The kids winge and cry

[BurntToastSmell]

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

You do seem overly concerned about what other people think. You don't need to dress your children up in expensive clothes to impress other mums - as long as they're clean and comfortable and appropriately dressed, they'll be fine.

Your health visitor will surely not care whether you dry clothes on an airer or in the tumble dryer. You have no obligation to let a health visitor into your home anyway.

As for being embarrassed about your flat - for me, my home is my home, it was chosen and is cleaned/tidied/decorated etc according to what suits me and my family. If anyone doesn't like it, they don't have to come in.

I know it's so difficult to do when you're tired and depressed, but you really need to start taking some responsibility and action to improve your life, no one is going to do it for you.

I wonder if everyone is judging you as much as you think or whether perhaps some of your depression could be causing paranoia? Just a thought.

Unless your friends are horrible people I can't see anyone judging you for living in a flat and what your children wear... it really is a non issue for most people.

I was going to suggest you post in the 'Relationships' section but, for AIBU you are getting rather bloody good advice. Whether you choose to listen or not is another matter. You are with someone who would say "fine" if you left. :( You are worth more than that, and I think you know it. Your children want happy parents, they don't have to be together. That is possibly another facade you think you have to maintain, though.

Well I don't have statistics but I know that 5 years ago me and DH combined were earning 40k We were living in rented accommodation with 3 DCs. And a lot of my friends are earning the same or less.

I can also say that I wouldn't have taken a toddler and a baby to work with me as I wouldn't have been able to do my job and IMO the same applies to working at home.

Poor you, it sounds like you are completely overwhelmed. I don't really have much to add but just a couple of things spring to mind.

You need an earlier bedtime for the children, perhaps even more of a structure to your day, a consistency so that the kids know what is coming next?

Finances. Depending on any other deductions 52k is about 3k take home. I think you need to find out where your household income is going.

Tumble dryer. Yes they use lots of electricity but it depends how you use them. Hang up a load of washing on the clothes horse in the evening and then put it in the dryer in the morning for 20 to 30 minutes to finish them and then fold and put away. Repeat. You don't need your H's permission to do this.

Is the baby eating solids? Could he be hungry do you think?

Do you have a car? If you do, could you give them lunch then go out for a drive and they sleep in the car? Just until you get an earlier bedtime sorted? My DD was terrible at having naps at home. I used to put her in the car then drive to a park, park in the car park and remain in the car read a book when she was napping. Not ideal for the longer term.

OP, does your husband disagree with using formal childcare?

Isn't the national average (taking into account serious high earners, the south east etc) about £24k?

Oh, and don't give up on your business.

If your DH wants to spend time with the DCs when he comes home from work, the he can do bath, stories and bed by 7pm, no? Then you can have a bit of time in the evening to work on your business.

Remind him that you are supposed to be partners, not master and servant.

And FWIW dh and I don't earn that between us now.

A few years ago dh was bringing that in on his own and I about 8k working part time.

I don't think there are that many couples both pulling in an above average wage. I don't think your dh's assumptions are right.

But Burnt, you're not in a 2 income family so the comparison with 2 income families for tax purposes strikes me as pointless. I don't want to add fuel to the fires of your domestic arguments - and it seems to me from your requests for detail about what others' OHs do/don't do that this is in fact part of what you might be looking for from this thread - but the fact that you are a SAHM means you don't have childcare costs and that is a net return to the household.

You seem to look for a lot of validation from others - comparisons of kids' clothes, being ashamed to have friends round because your flat is too small. If people make you care about this stuff they are not friends. I can understand your desire to move from a small flat to a house, but surely not just because other people think you should have a house?

The best advice I've ever seen on here, the bit that beats every book to death and stamps on their heads, is happy mummy (parents) means happy children. If what is going on is making you unhappy - trying to run a business, keep the perfect house, be the textbook perfect mum, be a team with your DH, constant keeping up with the Jones' - then something has to give. At the moment it sounds like it is getting dangerously close to being you that gives. The meds will help, but can't make it better all on its own. Work out, with your DH, as calmly as you can, what your priorities are as a family and how you both get some time off as well as offer support for each other. Work out, with your DH, how you will get there financially if that's what's needed. Use the opportunity to understand the family financials and stay away from plunging into incendiary specifics if you can. I know it is difficult to be calm especially when you're tired, depressed and feeling like you're not getting support. Work out what really is important to you and what isn't and be prepared to give a bit - tis good adult compromise when it comes from both sides.

Small children are hard work. It gets easier in terms of grind as they get older but harder mentally (my challenge is a 5 year old and a 2.5 year old who can both express themselves rather too well when they're in whine mode and I can't out argue either of them ).

Good luck, Burnt

Yes if you were a two-income family both working full-time, you'd likely be paying a lot more in childcare for two children than you'd be saving in tax.

There's never much point comparing yourself to other people anyway, it's more productive to focus on what can be done to improve your situation.

You really need to get under the bonnet of the finances. You should know everything, mortgage, bills, what's in savings etc.

No one should ever leave it fully to their husbands, however lovely or not they may be.

