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The kids winge and cry

680 replies

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 16:01

I have two very demanding young children. A toddler (2 years) and a baby (9 months). They winge all day long (I really mean: all. day. long). Aside from look after the kids on my own all day (7am till 6pm) I have to keep the house clean, make their food, make sure all the dishes are washed, make sure all the clothes are clean, take them to baby & toddler groups, AND run an online business. I'm at the end of my tether because of the constant winging all day long. My friend has suggested using an ipod and turning the volume up full so I can't hear their winging. Is this reasonable? I don't know how I would get all my chores done otherwise, but I feel terrible. I read that if you leave young children to winge/cry, you can lower their self esteem and make them more anxious (due to elevated levels of cortisol). I really hate leaving them to cry but I don't know what else I can do? I don't want to put them into daycare/nursery until they are 3.

OP posts:
Name7 · 11/10/2012 23:31

You're exhausted, so every chore seems insurmountable. You are also allowing your H to make you an unequal partner. I am a SAHM. I have a cleaner and once a month when things get too much she will iron for me in top of her normal 3 hours per week. I budget for her but I am also in control of all our finances. We don't have allowances just the joint account.
You must must must do the early nights first though. Do pick up put down, do sitting in the room, whatever works for you. Change the habits, at this age with both your children, the better the sleep or naps they have in the day, the better they sleep at night. I have never been one to do cry it out and my 2 aren't perfect but 7 pm is bed time, no arguments. You then get some time to yourself and chores can be done by you both in a fraction of the time. I'll iron for 20 mins whilst DH clears the kitchen after dinner. Get him away from the computer or tv until its done.
You are not housekeeper and nanny, you are his wife and mother to his children and deserve to be treated with respect.
But get sleep sorted first. Pm me if you want more tips. My dd(2) was and still can be a horrific sleeper, but I have many and varied methods that work at various times! Good luck.

DowagersHump · 11/10/2012 23:31

Well, I can tell you he's talking bollocks. The average family in the UK survives on about £25k.

The more you post about him, the more he sounds like an abuser. I'm sorry, that's a horrible thing to say but you're utterly miserable, he's withholding money from you, he's critical and he doesn't have any respect for how hard it is to do what you're doing. You sound so horribly anxious :(

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:33

"Do you have no other access to money - apart from the 50 quid/week?
I see your (d)h gets the shopping done and pays the bills - is he controlling all the money then?"

  • yes he controls the dosh. No joint account (even though I've asked for one many times). sigh what can I do?

amverytired- what chores does your DH do?

ilovesooty - he's talking bollocks about what?

OP posts:
BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:34

"The average family in the UK survives on about £25k."

Isn't the £25K the average income of one person?

OP posts:
Name7 · 11/10/2012 23:35

And also find better playgroups! Not all are like you describe, you don't need to be talking to mothers like the one you described. Most of us are normal!

shewhowines · 11/10/2012 23:35

£200 is a lovely amount to spend on yourself and Dc just as you wish. You don't need more.

The secret to happiness is being content with what you have. if you always aspire to more then you will never be happy. Stuff what other people think. That is their problem.

£52k is a lot of money, but depending on your outgoings, your DH may not be being mean. You should really be party to your finances though. MY DH deals with our finances but I am definitely in the picture.

wheresmespecs · 11/10/2012 23:36

There is a lot of good advice here, OP. And if you google activities for toddlers and babies you will find a wealth of good ideas out there too. Everyone has the 'what do I do with them all day when it's raining' days, and there are lots of cheap and inventive activities.

But what I most want to ask is -

What would you most like people responding to this to say to you? You sound, forgive me OP, as if you want someone to give you permission for something. What might that be?

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:38

shewhowines - we spend a lot on groceries for sure. I'm addicted to ready-meals and diet coke. It's basically my only pleasure.

OP posts:
DowagersHump · 11/10/2012 23:39

I just checked it out - 62% of families in the UK have a lower income than you do.

(ps sorry my earlier figures were incorrect, was working on gross, not net. Your DH's take home is just over £3k/month)

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:40

"What would you most like people responding to this to say to you? You sound, forgive me OP, as if you want someone to give you permission for something. What might that be?"

