The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

It just seems to me that she is cutting her nose off to spite her face. It would appear that she doesn't enjoy being at home with the kids that much. Fair enough, many people don't. I didn't especially but I was one of those poor, uneducated people (a qualified nurse) who couldn't justify the £800 childcare costs to continue working so decided instead to stay at home until the nippers were older.
It seems the OP can afford childcare but rejects the idea because of ignorant, ridiculous and offensive reasons.
I she doesn't want to consider a nursery (for the reasons given) then she should forget the working from home and throw herself into being more of an interactive mother.
Perhaps then her kids wouldn't whine so much.

I have been in a similar situation to you so here's my action plan for you based on what worked for me: (I had 3 under 3's and a very clingy/demanding baby)

Speak to the HV about how you feel. Just talking to mine made me feel better and normal. She booked an appointment with a lovely Gp who went through several things with me. I then booked a few sessions of stress relieving treatments (massage). Talking really helped even if there was no real answer to everything.

I let DH see me at rock bottom to make him realise how crap I felt. Even though he works very long hours, and works very hard, I was falling apart at home so needed more help and support from him. I was very lucky that he realised this and helped me - he does more at home when he can, he takes the dc's out on the weekend when he can to give me a break. I do as much as I can when he's at work but when he's home it's 50:50.

We go over finances once a week, we've sorted out our joint account so now everything is equal and we are both as responsible as each other for the finances. I felt crap not knowing what was going in/out of 'his' account and what I was 'allowed' to spend. That has been very empowering.

I 'encourage' the dc's to play independently as much as possible so I can potter about tidying/sorting washing while they play around me. They are also in a good routine and both/all slept at the same time after lunch - that was an absolute priority! The only thing that got me through the day was the 2hr nap/quiet time after lunch. Ds2 now watches t.v for a bit while ds3 sleeps so I can get on with jobs.

I go out as much as possible to keep ds3 busy and tired! I take them all to the park or farm or for a walk most days to keep them all busy. I don't try to do fancy 'Mary Poppins' activities for them at home, I take them out to do it where I can focus on them properly and not the mess or housework.

Flatbread

You are right that traditionally babies are not given much attention, but I suspect you'll also find that the more attention a baby receives, the better his brain develops.
Whilst traditionally mums didn't pay much attention to babies, I also suspect that older siblings and grandparents did.

Alice, when feeling desparate and probably depressed people do tend to cut their noses of to spite their faces at first, they can't see the wood for the trees so to speak. Berrating her is really not on.

Dinosaursonaspaceship I love your post!

Ok I wrote that ages ago and then went for lunch and only just posted it. I would never in a million years paint with my DS!!! That is one of the reasons he goes to a childminder 3 days a week

Seriously though getting out of the house once a day with them is brilliant going. I have had depression and I know exactly how hard that can be to achieve, so well done for that. I am also with the poster above who says they do not think that your depression is as well managed as you think it is to me. Everything about your posts scream out depression (and I have a DH with it and have bouts myself so I do know what I am looking for). I seriously think you need to speak to your GP, because until you get that sorted you won?t be able to sort anything else out.

Re looking after your children, I don?t actually give a stuff that my cm doesn?t have a masters like I do. I DO give a stuff that she adores my child, plays with him, encourages his learning, has endless patience (far far more than me) and treats him as one of the family. She is also far far far more knowledgeable about childrea / early years stuff etc because she has made a career of it (is an ex nursery nurse). So in actual fact she is extremely qualified for the job she does! I didn?t go looking for childcare armed with an IQ test.

Being offensive and snotty about nursery workers isn't on either, depressed or not. Fair enough, don't use the services of one but calling them poor and of low intelligence just makes the OP sound like a snobby (possibly despressed) arse.

Lueji, you are probably right to an extent. In this case OP has two children who can play with each other, without full-on mum participation. Why can't they just play with a cardboard box or some toy together?

