The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

But I am not smug. I found two little children very very hard. So hard that I won't be having more. I think most posters have agreed that it is very hard.

You're not a shit parent and the Mary Poppins posters have not read the thread. I find that any 5 minutes of activity for DS involves 20 minutes of sorting out at either side.

Just calm down op and read your post back when you have. Some of the things your saying make people a bit worried about you.

No one is telling you to be Mary poppins at all, just to get some childcare so someone else can be for a bit.

Oh, Burnt. Poor you. Did you see the link I had up thread about getting children to play independently?

While your younger one might be too small for some if the activities, but a free big cardboard box might be entertaining and lead to free form play between the two?

Some most mums are not cut out for 24/7 play, nothing wrong with that. Just do what makes you happy. Stop worrying about what your friends, books and mum netters think and just do whatever keeps you sane and happy

Ps

I would not even attempt a painting session in a flat for my toddler, that's part of what I expect the nursery to do with the space and equipment. Your a braver woman than I am.

Burnt, you're taking your anger out on the wrong people.

FWIW, I have always thought that one of the best things about nursery is so I never have to do stuff like finger painting at home, because I loathe and am frankly not good at that stuff. Don't feel you have to do "Mary Poppins" stuff, just find what it is that your children enjoy doing.

My DD is 2.4 and I work from home one day a week. Initially I thought I would fine with her with me all day. I have now concluded that I need some help to get on with my work, so someone has her for a couple of hours. I then use a mix of her sitting at the table opposite me drawing and Peppa Pig on loop to get through the rest of the day. But if I ignore her, she whinges and whinges - and why not, I don't like being ignored either.

OP, you need some help and / or to scale back what you are trying to do: you can't raise two children, keep then home spotless AND start up your own business completely on your own, so what is going to give?

Ditto to tantrumsandbaloons, I'm still there right now. my sister makes me feel better by saying things get worse as they get older lol

The baby enjoyed some of the painting and some of the bath time. The toddler enjoyed some of the painting. Some crying / mess isn't the end of the world.

I think you're too harsh on yourself. You tried. Be positive.

Is the baby hungry for a snack or something? I'm just thinking that if the health visitor has been and there's been alot of stimulation the baby might just want something to munch on maybe ?

I'm not being judgemental at all. I think you are understably very depressed and need some help with everything.

FWIW I wouldn't have contemplated finger painting with a baby and a toddler because of the mess. So that was a brave thing to do.

Sorry you are finding it all so hard.

OP, no one here has called you a bitch or a shit parent or any of that stuff . People have just tried to give advice and make helpful suggestions, all of which you are free to take or leave as you choose.

Why are you so angry?

You'll have to excuse my random reply. I can't remember the different people I'm replying to, and I'm trying to deal with the kids too. Baby is doing his usual winging. Toddler is playing with duplo quite happily.

"Burnt, what do you do that's nice for you? That you enjoy and choose to do?"

I go to the gym for an hour on Mon then 45 mins on Wed.

CailinDana - do you have a good credit record? How did you afford the deposit for your home? When did you purchase it?

Also re: money. I'm crap with money (probably because I've never managed it). I spend, spend, spend given the chance. I get addicted to eBay shopping. Bidding on things I know the kids will love.

"I believe from another post you live in a tiny flat and your DP leaves really early."

Yes that's true. And he gets back at 6pm. It's a very, very long shift for me. And people expect me to be mary poppins for the entire shift - no foooking way. Not happening.

Re: renting. I really wouldn't like that. I'd prefer to buy. I don't like the idea of not having a 'home' that is my own, and the prospect of being made to leave at the landlords whim.

"if I do I give myself a nightie day and slob around the house for a bit to recover, while the kids pootle around nearby."

WOAH!! Someone call SS! You need to give your kids CONSTANT attention, not just let them pootle around. Shame on you! [sarcasm]

"our household's dual income is about the same as yours"

You'll get better tax treatment if you are both earning.

"I also read an earlier post about nursery staff, I really don't agree with that. All the staff I have come across have been perfectly able"

The staff have a much lower level of intellect and education than me. That is the book's point. Hence why childcare is only good for poor households, who tend to be uneducated.

Not sure what DHs view on childcare are. When I say I don't agree with it, he doesn't argue. He's never said anything on the topic.

Can we leave the childcare topic now guys?