I need ideas on how to cope, and I've received some great ones. Also 'permission' to suggest a cleaner, and to suggest DH helps out more. It's hard for me to know whether IABU or not. Hence why I chose this forum.

OP posts:
shewhowines · 11/10/2012 23:41

What do you think to the kids watching TV? Am I right? Is it not part of your perfect parenting regime that you are judging yourself by?

DowagersHump · 11/10/2012 23:41

But another thing, assuming you're in London (because of your tiny flat), childcare for my DS was around £1k/month so that I could work. So you are saving an awful lot of money by caring for them yourself. So don't ever, ever think of yourself as a drain on finances - you're a net contributor to your family income :)

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:45

Dowagers - thanks for that link! wow! But it doesn't appear to take into account that the £52 (before tax) is a single income. This is important, as the tax is not split between DH and me, like a duel-income household would be. So we pay much more in tax.

OP posts:
BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:46

shewhowines - I have to admit, my kids watch mickey mouse. Their friends all have the TV on when we visit so it feels unfair to prevent my kids from watching it when they see all their friends doing it.

OP posts:
BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:47

Dowagers - we're in the north east (South Tyneside).

OP posts:
wheresmespecs · 11/10/2012 23:47

Do you want to leave your husband, OP?

BurntToastSmell · 11/10/2012 23:51

wheresmespecs - no I love him, and it would breaks the kids hearts.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 11/10/2012 23:54

In the North East and he earns that amount of money, and you seriously think the rest goes on mortgage and groceries?

And you ask for a joint account, and ask for other things? And he tells you that the tumble drier costs too much to use and you never see any bills?

I'm not one to do "leave the bastard" and I even felt a bit sorry for him when I read your thread yesterday, but seriously, you are allowing him to disempower you completely.

DowagersHump · 11/10/2012 23:54

You are utterly fixated on the fact that he's the only one earning. That's a fuckload of money for Tyneside - he must be in the top 20% of earners where you live.

He really has done a number on you hasn't he? :(

shewhowines · 11/10/2012 23:59

Do the kids whinge so much when DH looks after them? Do they whinge when you are at the play groups?

If it is only when they are with you then it is your state of mind affecting them or they are bored. If you stop working and/or use childcare this should change.

If they whinge in the other situations too then maybe it's just habit/a stage they are going through and you'll just have to grit your teeth and get through it. Try distracting them. Talk in "oh look at that lovely flower" or "what shall we have for tea later" or what's happening now on teletubbies or whatever.

flow4 · 11/10/2012 23:59

OK Burnt, it sounds like you are very sure about what you want to do. So below are some ideas for things you can do with your baby and toddler...

Bear in mind that they do need almost constant attention at that age. The whingeing occurs because that is the most exciting thing happening for them at that moment. :( If you turn your attention to them fully, they won't whinge.

You can expect maybe 5-10 mins uninterrupted, a few times a day if you're lucky. Plus one longer period if you work hard to synchronise their naps and you are very, very lucky.

It is difficult and tiring to do this all day long. It feels hard because it is hard. It is harder if you are depressed (as you already know). It is easier if you get a break from them and can come back 'fresh' (because your partner or another relative has them for a bit, or they are at a childminder's). It is, funnily enough, less hard the more you throw yourself into it. If you can really have fun and play, it will be easier :)

Also remember that mostly all the baby wants at that age is you. S/he will be happy doing more or less anything you do with your 2 year old, if s/he is in a sling or on your lap.

Everyday chores: give the baby a clean duster to suck play with Grin, or stick him/her in a sling. The 2yo can sweep with a dustpan and brush; help with the hoover; wipe surfaces; clean the bath by climbing in it; pick up; hanging up clothes; wash pots and plastic things, etc. The trick is to turn it all into a game. Put on some bouncy music while you do it. We often used to listen to while we did jobs.

Cooking together: the baby can prob just bang pots and smear Grin. The 2 year old can 'help' with quite a bit: mixing; rolling pastry and bashing dough; putting toppings on a pizza or pastry slice; cutting cheese and mushrooms and other soft stuff with a butter knife, etc...

