and time away from your financially and emotionally abusive H.

Don't reply - don't feed his power rush - do not engage. But do call the non emergency police and report his violent outburst. This is becoming an increasingly volatile situation, it is time for you to take control.

The gym thing, it's just a way of having control isn't it?
Because you have started to want to take some financial control, he's now trying to take something back from you, to get back at you.

It's childish and ridiculous on his part.

Do you want to go to relate?

Families - I'm open to Relate, but he brings it up every time we argue yet never does anything about it. Relate charge £40 an hour and we cannot afford that.

"I know a fair few men who delay getting home until their children have had their baths, and maybe even gone to bed, because they just don't want to have to deal with that stuff. "

DH knows that I'm struggling. Also he says things like, he never gets a break, which is obviously a lie. He really hates me doesn't he?

AW are not being very useful. I tried to speak to someone 3 times but I was always told the appropriate people were in meetings. I gave them my number, they eventually phoned back, asked me a few questions, then said I was "standard risk" and she would need to pass me onto someone else. So they're ringing later.

Ivana - what would the police do?

Wait a sec, Burnt I have a good link that will explain.

AW = WA.

typo.

I don't think Relate is any use in abusive relationships, which is what this is. Do not let him turn things around on you - he has been financially abusing you (you spend on paypal, so fucking what, he didn't pay the MORTGAGE), emotionally abusing you and now he has turned violent. Report this thread and get it moved to relationships, where there are people who will give you great advice.

Personally I would reply to his email saying something like 'Clearly there is no point trying to have a reasonable discussion prior to us separating. Since your violence last night, I would ask that you do not return to live at the flat. I will arrange for a friend to be here so you can collect your things. My solicitor will contact you to arrange the finances.'

I'm not sure you should leave (assuming no more physical abuse). IF you can get him to go, you will be in a much stronger position. Ask him to move out and agree to see relate with a view to saving the marriage or extracting yourselves from it with as little upset to the kids and yourselves as possible.

I don't suppose he will move out, but that will be best for you and the kids. Op approach it from what is best for the kids. He might do it for them. He won't if you make it about you.

Be calm and reasonable in discussions. Don't do it by text. Keep your temper, no matter how he baits you. Try to focus on the kids and their needs. Accept some responsibility for the marriage going wrong, especially with regard to your overspending. Don't blame it all on him. Use "I feel ....... "" or "this makes me feel...." rather than accuse him and make him defensive. Avoid "you do this and that". Say that you've both made mistakes. The situation can't go on. Where do we go on from here? Then discuss calmly what you both want and the best way to do it.

Relate may be the answer if you want to save the marriage. A mediator may be necessary to sort practicalities of finance/house and children if the marriage is beyond repair. Do not move out though, unless you are scared not to. You may have to pay for a mediator, especially if you want it sorted quickly but don't spend hours shouting at each other and going round and round in circles.

Sorry it has come to this.

Here - Offred's post at 09:16:32 - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1552195-Whether-to-call-the-police-after-violence#33838982 I have no idea as to the scale of things re:questioning your H as apposed to arresting but the very least they can do is advise you, before ever you give your specifics.

How about

I would like you to move out for the time being . We can not go on like this any longer. We could look at Relate for the future. You are clearly unhappy as you put off coming home to greet your children and support me and i know i am too. I have nowhere to go so suggest you stay at a friend's.?

Please stop with the 'we can't afford' - it has become obvious that you can't trust a word that comes out of his mouth. You openly admit you are clueless about the finances. But that, and the children's whinging, are side issues for now.

Your safety, and that of DC, is paramount.

And to echo what Mainly and Dowagers said - counselling is a non-starter in abusive relationships

From my vague knowledge, there is Emotional Abuse, Financial Abuse and Domestic Violence - this is pretty much ticking all three of those. :(

It's up to you OP. Take things further, get away, tell him to stay away etc. - maybe consider re-posting in Relationships, with specific questions that people over there will help with (though I have reported your OP to ask for it to be moved).