Re: finances. I'll ask him what we spend on groceries, but I know it's a lot cause he moans about it. I literally live off ready meals and diet coke. Our diet coke bill is £18 per week. I'm addicted to the stuff.

"regardless of whether one person of six people are bringing it in"

it's not 'regardless' though is it? It matters whether its a single or duel income, for tax reasons. why is no one listening to me here :(

To be honest, I've always felt trapped in the dark with the finances. I've often requested a joint account, a break-down of the incomings and outgoings, but it's never happened. It never comes about. What do you think the reason for this is? Where do YOU think he's spending all this apparent surplus money? He's not an alcoholic and doesn't buy stuff for himself, wears shit clothes.

sounds stressful, I feel like running out when they are both crying like that.
But it sounds like they had a bit if a nice time. You started with the hardest activity known to mankind though, it's not indicative of how playing can be.
You do NOT need to be Mary Poppins. DS is at nursery this morning do DD and I are sitting under the table 'hiding' writing our names in the dust under it
Deep breaths Burnt you are doing fine. Glad all went ok with the HV and hope she wasn't a bitch x

Burnttoast I want to give you a hug and take you out for or

Stop being so hard on yourself, please.

I'm not sure on your point about intellect and education - they are not pre requisites to be a good parent or childcare worker that implication is pretty offensive actually.

You seem to be deliberatly ignoring the good advice you are being given and instead being quite defensive. People are trying to offer help and support but YOU need to decide what you want and what will make you and your children happy

What tax reasons?

Am I missing something?

"have a much lower level of intellect and education than me"

"I've always felt trapped in the dark with the finances"

It is too easy to OP-bash here, all I will add is that it doesn't matter what we think. Honestly. What matter is the life you are living, the one life you are given, and whether you are content in it or not.

Head Vs Brick Wall.

"OP, I am sorry to say, I would be hesitant to have you control/equally participate in spending, based on this thread. It seems you just buy things willy-nilly for the children, and spite dh grumbling about it, you have not cut back. If you don't respect his wishes on how the money is spent, why should he respect yours?"

I think that's a reasonable statement.

"No single income is going to have so much tax on it that it amounts to having over £25K take off it"

Tax man takes £20K from our £52K I believe.

"What has caused the poor credit rating? Do you have debts? Have you actually checked your credit rating with Experian, or are you just taking your husband's word for it?"

Santander said our record was not satisfactory. I was in the room. DH was made redundant last year and missed 1 mortgage repayment whilst he found a job. He may have missed one or two others due to clerical errors or some shit.

Look guys, I'm going to have to go and get ready to take these kids out on my once-per-day outing. Softplay here we come. I'll be back later.

OMG I can't believe you said that about nursery workers! They're looking after bloody babies and toddlers not teaching biochemistry? More and more you are coming across as a stuck up, whingeing, self-pitying snob.

Nursery nurses may well be of low intellectual intellect but they would entertain your kids much better than you could. Drowning out their moaning with an iPod FFS so you can get on with the housework or make some more money to blow on crap you and your family don't need?
Get a bloody cleaner, stick your kids in a decent nursery or get your head out of your arse and give your kids the attention they really need and quit whingeing.

I do understand what you're saying about the tax thing, but don't get why it matters so much. Yes you are probably a bit worse off after tax than if your DH's salary was earned jointly by the two of you...but it's not. Unless you're planning to change that, it's irrelevant, surely? And you are saving a lot in childcare by having a single earner and a parent at home rather than you both going out to work.

I have no idea if/how your DH is spending the money he earns, how on earth are we supposed to know? Only he can tell you that.

You need to stop moaning and blaming everyone else for your problems - and take control of your life and responsibility for yourself and your decisions.

Wrt to the childcare, your opinion of nursery workers is very low based on one book. My DH and I are neither poor or uneducated. Might I suggest that you do a bit more research into this subject before you dismiss everyone as poor and uneducated.

No one is ignoring you regarding the tax issue, it was posted unthread the small difference it would make if 2 people were bringing home this income.

As for where the money is going, what do you think?
Are there debts? Do you have savings?
Do you think it's to stop you overspending?
E

Op you're seriously mistaken if you think childcare workers are poorly educated or stupid. You've just made yourself look ridiculously ignorant. Lots of people completely change careers from highly academic ones to caring ones because they WANT to .... !!!

