Support for those in Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 12

[foolonthehill]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans ? He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out ? You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change?please don?t give him the link?print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Hi guys,

Thinking of you magpie and trying.
Things still very strained btwn me and dh. He is very pass remarkable. Little things but aimed at wearing me down no doubt..tells me off for having wasted some food, playing some music he doesn't like etc.
I have tried to be affectionate bu he is not responding even though he was the one who was pa the other night.
We went out with other families today, he can't be nice enough in public, helpful and considerate but is short with me.
It's the coldness and distance that creeps me out.
That and I can't mention my family as he has bad opinion of all of them.
Tried talking to his mum but she was on his side, says I've been pa in the past so whats the difference! Difference is he's that much stronger than me.
I use counting to get ds1 to do things and he just grabs him and forces him which makes him cry every time. His temper is so short.
The house is in both our names even though I paid the deposit. I have no passport.
I keep waiting each day for him to be different. I don't want to be the one who breaks up our little family but I am so unhappy. If he was only kind and nice all would be well.

Are you ok Shriek?

Regards the link in the Guardian, I took it to mean that there had been a link to Mumsnet, and he'd come on and found us that way, not that there was a direct link to this thread, so please don't worry. I'm sure if there was a direct link we'd have heard by now (from MNHQ or from lots and lots of freaks coming on and haranguing us - which hasn't happened).

Hope everyone's ok this evening, safe and getting by.

I have a small and strange dilemma. Saw NSDH today, to drop DS2 off. Had another big conversation about where we are, he recognised that I'm at rock bottom in terms of us, just about to let go but only just holding on. Which seemed positive insight. (But the girls also told me he was just awful to them again on Friday night, drunk and just shouting abuse at them. ) He asked me if I was ok for money, did I need any. I told him no.

Anyway, he walked DS2 down to my flat at bedtime. Brought me homemade scones. (both and ) When he got home, he texted me to say he'd thought a lot about it and had transferred some money to me, he doesn't really have any to spare but I need it more than him to support the boys.

I checked my bank account. It's £1,000!!!!

Now. There are several issues at play with me right now. Firstly, I feel bad because I really don't think he can afford it. But then I think, he could have sent over a few hundred, £1,000's a lot, so he must be able to afford it (or he's drunk). But I feel bad about accepting it. But then he hasn't given me any money for DS2 since I left. Couple of hundred a month, it's been five months, that's about right. But I still feel bad. Then I remember all the money I spent helping him sell his house (I paid about £700 for his estate agent etc), and they money I spent on our wedding (I paid all the fees). And more than there's room to go into here.

So why do I still feel bad for taking his money???? Should I protest and give him some back? Aaaaaargh! It throws me when he's nice (even though it may be for his own agenda).

Hi everyone, thanks so much for kind words and support. This thread means the world to me.

Shriek I agree with Pony, that's how I took it. I did a quick search of Guardian just in case and there were some general historical articles about MN, which he may have found via the JLC case. His comments were kind and he's probably just moved on. I think MNHQ would be looking out for us if there was a link and also there has been no barrage of weirdos! Thank God.

Pony your support is very much apppreciated and spot on as always. Ditto to Silver and everyone else. Re the money, Pony, I think he's definitely trying to showcase himself as Mr Marvellous to suck you back in - given his terrible behaviour to those poor DSDs, he seems to be keeping a nice act for you for his purposes but remaining a full on fw when you're not looking and towards his own kids - poor young girls!

I would keep the money as it adds up to what you should have been given by him for DC support and also the other factors you mention. Don't feel guilty and please don't feel pulled back in by it - if there's a risk of that, maybe put it in a sep bank account for DCs and tell him you've done that? As for the scones - compared to his drunken shouting at his children, well, I'm speechless! Does his ex know about drunken rantings - could she keep the poor girls away from him? You're doing so brilliantly and I aspire to be in your position - please be careful not to let him wriggle his way back in with these tactics. Sorry, you prob already know that! You're such a great, strong person, you definitely deserve a man who can appreciate you and treat you right.

Hey Ginga, you sound really down. The thing about him grabbing your DS while you're counting - that's awful. Completely undermining you, and all about forcing DS to do his will, regardless of how it makes DS feel.