Playdough: play with it: chop it, roll it, make models, use the machines that extrude it in sausages... If you make your own using a recipe like this one you can be confident that when the baby puts it in his/her mouth, it won't poison him/her :)

Finger paints: spread the kitchen floor with a plastic sheet or loads of newspaper. Get paints, brushes and paper. Prepare for mess!

Singing songs with hand actions: Wheels on the Bus, Incy Wincy Spider, Wind the Bobbin Up, etc. There used to be collections like The Singing Kettle when mine were young, so if you feel daft singing by yourself or you don't know songs, you can sing along to a video. But you must sing!

Dance: the more wildly the better! Grin

Make music: good instruments for littlies are recorders, whistles, harmonica, drums, some xylophones... Basically, anything you bash or blow! You can make your own.

Megablocks/Duplo: build things!

Dens: take the sofa apart and make a den with its cushions, and with blankets/throws/sheets/towels/the clothes rack, etc. Hide in it together.

Watch toddler TV together. It's not a cop-out, if you do it together. Talk about it all as you watch, eg: "Oh what IS she doing now?! Look, she's riding a bike!" Anything you say - literally anything - is OK! And it is also not a sin to use the TV for a short break (like your very own in-house childminder!) if you need a breather - which you will!

Cutting and sticking: with child-proof scissors and a stick glue like pritt-stik. Different coloured sheets of paper are best. ELC sells craft packs. Not all are suitable for younger children, but some are.

Drawing - crayons and chunky pens.

Puppets: buy them or make them (from cardboard, paper plates, socks,etc.) and put on a show.

Water play: have a bath together or fill the kitchen sink (clear the draining board); use sponges, plastic cups to pour, empty bottles to squirt, etc.

Mud play: put on wellies and go out and jump in puddles! Grin

Bubbles: you can blow them anywhere. I recommend the small tubs with the wands that are easier for little fingers to hold, and that contain less liquid when it spills.

Dressing up: you don't need special outfits. Your 2yo will love trying on your clothes, and dad's! You can make crowns and other accessories from cardboard. etc.

Explore: make every trip out into an expedition - even just to the local shops. Look for leaves and mini-beasts and conkers and snails and anything.

Have adventures: If you're comfortable with make-believe, have expeditions to the arctic or the jungle or other imaginary places: eg. the buses are elephants and the dogs are tigers! (MY friend and I once had a fantastic hour in the park with our kids on a dragon hunt! We found dragon poo and everything!)

Right... That should keep you occupied tomorrow! Grin

(If you do a google search for 'toddler play', you'll find more ideas).

(I could say a lot about what I think of your DH, but I'll restrain myself. I would like to tell you, though, that I have raised 2 kids all by myself for years on £16-24K. We do fine. :) )

HanSolo · 12/10/2012 00:06

£52k p.a. in the NE? Shock

You need to find out where all your money is going, and then you need to sort out what will be cut so you can get a cleaner.

wheresmespecs · 12/10/2012 00:09

Then i think you need to become totally clear about what you need to make the relationship and your situation work.

You can't go on as you are, that is clear. It's not just about 'can I leave them to cry' or 'what do I do with them' - I think you need to be totally honest about what your priorities are, for the next year at least, and then be as clear as day with you husband about how it has to work.

You could stop working if it brings in so little - but you need to know and tell your DP how much in childcare you will save by you being a SAHM for the time being. And make him understand he will need to hand over more for the care of his children and the running of his household.

Or you could keep working but work out what help you need and what it costs, and make him understand that he needs to pay his share.

It seems odd that on what is a pretty good wage, even for one earner, you live in a tiny flat in what is a relatively cheap area of the country. If moving is important to you, you need to bring this up and decide if it is a deal breaker for you or not.

Re: domestic tasks and DP doing more - again, sort your own agenda out, feel confident what you are asking him to do is reasonable - and then be very calm and firm when you talk to him.

it will not be easy. For whatever reason, you are in a relationship where your husband forbids you to use a tumble drier and you are accepting this (why not ebay it if you are not going to use it, btw?). A tumble drier you can't use in a tiny flat is madness.. That said, you have managed to get him to climb out of a window in the morning and ask him not to take a piss first thing as it wakes your babies up - so you obvs can ask him
to adjust his behaviour in some ways.

