The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

I agree that he's picking up on your depression... do you cuddle your children a lot? Smile at them and tell them you love them? That's what they probably need more than anything.

Even if you don't feel like it do it. Fake it to make it.

I would also say at the end of a long day the baby is probably tired. Wind down with some tv and a cuddle. Read a book to them or sing softly... put the music channels on and sing to them. If you are calm they will be calmer.

OP - get your backside to a GP, a nursery & a relate counsellor.

You need to take action for the sake of yourself & your children.

Putting bloody earplugs in so you can ignore kids. I thought I'd heard it all, I really did.

I also agree 're the breastfeeding and caffeine. You can't really drink 18 pounds worth a coke a week and wonder why your breastfed baby is crying and whiney.

Oh god I hadn't thought about that.

I sort of knew that outburst was coming OP.

You feel totally trapped and very miserable. There is a lot of sensible advice on this thread (well - mainly before you kicked off) but you are not in a position to listen to it, let alone act on it.

You say your partner won't give you a joint account if you ask for it - then you can't blackmail him (wtf?) and if you threaten to leave, he'll say 'go on, then.' NOTHING about that is healthy. Nothing.

You do need professional help. Get it for the sake of your children if nothing else. Your 'intellect' will count for nothing if you are desperately unhappy and resent them.

It is so distressing hearing you say over and over again how your baby just 'winges'. There is no affection there, just resentment and anger.

Don't waste any more time asking for advice here. You will just get angry because no one can fix your problems. Go to your doctor and get help, burnt toast. And go now.

"Why are you so angry?"

Cause here is what is going on in this thread:

Lots of pro-childcare people (who just happened to send all their babies to childcare - go figure!) have their backs up because I don't approve of their choice, so they tell me my children are understimulated (they need nursery! you're under-stimulating your kids! they're miserable!) thus defending their own choice. Even though I have said time and time again, I DO NOT WANT TO USE CHILDCARE FFS!!!!!!!

I'm leaving this thread soon.

Thanks to everyone who has been helpful. You've given me food for thought re: finances & husbands behaviour; and also sleep times.

"What tax reasons?

Am I missing something?"

one income of £52 gets taxed more than two separate incomes of £26K

"You need to stop moaning and blaming everyone else for your problems"

Blaming everyone else?

"Op you're seriously mistaken if you think childcare workers are poorly educated or stupid."

It's from the book I quoted earlier. You probably wont believe this but I used to be a nursery nurse so I know nursery environments. I couldn't give a shit if no one believes me. I've got a BTEC then a BA Early Childhood Studies then I got a LLB (law) after finding childcare mind-numbing. I'm leaving now.

Your children need nursery because you need a break.

And they probably do too.

You have had a tonne of good advice here but choose to ignore it.

Somehow think this situation will get worse before it get better.

Would you at least talk to hv or gp?

You may be leaving. I'm not finished.
You got a BA in early childhood studies. A BA. The people who work in nurseries, pre-schools,etc will also have similar, high-level qualifications, or be studying for them.

That book you read. Was it American, by any chance? Did it tell you what to do with your kids instead of childcrae?

Do you seriously think that if the author read this thread he'd be agreeing with your choice?

You asked for help: people have tried to help you. If all you're going to do is dismiss what everyone has said, and get angry because people are trying to tell you to be kinder to yourself, then really I feel sorry for you and your children, because this will not get better whilst you continue to place unrealistic expectations on all three of you.

You have plenty of money to live on, people survive on far less.

If you don't want your children in nursery fine but ignoring them like you are is not good for their development. If you have a BTEC and BA in early childhood studies you should know this

He's probably whining the minute he gets in the door because he knows your going to put him down and leave him.

Stop being a martyr and get some help, also go to the doctors

The childcare is a pointless side issue, with such limited access to money, how could you access childcare anyway? You need to deal with your marriage. Your husband has made you think you're bad with money, but he didn't pay the mortgage. The mortgage FFS!! The one thing you have to keep paying.

Nobody is telling to use childcare to stimulate your children. They are advising it to "give yourself a break" and i've said before, that comes from me who hasn't used childcare myself. I think looking after them yourself is best IF their mothers are enjoying the experience. Posters are only saying that it is not the evil place you make it out to be.
Stick to your principles at the expense of your children.

I'm out too. You are not listening to sense. What intellect?

You find childcare mind numbing. You changed career path to get away from it.. And you're miserable as a SAHM. join the dots op.