It's horrible, I know. You just wish that everything could be fine, nice, lovely. But it isn't. You're miserable. He's physically abusive and EA too, at the very least. But really, it's not going to get better. It might get a tiny bit better for a little while, but it will always slip back. You're just starting out on this process, so don't rush yourself if you're not ready, but just know that you have the power to leave. The power to make your DS's life better. The power to make your life better. But after such a long time of being ground down by him it will take time to get to the point where you can do anything about it. That's fine. Every day is a step forward.

Sorry, am rambling on now! But keep posting. It'll help. Sometimes it's the only thing that does.

FW has studiously ignored me since incident earlier - knowing him as I do, I think he's ashamed and therefore in his twisted way blames me for making him look bad But all's quiet, though I am on edge and have both my phones with me, plus have essentials packed. I've told DM in code I have a problem (over phone, could be heard) and dsis is aware so I have in effect put myself on the road. I am glad it hasn't kicked off badly tonight (fingers crossed, so far anyway), as it gives me time to sort myself. My new job isn't secure yet as I'm in the probationary period, so no leeway or asking for understanding there. So I'm going to local estate agents tomorrow to ask for viewing of this cheap local flat and will take it if it's available. God knows what my credit rating's like (prob crap) but I can ask family to guarantee me.

FW has just come up (I am hiding in my room!) - 10 mins s before my weekly time I have booked on telly for Downton - reading his warped message, it means he is freeing up downstairs for me to watch so no kicking off tonight. Wow, aren't I lucky, isn't he great

Thanks trying - I don't feel strong, believe me, I feel like I'm just clinging on sometimes! But then sometimes I get moments of clarity - these couple of weeks me and DS1 have had a great time together, laughing and mucking about (and having a couple of early morning pre-getting-up cuddles). All stuff that's been missing from the last couple of years. Thinking about that keeps me going - I even told NSDH about all that today. His response? That's great that you've finally been able to do that, although it's what I do naturally anyway, but then I've always done that and you haven't. (I'm paraphrasing, obviously...)

It's hard with DSDs - I don't want to dwell on it too much, or make them feel that I'm pumping them for info. But I did say a few times 'you must tell your mum about it'. I talked a bit about maybe they could see him less often - but really, none of that's up to me, it's between their mum and NSDH. But they're going to come to mine for a sleepover next Friday (DS1 will still be away at his dad's so it'll be a nice girly night), so that'll be one less evening with their dad, that's got to be good.

NSDH has now emailed me as well. Am going to spend some time processing it. It's quite sentimental, but I think he might have had a few drinks. But why do I just want him here to hug right now? Am effed up.

Hi Ginga, I so know where you're coming from re the counting tactics (or whichever) that you are attempting being over-ruled by loud shouting or shoving or grabbing - which is violence at the end of the day. It takes a lot to face it and then to distance, I am still in there too - but this thread helps validate us.

Pony the power to leave, I love that phrase

Pony love, you're not effed up, he is and you've been put through the mill, so of course emotions run high. It's really hard to resist when they're being nice (otherwise we wouldn't stay I guess!) and I got sucked back in when I reunited several years ago - I really know what you mean about needing the hug etc. I pray we'll all find that hug with someone decent eventually

I think its guilt money, nothing more, but you don't have to feel guilty taking it. You are entitled to financial help, and you might not see any more for a while! but also there may be strings attached for him, which doesn't mean there have to be for you! ;) I hope you can treat the kids to a relaxing fun time on a bit of it and all let your hair down together. You all need some fun and laughter (extremely difficult and less common in these circumstances!)

Thanks for reassurances around the random poster. I need to be careful what I say here.

thank you for concern pony am getting there, dc bring me back to having to unwire and calmness, just being around.

ginga so sad to hear of pa fo you and your family. Please try to remember its not you thats breaking up the family, he is doing that every time he hurts it, he batters the relationship and the trust and the love until there's nothing left, then you simply leave it behind by walking out.

take care girls. I have to rest now and my hopes go for peace for everyone tonight.

trying, you sound determined. You sound focused. You sound sure. You know what? You sound strong. You have the power!!!!

Enjoy your TV time, soon it'll all be your tv time... !

Morning ladies, apologies for not replying sooner. I certainly did not mean to cause you any further alarm!

The link / reference I found was for MN (which I am afraid I had never heard of !) not for this, or any other specific thread. I have looked back to try to find the reference ? I think it was below the line in the CIF section, but I am afraid I can?t now find it. This thread was on or close to the top of the ?Active list? and I clicked on it.