Unless you are harnessing the child's natural learning ability to teach them a new language or something, what is the big deal if mum paints with the kids or the two siblings figure out how to play with each other and a box of crayons? It is hardly a high caliber activity, in any case.

I would also think that benign neglect to a reasonable extent is a good thing, as it helps the child focus on calming down and finding their own level of activity, instead of having constant stimulation and interaction.

Op. for such an intellectual - you come across as v stupid.
Why do you let your husband control all the finances and pay all the bills. You have a shared life so you need to have a shared knowledge of your finances.
Don't bother doing messy play at home. My local children's centre does a messy play morning every fri and it is free. Or send them to crèche, nursery whatever.
Stop being such a can't do person. Chose to improve your life. Chose to say I can do this, I will do this. Break into a smile and enjoy your kids. Stop being a whinger. Most families up north would love a family income of £52k. You are being an ungrateful whingeing knobber. Grow up.

And use your frickin tumble dryer. It costs about 40p per load. Just have a couple of glasses less of diet coke, or buy your children's clothes in the sale or from the supermarket. As long as they are warm and comfortable who cares what other shallow superficial mothers at play group say. You are too focused on all the wrong things....just grow up

this thread has made me feel a bit sad. i'm just imagining 2 small children craving attention and not knowing what else to do while you are zipping around cleaning, tidying and working at a computer. sorry .

Anyway, to answer the OP's original question, yes IBU to drown out the sounds of your young children wanting attention with a turned up loud iPod AIBVU to even expect to work from home with a 2 yr old and a 9 month old and no childcare.

Burnt as someone else up-thread suggested - you need to calm down a little.

You've got a shit-load on your plate (my children have the same age-gap as yours I know how hard it is).

You're getting it from all angles here & that's not helping your current frame of mind.

There's a few things going on here that need to be disentangled & looked at objectively & calmly.

Primarily & most importantly it doesn't look as though you have an equitable relationship with your husband, he is, for whatever reason, pulling the wool over your eyes regarding the financial situation, either he doesn't trust you because of the way he views your spending, he is using it as a mechanism of control or he is using the funds for other purposes. Whichever it may be (& neither you, I or anyone else here has any idea), he is not being honest with you or treating you like an adult or a partner in this relationship.

As a result of this aspects of your already stressful life are being made unnecessarily more difficult.

As has already been advised - you need to sit down with him & make him show you his bank statements at the very least, you need to know where the money is going & why. You are not a child & should not be treated like one.

This may be where your anxieties regarding childcare are coming from - you have little control over your life & so are seeking to exert it where you can.

Please reconsider the childcare option - I had a fantastic childminder (despite being a SAHM), I would send them there two mornings a week from when the youngest was about one - I very much doubt I could have sat down & discussed the intricacies of IMF policy with her but she was bloody good at potato prints, play-doh & loving & nurturing those children & I was grateful for every minute she did so.

Cut yourself some slack, NEVER attempt paining & speak to your husband.

(& maybe substitute the odd diet coke for some )

I realise it's bad form to refer to a thread but, OP, I say this out of genuine concern. You started another thread called 'whinging little shit' about your children last week and in it you said you maybe 'shouldn't be a parent' and that you come close to downing bottles of vodka. I'm sorry if it's inappropriate to bring it up here but you sound extremely depressed. You also sound totally lacking in support from your husband. And from that place, you are taking it out on your children (the way you speak of them is detached and not fond) and on peripheral people (mumsnetters and childcare workers). The scathing attitude towards nursery staff is really not ok. You sound so angry, bitter and lonely. Remember that children are really quite perceptive of parental feelings even if you don't tell them, so their 'whining' is not solely their behaviour but a reflection of how you are feeling and behaving. Similarly, your feelings and actions are not caused by your children moaning. I think you need to see the GP both to consider medication and to find some sort of support network. And definitely put them into nursery. 'Drowning out' the everyday, normal behaviours of your children isn't going to solve these issues you have but it threatens to give them a massive insecurity. Again, apologies if I shouldn't quote the other thread but it set off very loud alarm bells.