Out of interest - what is it that you love about him?

Hopandaskip · 12/10/2012 00:20

wow...

ok you need to know where the money is going and have full access. It is not a partnership if only one person is in agreement. My DH pays the bills and manages the budget but I also have full access to everything if I want it.

I'm not one to do "leave the bastard" and I even felt a bit sorry for him when I read your thread yesterday, but seriously, you are allowing him to disempower you completely.

I totally agree! Why are you letting him do this? You have the right and responsibility (to you and your kids) to know what your family income is and have a say in how it is spent.

As for single vs dual income, I found this...

"Overall, the UK's mean annual salary of £35,212 a year was close to the average of the other countries" (telegraph)

and you live in a less expensive area of the country.

Sorry love, he is really pulling a fast one on you here.

100mph · 12/10/2012 01:50

OP, Lots of interesting ideas and advice here - especially on activities with kids so I'll aim not to repeat. For me a few things stand out:

  1. re. whinging - it would be good to really rule out the basics and ensure they're eating, sleeping and stimulated enough. From what you say, sleep sounds like the best one to focus on first as you've indicated their evening sleep time is partially influenced by your OH's preferences and nap times are affected by your little one's resistance/ tears. I would second those that say the whole sleep routine has to be based on their needs even if it's hard / parents miss out. I found 'The Sleepeasy Solution' book saved my sanity - it's a really easy read, very parent friendly approach that takes you though step by step and gives you the background. It will answer all your questions about what to do when they start crying. It also gives a bit of broader background about child development which I found really helpful. My DS was waking up around 8 times a night and both DS's would take an hour or more to fall asleep with rocking etc.. and could miss naps for crying until we tried this approach - first one took about 3 days to sort out night sleeps and a week more to get him to nap 3 times a day (at 5 months) - second one took a bit longer but it's made a huge difference - for our stress levels - but most importantly for the children. As soon as they began sleeping better they were more settled / started reaching development goals more quickly. (I don't know if all this not being allowed to wee at night is to do with not waking them up - but if so - the sleep training we did allowed us to walk normally around the house at night without having to worry.)

On some of the things your OH has said - My DH and I have both been stay at home parents for part of the last few years - and both worked. I've noticed it's incredibly easy to make assumptions about how easy the other person has it - what they might achieve. It's natural to see it from your own perspective. I think it helps to be as factual/ matter of fact as possible. Get a notebook and pen for a couple of days, write everything down that you do, include soothing children etc.. Be clear about some of the conclusions - pressure building up, not being able to focus on x, y, z.. and be clear about potential solutions and the pros/ cons of them - Give a number of them. Use it to start a meaningful conversation about practical steps you will decide as a family to make your collective life better - not something you want from him. He needs to know what you won't be able to do (that he likes) if you begin to prioritise without his rational input.

I would also say to him that everyone else looks like they're coping well etc.. but every situation is different. Pick a handful of couples you know and find out - they will all have taken different options - grandparents help/ nursery/ less clean homes/ use of tumble drier/ have older children helping etc.. The more you really talk to other people the more you find out that everyone is not doing better than you - they just do it differently with more / less success. Learn from them if if helps but find the facts - men are bad at this I think as they don't really talk detail.

Having two under 3 yrs is V.V hard to begin with - I have a 2 year age gap and had a very sticky quarter weaning and potty training at the same time. I think 9 months - 12 months is a watershed time. For me it became easier after about 11 months. I also had a mental lock against the idea of nursery before 3 - although I definitely had moments when I wondered if they were getting any value out of a frazzled, tired and sometimes uninspired mother - esp when I had too much housework to do and a DH with unrealistic expectations. Now they've both started at nursery - one I felt comfortable with and only 3 mornings a week - I wonder if my 3 year old wouldn't have benefitted just as much if he had started 6 months earlier. Don't be in this position. Have a good hard think with a dose of humility - would it be worth someone coming in for a couple of hours 3 times a week to see to the kids under your supervision if you can't abide the thought of anything else?

It will get easier over time - but you want it to be a bit more manageable now for both you and the kids - that's a great goal. Just take things one step at a time and have the hard conversations you need to.

good luck,

100