And unless I'm hugely mistaken a 9 month old and a 2 year old don't need someone with an Oxbridge degree or PhDto be happy and secure and entertained.

If your whole focus towards the world is based on education and keeping up with the Jones's then to blunt I feel sorry for your children because they are going to enter the real world with a nasty shock.

I think you need to ask your husband what he spends all thr cash on, not us. Or, rather, what he does with it seeing as it doesn't appear to get spent.

You are getting angry with the wrong people - your
Dc and us lot. We can take it, we're strangers on the internet, but it's not fair on your kids.

As for us, get a grip. Ivory sofas, indeed. Listen, I am a SAHM, my DH earns 21K a yr, I get a pittance in benefits because I am disabled, it comes to less than 25K a yr in total. We live in a tiny flat with no garden either. There is no way on earth that you are worse off than me with your DH earning that amount, especially seeing as we are a single income household too, so you've got to stop deluding yourself with this 'worse off than everyone else" bullshit your Dh has been feeding you. We only have one child, yes, but he doesn't miss out on anything and is beautifully dressed too, not that that matters.

There is so much more going on here than you dare look at, and that is why you are getting angry at the people it's easiest to get angry with. Your husband is callous, expects too much of you, doesn't respect your needs and emotions, lies to you about finances, but you overspend and are obsessed with looking good and keeping up appearances. Overspending and perfectionism are classic symptoms of feeling restricted and unhappy in relationships and also depression and you are clearly depressed from your answers. You can depressed without it being PND, don't forget.

The one thing that worries me is your kids. The way you talk about them sounds like you really dislike and resent then, yet you want to do the very best for them. But you're getting it all wrong. It doesn't matter about what they wear, what you wear, going to loads of groups, all the latest toys and gadgets, what their home is like (seeing as it's not a hovel). If you are unhappy and resentful and constantly label their behaviour negatively, view it as something they're doing to you (which is how you come across) and they pick up on you being treated disrespectfully, they will be unhappy, whiny, clingy and, ultimately, damaged. You have conflicting priorities; the surface stuff that mattered pre-children and the children. The two don't mix. You need to choose one, and you don't need me to tell you which.

Yu're not doing yourself any favours with the talk about nursery staff being so much less intelligent than you, btw. I have a PhD, so don't tell me
I don't know what I'm talking about. Your kids need affection and attention and above all, a happy atmosphere, right now, intellect doesn't come into it. Stop getting angry at easy targets and concentrate on the important stuff!

And you may have a 'higher intellect' than nursery workers , but it's not doing your children much good if you're using it ranting at strangers on the internet about how unfair everything is.

Education matters, of course. But patience, kindness, positive attitude and fun are all important too, and you seem to have those in short supply at the moment.

I doubt spending a few hours in nursery will be any worse for them than being at home with an angry, stressed mother who seems to resent spending any time with them and just wants them to stop whinging.

OP, you have had some spectacularly good advice on this thread, and most people have been very, very understanding aout why you are saying some of the things that you are.

But I think you really need to take a step back and think really seriously about how you are coming across - that is if you want to continue to engage with the people on this thread - because you are saying some thoroughly unpleasant things and are at real risk of having people shrug their shoulders and think 'oh well, bollocks to you then.'

If you genuinely can't see the real kindness and support from people on this thread, then I'm afraid that is a bit of a red flag for me, as it seems that your perception might be a bit off, which might well mean that you aren't actually coping as well, in terms of managing any PND, as you think you are.

It might be an idea to think aout talking to a professional about how overwhelmed you feel. There is very little that MN can do for you if you are adamant that none of the suggestions are going to work for you.

I'm a bit rubbish at doing the constant attention thing - but I use childcare and work part time and feel that is the best balance for the DCs and for me. I am a better parent for not having to be a full-time one.

please stop reading oliver james

"The staff have a much lower level of intellect and education than me. That is the book's point. Hence why childcare is only good for poor households, who tend to be uneducated" that is completely nuts by the way. ability to play with children and look after them well is not based on intellect other than simple and basic common sense.....a friendly nurery worker with Iq of average ability who is happy to sit and entertain your child for hours on end and enjoy messy play is very valuable resource. you should not reject it on basis of intellectual reading of oliver james... .

will you be sending your children to school by the way?

ask gp to refer you for some counselling/help with your diet coke addiction - too much aspartame is not good for you (there are some books on that...)