My original thought from the title was that this was a general discussion about abusive relationships, not the life line that it and you all are for each other.

I am not a regular poster on any internet thread ? in fact that was only the second post I have ever made. I guess I was just very moved by your stories / lives, and frustrated by my inability to help, that I wanted to offer some small attempt at solidarity and support.

I hope that you have all stayed safe over the weekend, and again apologies for any alarm or concern I may have caused.

Good morning and heartfelt hopes to all that the night was peaceful for all. Mine ended very late after dc disturbances with ex causing many tears and difficulties in getting to sleep. A rough day today, and I think many more explosions to come. That was only one battle, I think the war is not over and I am trying to dig into my bunker for the next shell that may head our way. I keep giving him the power (he knows I'm so intimidated - but I remaining steadfast evenso, and I'm beginning to know that I will take back that power and not feel intimated and stand by my dc at all times regardless of what I have to face in order to do that)

thank you heartoday for reassurances. Sadly or thankfully I really don't know which any more, there isn't an article with a link to this, but just a general MN one (I think I was thinking that any news /info around this huge problem is good and I might find out the miracle way out!!) hmm... but its definitely better there isn't.

I, for one am reassured that a paper wouldn't do anything so bonkers as to highlight this!

and... - OMGoddess, a genuine man!

Thanks HearToday, I appreciate you coming back to clarify. I hope you understand why there was a little jitter, because of our situations and our experiences. I do really appreciate your words of support, they helped me. For me, it was a nice perspective - I get so entrenched, it was really valuable to see how someone else saw the support we get on here, and saw it for how wonderful it is.

Shriek, sorry to hear about your ex causing so many problems. It must so hard when that's still happening. What's the longer term plan with him?

I think you are all right in some respects about my 'windfall' - it's partially guilt money. I'm glad he feels guilt. But I'm concerned still - he only has it to give me because he's paying for everything on 0% credit card, which will need to be paid off at some point, and if he's given me all the money then he can't! And if we do divorce, apparently any debt he's accrued while we're married is half mine. So I may have to pay for it eventually. Perhaps putting it in a separate account is a good idea.

His email last night made me howl. I think he had had a few drinks (i could smell it on him a bit when he dropped of DS2, a friend had been over to visit in the afternoon). But he said he'd had a good talk with his friend and was very angry with himself inside. He realises he's been abusive, nasty, controlling. (Just seeing those words from him on the screen made me burst into tears.) He said I was a wonderful, kind person and he wasn't, but he wanted to be. He talked about specific things he's done (pressuring me for sex) was wrong, how he took our relationship for granted and disrespected my opinions.
Some of that sounds a little like therapy-speak to me. But I've just reread his email to remind myself of what he said, and I'm crying all over again. I don't know how it makes me feel - that's what I said in reply, that I felt I couldn't respond because I didn't know how right now. On one hand I'm sad that he's feeling so down. but I'm angry and upset for everything that's happened. And I'm still so unsure if he can change... Aaaaaargh!!!! But he says he's going to seek out different therapy this week, so we'll see how that goes. Feel quite drained already today!!!! and

I feel like I am dreadfully behind on this thread and not taking in what's going off with people. I'm in a full on fog and I think I am having a breakdown of sorts. I'm panicky, I can't sleep, I feel so confused.

I have seen FW briefly but was basically invited over, dismissed within minutes, had an emotional meltdown, made things worse and now he won't speak to me. He's made it clear he only saw me because he felt sorry for me and is worried that I will do 'something silly'. FWIW, I wouldn't. I do dream of not waking up and I do feel low enough to not want to feel pain anymore...but not low enough that I'd act on it, I know there are too many people that care and I'm a chicken. Now I'm being ignored and in a mess.

I've been fed so much of what he thinks of me that I'm starting to believe it. I've lost my anger.

He says he wants space. Well I know what that is code for.

I'm really struggling with not having a mum at the moment. I was howling for her yesterday. I've walked away from that relationship for good, I don't understand why I can't do it with FW.

Oh Ana. nothing needs to be done, just keep going, very hard definitely, but you're right to do that regardless of what is happening. Like trying to walk through deep snow, still its snowing but you must keep walking (it is very hard, and exhausting but what choice do we have?).