Uh, I worked in a nursery and nannied while I was doing my degree at a Russell group university and I did my A levels at the #3 school in the country. Don't make assumptions.

If the nursery has a good curriculum with plenty of learning opportunities, are loving with the kids and responsive to their needs it is a good situation, regardless of their intellect.

Besides, we are only saying a few hours a couple of times a week, not dump them at the nearest daycare for 24/7.

I'm torn between wanting to hug you and slap you right now tbh.

I'm physically disabled and have a serious mental health condition. I also won a full scholarship to one of the best schools in the world. So I'm not uneducated or stupid.

I'm also not a martyr, which is exactly what you are being right now.

And for someone who claims to be so much more intelligent than playschool workers, frankly you're being pretty dim right now.

I get what its like to feel so shit that every morning you wake up, you want to cry a little for the fact you survived the night. But asking for opinions and advice and then shouting "FUCK YOU" at everyone who is trying to help you is a) not going to fix the problems, and b) just make you feel worse.

Having just read Pavia's above post, I really think you need to get some professional help.

It doesn't make you weak, or stupid, or a failure. It makes you human, and a human who happens to be having a rough time right now. Call the health visitor back, or go and see your GP, or see a mental health nurse. But actually carrying on like this isn't fair on you or the children.

You sound stressed.

Am wondering why you haven't made the connection between your disposition and your children's?

Children pick up on moods and if yours is so negative towards them, then they're hardly going o be happy, easygoing little sweethearts are they?

You are physically present all the time but you are emotionally detached and the children can sense that. Do what you need to, to make yourself happier and the children will automatically be happier. I think you need some space from them (childcare again - I know) then you will look forward to seeing them, instead of resenting their demands on you.

To be honest, as you are a self confessed spendaholic, I can't really blame your husband from controlling your finances so tightly (although you do need to know them). Perhaps he is trying to save, to get yourselves out of your bad credit/small flat. If this is the case, he won't want you to know, as you would probably be pressurising him to spend it on unnecessary clothes/toys.

Communicate with him calmly. Both of you need to express your needs/desires (both financial and emotional) but you need to show that you are mature enough to be sensible financially and you need to make sure that he understands that you are near to the end of your tether and that he need to help you or ensure that you get the help you need from outside - be that GP, counselling, childcare or cleaner.

Nobody is attacking you OP. You asked for an outsiders view and people have been sympathetic and tried to help, giving lots of sound advice. Be open to suggestions that are different to what you believe. The old way clearly isn't working. You need to find new ways that will.

Make baby steps in trying to change things. Some will not work and some will be successful. Something needs to change though. Do it for the children.

I have a practical idea. Approach your problems in a scientific way. Subjectively rate out of 10 each area of your life.
Eg how happy your children are
How happy you are
How clean the house is
How well your business is going etc etc.
Then do a child care pilot study. Try out a few hours of child care a week, for 6 weeks (enabling the 1st 3 weeks to be settling in ones).
Then rate each area again.
Then reflect on what you have learned.
Then make an informed decision whether child care is right for you and your family rather than basing your opinions on what you read in one book once.
Also go to the can do shop and buy a can do attitude.

I've just walked through the door and baby has literally started winging. To everyone who says he winges through lack of stimulation - really?? F.U!

Have you considered your baby might be teething and in pain?

He's picking up on your emotions.

He's also only nine months old, you're expecting too much of him right now. Calm down, stick a film on, and cuddle your children.

Is the baby ok when you are out and about?

I know it's shit and grating and downright annoying but remember it's not personal, he's not doing it to annoy you or piss you off.

Have you asked the health visitor about it? Or what about giving crysis a call?

Nice
Too much caffeine will do you and BF baby no good btw.