OP- all of the staff in my DS's nursery are studying childcare.
It's offensive to say they have less intellect than you.
They know how to entertain children.

And, I'd lay off the diet coke if I were you.

You are getting some fantastic advice on this thread and you're not listening.
You are sounding more unstable
You asked for activities to do with the children, opted for the most ambitious activity, and it all went wrong.
You don't have to have a huge plan, keep it simple

You seriously need to take a deep breath

Some kids do whinge more than others, and it's really tough sometimes.

And if you didn't buy the kids new clothes for a couple of months, no-one would notice. Seriously.

Preschool children have about a 5 minute concentration span, unless you are letting them watch tv all day I struggle to understand how they should play for any length of time without adult intervention. If you are a sahm then concentrate on the children, if you are working arrange childcare to cover working hours.

OP I also have have a Ba in Childhood Studies, currently studying a post grad in Childhood Practice. I do not find childcare 'mind-numbing' (although not criticising you for doing so) I love it and find working with the 0-5 age group incredibly rewarding and stimulating. I know you are upset and feeling like people are having a go but you came on here asking for advice. You asked for reasons why your children are whinging (possibly because they listen to you whinging) and you asked for ideas to keep them occupied. You have responded by attacking people and insulting people.
I realise that you are extremely stressed and, although you may not think you are as bad as you previously were, but I think many posters on here have picked up on the fact that you appear to be suffering from PND.
You clearly have relationship issues, money worries and an unhealthy obsession with spending money to 'keep up' with other people. Maybe instead of stressing about what the HV thinks about your wet washing hanging about you should be honest about how you feel. You have mentioned several times about calling SS, no one is suggesting that but you do sound like you are on the verge of a breakdown of some sort and it doesn't sound like your husband is able to step in and take your place.
As I said in my previous post, you need to take steps to look after yourself.

Physically there 100% of the time. Emotionally absent 100% of the time.

Lucky children to have you there all the time and not be "stuck" in childcare for a few hours! Not.

I think you need to re-read Oliver James' book.

This is from an article in the guardian by him

The commonest example is to convince yourself that they need stimulation, education and friends, whereas the evidence is overwhelming that until they are three, all children need nurture rather than pedagogy, and constant supervision from a responsive adult who knows them well.

So, it is clear. The alternative to daycare is 'the constant supervision from a responsive adult' . He does not advocate the use of an MP3 and earphones to drown out the whining so you can get on with your life instead of having to listen to the kids winge.

I feel very sad for these children, to be honest.

You might not feel day care is the answer. Do you think you've got it right, then? It's the best it can be for your two little ones? You're giving them a good, strong, happy and healthy start in life?

I'm not particularly 'pro-childcare' , it makes no difference to me whether parents use nurseries or not. However it doesn't seem sensible to me for anyone to try to work and do housework and look after two small children all at the same time without help.

It doesn't sound like you particularly enjoy spending all day every day with your children, and both you and they might benefit from a change in routine and some outside help. That's all people are trying to say here really.

You sound very aggressive and unpleasant tbh.

"What tax reasons?

Am I missing something?"

one income of £52 gets taxed more than two separate incomes of £26K

But not by the amount that your husband is suggesting. the difference is £290 a month £3480 a year.

"What tax reasons?

Am I missing something?"

one income of £52k gets taxed more than two separate incomes of £26K"

YES you are missing something. 2 people earning £26k each outside of the home means that no one is looking after 2 children inside the home for FREE. How much money does your DH thinks you will really save as a household if you both earn £26k once the additional expenses of you being away from the house are covered? Anyway it's a moot point if you are dead against child care in any form apart from yourself. Your choice completely but you sound like you hate your life as it is at he moment.

"You are physically present all the time but you are emotionally detached and the children can sense that. Do what you need to, to make yourself happier and the children will automatically be happier. I think you need some space from them (childcare again - I know) then you will look forward to seeing them, instead of resenting their demands on you"

^^ Agree with this, and have been through it myself.

I did feel sorry for you but the more I post the less sympathy I have. You are being nothing short of insulting and considering you keep banging on about how highly educated you are your opinions and 'research' is exceptionally blinkered.

BurntToast - if you found childcare 'mind-numbing', why on earth did you think you were going to enjoy being at home looking after your kids?

I've read your other threads and you really do need help. I hope you come to realise that too because you're sounding increasingly desperate and the longer you leave it, the more you're harming your children :(

oh and do you know about the effects of caffeine on anxiety and depression? The two are a very very bad combination, I second laying off the diet coke, try switching to a decaff version?