It is so hard to let go, and it probably took you a long time to do that with your mother! but this is a different relationship about different things and he has different hooks in you which you will need to unpick one by one consciously or not and maybe you will let them all go in one hit when he does/says something that really makes you feel differently about it, or you will experience a change that will be the catalyst. If you behave differently it will affect him and he will react differently to it.

Just remember he tells lies, so you mustn't believe him! if someone's not on your side why would you listen even to things that might be the truth from someone like that? Listen to your friends and shut the other voices out.

and I don't think anyone here would expect you to be able to 'take in' whats going on for others when you are right in the midst feeling overwhelmed yourself.

Look after yourself and keep going. hugs. tea. biscuits, and everything you would want for YOURSELF :)

Hi Pony - there's no plan. I carry on day to day, and find ways to manage the fallout of it all. Maybe they will see things differently, maybe they won't and they will always try to batter us with 'their' view of things, but we are beginning to see glimmerings of light about whats really happening and maybe some day they will too????!!! until then I have to put up with abuse, the police are involved now (in a record keeping capacity as it is all logged anonymously and I always keep a minder witness with me).

Like me, friends believe that there is going to be a mighty 'happening' next. I have no idea what form that next thing will be, but I do feel v. protected by them all. There are many times I also feel vulnerable shaky and worried too, but as the saying goes 'keep calm & carry on' so I'm just sticking grimly doggedly to that.

ponygirl - two questions: 1. Did he say sorry? 2. Is this different therapy an abusers' program? Don't rush anything, will you? You've no obligation even to show him your reaction to what he says. [cuppa]

NSDH is still in hospital, it's the third day now and he's no better. Everyone's being sympathetic towards me and I'm struggling with my ambivalent feelings to the whole thing. Nobody (irl) understands how I feel. And it'd sound pretty heartless to be saying, "It's so peaceful at home with him out of it." It's emotionally quite draining.

But things could be a lot worse. The hospital's an hour's drive away, so I'm getting lots of time to enjoy the beautiful countryside round here!

I was so strong a week or two ago, and now it's just gone. I've got to pull myself together for some important work stuff including interviews. I know I will do it for that, and I have no choice. I just want to go of somewhere and have a breakdown.

I like the snow analogy. That's useful.

I just feel so small today, I just want someone to look after me. I haven't got anyone I can go to - I've exhausted everyone with this shit, and the ones that are really good friends are pregnant/have children. I want to go somewhere, climb in bed and stay there and recover. Hence why I want my mummy. And I can't.

Hey all. Charlotte, yes, he did say sorry, and has done before. He gets moments of insight, but they haven't previously lasted. No, it's not an abuser programme he's looking into - frustratingly there seem to be almost none running in Scotland that I can find out about, Respect only had one going on, miles away in Edinburgh. So he's looking into CBT.

Glad you're getting some respite at the moment with your other half being in hospital. Could you use this chance with him being out of the way to talk to someone in RL, tell them how you're dreading him coming out of hospital and things going back to normal?

Ana, I'm so sorry you're feeling so low at the moment. Be kind to yourself, maybe organise a nice treat like a massage or something. And if you have to have a duvet day from work, so be it, they'll cope for one day without you.
And remember that he's not right about you. He never was.

hilde, can't help with the books, not heard of any of them. Am a bit about the Relate ones though, like you say, he's missing the point rather! I've suggested to NSDH that he get the Beverley Engel book, as I have a copy and found it useful and it's got stuff in it for the abuser, so we'll see what he makes of that (if he gets it). Maybe I could buy it for him, now I'm so flush with cash!!! I won't though

heartoday thanks so much for your kind words. It's lovely to hear from the "normal world"!!

Ana the strength will come back, it's lows and highs, I'm finding that too. You are immensely valuable as a person - what he says is lies, always has been. He's self deluded and projecting his issues onto you. Keep trudging through the snow - the spring thaw will come (whoa with the analogies )

Oops gotta run to get dcs, but wanted to thank everyone for support. It didn't kick off last night, his going to bed 10 mins before Downton was his "signal" that it wouldn't - I am viewing flat this evening

Love and strength to all.

Oooooo, good luck with the flat, trying!

Thanks all. It's so good to have this space to rant. I feel much bette. Finished a presentation and I'm home and in bed. Also had a bit of a sob, I needed it. I'm going to look after myself tonight.

trying good luck with the flat viewing!

pleased to hear that you are feeling much better Ana. Hope you have a lovely rest.

and hope the flat is the perfect thing for you trying.