OP I read the same Oliver James book you referred to early in this thread and came to a lot of the same conclusions. I work from home and have been looking after my DS in the daytime and fitting work in at night and sometimes in naptimes. I only had one and it was impossible to work. I'm now nearly due with DC2 and have finally put my 2 year old in nursery 3 mornings a week from 8-12, something I agreed to TRY on the understanding that if I saw him becoming anxious or otherwise affected I'd take him out again. It's changed my life! He loves it, he's interested and engaged with other kids, he comes home worn out and happy and having been fed already, I can then put him down to nap and feel guilt free if i don't take him out. I get about 5 times more work done because I have space and peace and am not shattered so work faster. I really think its worth trying for your 2 year old.

so you hav a tumble drier?
but wont put it on even when h not here for fear of what he might say?

that my dear is nuts

Is there no way you can at least try a few mornings at nursery for the DCs, or even just the older one?
There are many many happy DCs who have not suffered from being in childcare. I know you have your reasons for not wanting to do so and I'm not trying to invalidate those at all. But sometimes the reality of something is completley different to the theory IYSWIM

Not all children suffer from being in good childcare, and I say that as a mother of 3 who all went to nursery at under a year.
2 are now at selective schools, 2 happy, well adjusted, confident teenagers.
It's not really fair to dismiss childcare on the basis of one book when there are also benefits.

I also think your DH needs to do more around the house but that is something only you can deal with, in terms of explaining he either helps or the washing up etc doesn't get done.

I would also be much more involved in the family finances and wrt to the tumble drier, ask him how he would like you to get stuff dried in winter?
Is he prepared to wear the same clothes 3 days in a row?

I think you need to thrash this out once and for all with him.

What would he prefer - a couple of days paid childcare per week or a depressed, miserable stressed wife who is unhappy?
Plenty of people earn far less than your dh and may have bad credit too - it is not insurmountable.
He needs to listen to you.

I've got 4 kids at one point three were at home together, now I've got a 5 month old and 2 yr old.

I know u may not want to hear this but If you want your sanity and happy content kids then you will have to ditch your online work until the kids are settled. do you have nap times for the kids. With the 9 month there will be more naps I'm assuming, maybe get some house chores done then. do your online work in the evening?

If the online work is a must for your income then I guess you will have to get some in house help, friends? Family? Nanny?

I've never had any help I can't afford to pay nannies and I do t want to put my kids in the crèche. I don't have a business, but getting house chores done can be hard with kids, I take the kids along with me, the 2 yr old helps me well she thinks she is but I'm keeping her occupied . Some days I leave it and do it quickly as soon as the kids are in bed, its the only way. The kids are moaning because they need you.

Look, screw you guys and your activities. I feel even more depressed than I did before, now that I know I'm expected to be an all-singing, all-dancing Mary Poppins children's entertainer 24/7. Furthermore, if I don't act as a mary poppins, then I am a neglectful, incompetent parent - screw you. Here's what just happened.

After the health visitor left (no problems with baby's 9 month check; hitting all milestones; weight gain spot on) I cut a bin bag in half and layed it on the floor to use as a splash mat. Then I got out the finger paints and stripped both babies down to their nappies. So far so good. I take the tops off the paint and start naming the colours, cooing enthusiastically. At this point, baby begins his usual grating winging. Toddler is enjoying herself. Baby is interacting with the paint but the winging turns to full-on crying within minutes. I try to distract him. Toddler still enjoying herself. Very soon, the crying turns to full on screaming. Baby's face is bright red. At this point, I'm cursing you guys. Thinking of you sitting there smugly behind your laptops on your ivory sofas.

Toddler now getting irritated by baby and starting to whine. Paint getting tipped onto the carpet. My blood pressure rising. Tears welling up in my eyes. I decide it's time to end this stupid fucking exercise. I calmly put the tops back on the paints and explain that we're tidying up now. I go and run the bath. Baby screaming more and more now. Toddler starts crying. Bath is taking so long to run.

I take off babys nappy and put him in the bath. He seems to calm down a little. He sits in the bath just doing his usual grating winging and looking at the rubber ducky. Toddler follows us into the bathroom. I remove her nappy and put her in. She starts screaming and trying to climb out (normally her dad would be getting in with her). So I quickly wash her as she screams and fights me, then get her out and put her dressing gown on. After all this drama, baby is now screaming. His face is bright red. I quickly wash him and get him out.

Now I'm sitting here, drying baby and thinking FUCK YOU GUYS.

If not being mary poppins makes me a fucking abusive parent, then you better call the SS! My kids were even more miserable after following your advice than they were before. Baby winges whatever I do. So whoever said that he was winging because I'm a neglectful bitch - fuck you. He winges even when activities and stimulation are present.

I will stick with talking to my children about what they're doing, and taking them out once a day. If that makes me a shit parent, so be it.

Op, I was like you and didn't want to use childcare when my dcs were small. But it was clear after dc2 was born that I couldn't get anything done. I took two years leave from my phd and for the first year at home with two dcs the house was a tip. It got better after ds went off to preschool. But being home with a baby and a toddler is incredibly hard.

One game that they both liked at this age was 'stormy sea'. I would pull the duvet up around them and they were on a boat on the sea. Then a storm would come and I would rock them and bounce them. That would keep them happy for a bit.

(I am so happy that stage of my life is over).

Sorry, x-post.

I let my children paint about once a year, then remember how hellish it is. It takes me about a year to forget, whereupon I pull out the paints again only to realise why I had hidden them...

:Tryingtoleave
I think she's very upset right now and doesn't want any advice

Burnttoast - you are being to hard on yourself. Taking out dc once/day is brilliant and more than I managed with mine most of the time.
I'm worried though that your depression is not as well managed as you think it is. All you seem to see in peoples posts are negatives about yourself. Most posters know how tough things can be with two los and that's without wfh.

So OP don't do the activities suggested. Do what you want to do. But you asked for advice.
No one called you abusive or a bad mother.

But it sounds like you are struggling on a lot of us have been there so are trying to help.

I posted before I read. I'm sorry, the timing was bad.